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A way to pass through the Xvart village without burning it to the ground

Syntia13Syntia13 Member Posts: 514
edited August 2012 in Feature Requests
A different thread in 'General' reminded me of one of the gripes I had with BG, and that is...
...the game seems to be OK with killing off entire villages as long as they are not human/elvish/halfling villages.

The most obvious example is, of course, the Xvart village. It blocks the only way to the upper portion of the map, and the only way to go through it is to slaughter the poor smurfs. My good and neutral CHARNAMEs are very indignant with that design! (And remember, you might be killing one of (Larry, Darryl & Darryl)'s mums!)

What I'd like to see is the Xvarts in the village to be neutral, and only become hostile if I enter their premises without permission. And getting the permission could be as simple as the Guards halting me at the gate, and then after a short dialog letting me through in exchange for small amount of cash, or doing a small quest for the village (getting a pot of honey for their pet bear, maybe? I'm sure there is a beehive south of the village - those bears aren't there without reason!).

This way people who don't give a squat about other sentient races, and/or play evil character, can still commit their ethnic cleanse, while more overthinking players can choose the peaceful solution without much hassle.

There is a precedence in BG1 - a patrol of gnolls halts you and demands that you pay a toll for passing through their land. If you refuse, they attack you, if you pay, they leave you well alone.
I usually pay, since it IS their land, and I'm trespassing. (Unless, of course, I'm playing a trigger-happy evil-doer).

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Comments

  • LoupLoup Member Posts: 1
    i agree completly; parts like this alwas feel like genocide

  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    @Syntia13

    Its actually not a patrol of gnolls, its a pair of ogrillons. They're actually just a pair of thugs extorting money off of travelers.

    XavioriaKen
  • BoasterBoaster Member Posts: 622
    Xvart village: is there no way to keep the peace?

    This is one thing, as it is with others, that people might like to option to have. Especialyl being able to enter into the Xvart village huts.

  • XavioriaXavioria Member Posts: 874
    It's been a gripe of mine too. Sometimes I like killing them, and sometimes I feel like I'm wrong... like... holocaust wrong... Not only that, but the xvarts are obviously sentient enough to point the finger and call you evil for running through and burning their village to the ground.

    Now... that elven salesman off to the left... I ALWAYS enjoyed killing that con artist a**hole... selling me cursed items... FOR SHAME

  • g314g314 Member Posts: 201
    I always CLUAConsole and teleport away from there because I just don't want to slaughter them, unless they attack me first like in other areas. I'd like a small quest to get free access to their village with more or less the same XP amount of killing them all...

    alnair
  • GrandeCGrandeC Member Posts: 26
    edited August 2012
    @Tanthalas Both of you are correct. Check this link, Tanthalas, for information on the Toll-collecting Gnoll. http://www.gamebanshee.com/baldursgate/locations/ar5200.php

    TanthalasMoomintroll
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
  • Syntia13Syntia13 Member Posts: 514
    @GrandeC and @Tanthalas
    Those are the guys I meant, thanks for backing me, GrandeC! :)
    But I also remember those ogrillon guys, they were blocking the bridge leading to Gnoll fortress, correct? I always found them fishy, as they were out of place ('tis no ogrillon land!) and the sum they demanded was considerably higher than what the gnolls wanted. My treatment of them usually depended on combination of 1) my financial situation, 2) how my PC felt about non-humans, 3) flip of a coin. :P

    GrandeC
  • KouTheMadKouTheMad Member Posts: 77
    i don't wanna destroy a entire village, thats wrong.

    now if i'm playing a evil git, then yes, murder the lot of them, but i want the CHOICE to do it, its not evil if i have no choice in the matter.

    GrandeC
  • cOgcOg Member Posts: 6
    I agree with the OP! ...but is this viable for addition to the game? (Unfortunately, I'm afraid it may not be)

  • Excalibur_2102Excalibur_2102 Member Posts: 351
    remember this thing about not being able to mess with old content too much? Unfortunately I think this would be a breach of contract, even if it is easy to do :/

    XavioriaFlashburn
  • GemHoundGemHound Member Posts: 801
    Guys, are you going to let the menace of the local farmers live? I'm against this since the people of the area fight them as well. Look at the map North of the Carnival, they surrounded a poor farmer's last cow and were chopping it to bits.

  • Syntia13Syntia13 Member Posts: 514
    @GemHound
    GemHound said:

    Guys, are you going to let the menace of the local farmers live? I'm against this since the people of the area fight them as well. Look at the map North of the Carnival, they surrounded a poor farmer's last cow and were chopping it to bits.

    That is a good point, and my response to it is: I kill those buggers every time, and feel like a god if I manage to save the cow. Because in that particular case, Xvarts are in the wrong. But I still want an option to pass through Xvart village peacefully. Remember that there are also a few hundred of human bandits all around the Sword Coast, attacking everything that moves - and yet it would be wrong to kill every human in Nashkeel or Beregost to eliminate the menace.
    I won't even go into the whole good or evil debate, as it gives me a headache - Xvarts are identified by the game as evil, so technically, killing them is good deed. Still, killing without provocation or reasons beyond 'they were in my way' is something an evil character would do. So is destroying the village good, or evil square? Would letting them live be evil, because they are evil, or would it be good, because I am good and I won't be dragged down to their level? I don't know.
    But I want my CHARNAMEs to have the option to choose accordingly with their believes, rather than have to a) kill them b) avoid the area.

    GrandeCOssiaNGrammarsaladArtona
  • XavioriaXavioria Member Posts: 874
    I'd love to befriend the smurfs... could be interesting if they had a merchant or something that sells things that no one else sells. Even if it is small and somewhat useless, I still think it would be interesting.

    This is one example though, and I think that this game needs more good/evil balance in it so that power gamers don't always choose the good choices (because it seems like this game is more based around being good)

    franco
  • KenKen Member Posts: 226
    I like the lesson you got when he met you, you learned that other "monsters" might not be evil per se

  • KenKen Member Posts: 226
    Think I used that term wrong

  • Space_hamsterSpace_hamster Member Posts: 950
    Look, if you're a wimp, or harbor pacifist tendencies, just do what other cowards do, turn yourself invisible and sneak by.

  • AliteriAliteri Member Posts: 308
    @Syntia13

    I know I'll probably sound negative here, but I think its interesting that the game managed to manipulate some people into NOT rampaging through the Xvart village.

    I mean sure, we own that to preconceived outlooks on the story (denial of moral determinism and the belief that even smurf lives are sacred) but then, that would all be more or less pointless if you aren't inconvenienced at all.

    I don't know, its always interesting when the player acts against the expected.

    artificial_sunlight
  • SilenceSilence Member Posts: 437
    I agree; I like having a way around combat sometimes. I felt so bad for the totally outmatched Xvarts. I don't really get why they had to attack me anyway if I was just passing through. Doesn't the bear they summon go hostile on their leader, too? It was all so very sad and pointless.

  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    In the Pen and Paper game Fiend Folio (the origin of Xvarts, they are said to be chaotic and evil, and enjoy ransom, torture and both... There was also an Xvart Deity, Raxivort, who originally served the Demon Graz'zt as "Master of Slaves" before trying to kill his master and take over the plane. The two fought, neither could prevail, so Raxivort sued for peace, stole most of Graz'zt's treasure and went to the plane of Pandemonium, where he now lives. His teachings to Xvarts is to use any means, even lie, to overcome your foes, and if you can't overwhelm them, retreat and return with reinforcements.

    MoomintrollCerevanttbone1
  • SilenceSilence Member Posts: 437
    edited August 2012
    Well in this case they should have retreated, lol. I haven't heard of Fiend Folio in a long time. Wow...takes me back. Reminds me of the original Temple of Elemental Evil and Oriental Adventures packages....I didn't know the Xvarts were from there.

    Xavioriatbone1
  • GemHoundGemHound Member Posts: 801
    edited August 2012
    Syntia13 said:

    @GemHound

    GemHound said:

    Guys, are you going to let the menace of the local farmers live? I'm against this since the people of the area fight them as well. Look at the map North of the Carnival, they surrounded a poor farmer's last cow and were chopping it to bits.

    That is a good point, and my response to it is: I kill those buggers every time, and feel like a god if I manage to save the cow. Because in that particular case, Xvarts are in the wrong. But I still want an option to pass through Xvart village peacefully. Remember that there are also a few hundred of human bandits all around the Sword Coast, attacking everything that moves - and yet it would be wrong to kill every human in Nashkeel or Beregost to eliminate the menace.
    Didn't the text state that they had been raiding every farm around Nashkel and that several bands were doing it? Didn't it also say something about the Xvart bandits having a base of operations? You are not slaughtering innocents and if you are, by roleplaying, you would have ample proof against them, it's a big Xvart village in the region.

  • SirK8SirK8 Member Posts: 527
    I would feel bad about slaughtering a whole village, except... my party was just passing through and tried to explain that, but to no avail. A bunch of suicidal Xvarts kept throwing themselves on my blade, and my companions had no choice but to open fire and do the best they could to keep the hordes from overwhelming us. I did feel a bit bad about killing the bear they called to help them, since I don't normally go around slaughtering forest creatures for the sake of doing so. But again, we weren't the aggressors.

    Should there be an option to pass through peacefully? Maybe not necessarily so.. what if they don't want your group to pass through peacefully... though it would be nice to maybe avoid combat by leaving after they threaten you or maybe intimidating them into letting you pass through, etc.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,303
    edited August 2012
    I was going to say sanctuary everyone in your party but I remembered its a spell you only cast on yourself.

    I have no idea. You probably could get away with using invisibility on everyone, assuming you buy it and have enough mages at a high enough level to use it.

  • Roller12Roller12 Member Posts: 437
    some races are just incompatible, But i guess with bg2 spells it will not be an issue, lvl3 mage spell invisibility 10"

  • MooseChangerPatMooseChangerPat Member Posts: 148
    I'm pretty sure the Xvarts are just so evil that they don't even bother negotiating with people trying to enter their village. Heck I'm pretty sure that even if there weren't a village there, and just a ton of xvarts, they'd still try to kill you just because that's what xvarts do. You aren't killing their children or anything like that, and they foolishly attack you just because they can. You aren't the aggressor in this situation, the xvarts are, just because you exist. You may think of it as genocide, but I think of it as self defense against a horde or rampaging psychopathic killers. And if it makes you feel better, use a bunch of sleep spells with a mage with the ring of wizardry, and just walk by them as they snooze. Personally, I kill them every time and they keep coming back every time I visit, so obviously it's not genocide as it's not even like you can go burn the village to the ground.

  • MoomintrollMoomintroll Member Posts: 1,496
    You can just avoid the Xvart village altogether.

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