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Why the code changes?

KenyonKenyon Member Posts: 142
edited August 2012 in Archive (General Discussion)
I'm not a programmer or modder, so perhaps someone can enlighten me. You hear the team struggling with the apparently horrible source code of the original, to clean everything up. That's where a lot of their time is going right now. My question is, why? It's not like the game can run much faster on present day computers. What's the advantage for consumers?
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Comments

  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,643
    I think it has something to do with the old code being very restrictive to changes that modders want to do. Supposedly they're changing the code to make it more mod friendly. I think that's at least partly the reason. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
  • Ulfgar_TorunnUlfgar_Torunn Member Posts: 169
    Moddability. Fewer crashes. Less broken scripting. Resolution and platform flexibility.

    The benefit will be minor at first, but if the team makes good on their promise to release numerous and interesting DLC, these changes will facilitate production of new content.
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,438
    Porting an engine to new platforms is a lot easier with cleaner code.
  • immagikmanimmagikman Member Posts: 664
    Bad code, and rushed hacks are good to clean up, having clean code benefits everyone that wants to see mods and add ons to follow. It's like having a Ferarri......you wouldn't let it sit covered in mud and muck.
  • KenyonKenyon Member Posts: 142
    All good points. :)
  • jcomptonjcompton Member Posts: 157
    And even for Windows, installing and playing IE games on newer hardware and post-XP operating systems has been a hit-or-miss affair. Modernizing should buy us more time.
  • KenyonKenyon Member Posts: 142
    @jcompton Are you Jason from Pocketplane?
  • jcomptonjcompton Member Posts: 157
    Yes. I certainly hope nobody else would be ridiculous enough to use American Hero Kelsey as his forum portrait.
  • SceptenarSceptenar Member Posts: 606
    Cleaning up the code makes it a lot easier when you want to add new content.
  • The_Guilty_PartyThe_Guilty_Party Member Posts: 44
    When you're the one responsible for fixing it when it's broken because you just sold it to 100,000 people, you are inclined to make sure the code is understandable, fixable, and doesn't do cheap hacks that 'should probably work fine'.
  • ZeckulZeckul Member Posts: 1,036
    edited August 2012
    1) They want to port the game to new platforms, but BG1 was coded specifically for Windows.
    2) They want the UI to scale to multiple resolutions, but it was hardcoded for a few, specific, low resolutions. -> complete re-code of the UI
    3) They want multiplayer to work across all modern operating systems, but it was coded for a technology that was Windows-specific and isn't even supported anymore
    4) They want to fix long-standing engine bugs
    5) They want to create a solid, clean base on which to build potentially several future titles, but the original code base is a mess

    More generally speaking, a game = code + assets. Changing content often only requires adding and editing assets, but most functionality - simulating, drawing, playing sound, synchronizing, saving, analyzing, etc, requires code changes.
  • wissenschaftwissenschaft Member Posts: 229
    edited August 2012
    Being a programmer myself, the #1 reason to rewrite code is simply to be able to read it. If you read the devs complaints about the code their number one complaint is that they can't figure out what asset is being use where. Having dealt with messy code I know their pain. Rewriting messy code is EXTREMELY tedious and time consuming.
    Post edited by wissenschaft on
  • MuninMunin Member Posts: 95
    I got a new computer early this year before I knew anything about BG:EE. It was time. But I did buy a new 32" screen for the man cave when I heard the news. I would have went bigger but my cave is kinda cramped. I was still using a 15 year old tube TV and an old 14" computer monitor. I am certainly not a programmer but I can tell you what I care about. I wanna see the improved graphics, in style. Make it so and I will be smiling!
  • DavidWDavidW Member Posts: 823
    As someone whose mods sometimes make the game lag noticeably, I'm quite excited about the possibility of a recoding that makes the engine more efficient on modern computers.
  • MuninMunin Member Posts: 95
    @DavidW Does your dad play BG? In the real world, which I unfortunately visit from time to time, my son's name is David, last initial W. The little cleric is 9 times zones away. If he is posting here when he could be messaging the old man I have an Agannazar's Scorcher waiting for his butt when he gets home!
  • pklooppkloop Member Posts: 113
    A nice clean code would make EE'ing the rest of the games fairly quick and easier I would imagine. Plus making it easier for modding brings in more fans and tons of new modders while making it even easier for the guys that have been modding since the beggining..

    While I can't mod my way out of a box I'm sure happy that lots of people can! Many thanks to the modders out there that have taken the time to put up some great content..further my enjoyment of the series!
    Hope this EE helps y'all out even more..here's to hoping we get 'em all EE'ed BG, IWD, PS, PoR:RoMD, ToEE..

    As to that last one, if anybody hasn't, buy it from GOG and go get the Circle of Eight mod pack..its really a great game when it actually runs :-)
  • JamesJames Member Posts: 110
    Munin said:

    @DavidW Does your dad play BG? In the real world, which I unfortunately visit from time to time, my son's name is David, last initial W. The little cleric is 9 times zones away. If he is posting here when he could be messaging the old man I have an Agannazar's Scorcher waiting for his butt when he gets home!

    If your son wrote the sword coast stratagems (SCS) mods you can probably cut him some slack
  • CoM_SolaufeinCoM_Solaufein Member Posts: 2,607
    edited August 2012
    They want to make as much money off you people as they can which is why they are making it for Apple products and their various I stuff.
    Post edited by CoM_Solaufein on
  • MuninMunin Member Posts: 95
    @James. Pardon my offbeat sense of humor. It's probably 1 in a million it is actually my son, but if it's him I hope he got a good laugh. My post was factually correct with the following exceptions.

    My son isn't a cleric.

    In the real world my spell casting leaves a little to be desired.

    I would actually cut him lots of slack. He's the one who clued me in about BG:EE so I am forever in his debt.
  • DavidWDavidW Member Posts: 823
    Not me, sorry!
  • lansounetlansounet Member Posts: 1,182
    Someone is trying to avoid a spanking
  • NathanNathan Member Posts: 1,007
    Kenyon said:

    I'm not a programmer or modder, so perhaps someone can enlighten me. You hear the team struggling with the apparently horrible source code of the original, to clean everything up. That's where a lot of their time is going right now. My question is, why? It's not like the game can run much faster on present day computers. What's the advantage for consumers?

    Actually... you'll be (pleasantly, I hope) shocked when you get a chance to run both games side-by-side. The game with some tightening up can (and is!) running much more quickly and efficiently. =)
  • immagikmanimmagikman Member Posts: 664
    edited August 2012
    CoM_Solaufein said:

    They want to make as much money off you people as they can which is why they are making it for Apple products and their various I stuff.

    Just out of curiosity....as a company.....should they NOT be trying to make as much money as they can?

    If the answer to that is yes.....I have to ask, would you go to your employer ask him to pay you less than you would otherwise be paid? because it is the same thing.

  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    If they need the old game for the Mac, I still have my Mac disks floating around here.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    immagikman said:

    CoM_Solaufein said:

    They want to make as much money off you people as they can which is why they are making it for Apple products and their various I stuff.

    Just out of curiosity....as a company.....should they NOT be trying to make as much money as they can?

    If the answer to that is yes.....I have to ask, would you go to your employer ask him to pay you less than you would otherwise be paid? because it is the same thing.

    Bingo. The primary purpose of a business enterprise is to make profit. That's how jobs get created and employees get paid wages. It's um... kind of crucial to our economy and tremendous quality of life, lol. (Just speaking of the most basic reason-for-being of capitalism here, leaving it's negatives aside.) CoM_Solaufein may just be making an observation, it's not necessarily a criticism. But there are plenty of folks who truly do not understand this.
  • DavidWDavidW Member Posts: 823
    CamDawg said:

    Nathan said:

    Actually... you'll be (pleasantly, I hope) shocked when you get a chance to run both games side-by-side. The game with some tightening up can (and is!) running much more quickly and efficiently. =)

    Oh yeah. I'm so used to changing areas or saving and waiting for the little loading screen--in the beta these are near-instantaneous. If it wasn't for a bit of green text in the battle window there are times I would swear I hadn't hit the save button.

    Can I expect it to run my stupid-long scripts more quickly?
  • WardWard Member Posts: 1,305
    Original code:

    Point A --------- Point B (cannot find, skip to Point C) --------- Point C

    Enhanced code:

    Point A - Point B - Point C
  • MedillenMedillen Member Posts: 632
    edited August 2012
    @Nathan for those who can't have that chance, please try to provide us such a video ;) It may even come as a good publicity on baldursgate.com (just saying ! and doesn)
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,438
    DavidW said:

    CamDawg said:

    Nathan said:

    Actually... you'll be (pleasantly, I hope) shocked when you get a chance to run both games side-by-side. The game with some tightening up can (and is!) running much more quickly and efficiently. =)

    Oh yeah. I'm so used to changing areas or saving and waiting for the little loading screen--in the beta these are near-instantaneous. If it wasn't for a bit of green text in the battle window there are times I would swear I hadn't hit the save button.

    Can I expect it to run my stupid-long scripts more quickly?
    Oh, if you only had some kind of "in" who could hook you up with access to see for yourself.

    Seriously, join the dark side beta. We have cake.
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