What is the point of race-class restrictions?
taltamir
Member Posts: 288
How would it unbalance the game if I play a gnome necromancer?
Why can't I be a human and multiclass?
Are you telling me no elf in the history of ever has ever retrained (aka dual classed)?
As far as I can tell the race class restrictions are completely arbitrary fluff that unnecessarily restricts roleplaying. But I haven't seen a mod make them all go away.
Also most of those functions are not reported to the player when he is choosing a race in new character creation.
Please beamdog, give us an official mod that does away with those silly restrictions. (or unhardcode those restrictions so that we could easily mod it ourselves)
Why can't I be a human and multiclass?
Are you telling me no elf in the history of ever has ever retrained (aka dual classed)?
As far as I can tell the race class restrictions are completely arbitrary fluff that unnecessarily restricts roleplaying. But I haven't seen a mod make them all go away.
Also most of those functions are not reported to the player when he is choosing a race in new character creation.
Please beamdog, give us an official mod that does away with those silly restrictions. (or unhardcode those restrictions so that we could easily mod it ourselves)
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Comments
I think its nice to have the different races have different abilities and innate traits. And have access to different things and whatnot.
It's a nice bit of flavour to me.
Having everyone able to do everything, or be anything... seems kinda generic and boring to me.
How does allowing a gnome to be a necromancer make the game more boring? What balance? I am serious, how does racial class restrictions affect balance?
PS. note that I didn't ask for the default behavior to change but for there to be an official mod or a toggle for this behavior. Or even just unhardcode it so we could mod it ourselves
I have a personal bias against dropping race/class restrictions because as much as I miss some combinations (why can Elves be Thieves but not Bards? Why can Halflings be Thieves or Clerics but not Thief/Clerics?), IMHO some combinations have to rearrange game conventions to the point where it gets ridiculous. And of course that's totally subjective, but...
I'm gonna stop writing before I start getting flashbacks of my PnP games with Halfling Monks and Sorcerers.
In game balance wise, a necromancer is more powerful offensively than an illusionist, he can do massive amounts of pure magical damage with skull trap, horrid wilting, can create undead minions and can snuff lives with death spells, etc. An illusionist is more defense oriented with invisibility and mirror image. Gnomes get awesome saving throw bonuses, which go well with illusionist. If a gnome is a necromancer he will have both good offensive spells and good saving throws. A power gamer would never choose a human necromancer when he can choose a gnome one. But now if you want the dread power of necromancy you need to choose a race with worse saving throws, which balances things out a bit. A gnome illusionist is not much weaker against a human necromancer because the gnome has better save vs spells to resist the necromancer's vile magics.
Illusionists can't use evocation/abjuration/Necromancy, due to their heavy focus on illusions leaving them lacking in areas of study on that end of the spectrum. Abjuration and Necromancy require a strong will/spirit to master, while evocation is stressful on the body. Generalists or Specialists whose schools are close to that end of table develop the needed physical/mental pre-reqs and can learn those spells, but lack the extra conditioning a specialist of that school would have, making their spells less effective.
(And for the record, Illusion is the single strongest school in DnD, though Alteration is a close 2nd due to it's sheer versatility of effects. Sadly, BG royally $%#^ed them both, and indirectly %^$&ed Enchantment as well, since Enchanters could use the same spell illusionists could to replicate necromactic/evocation effects)
Illusionists have no qualms at all about using necromancy, they're simply lacking in the strength of will to make it work for real. Necromancy requires them to channel power from spirits or the underworld, and requires a strong-iron will to avoid being utterly consumed by losing control of that power. Generalists have enough to get the job done, but lack strength of spirit to enforce their will to the degree a Necromancer can, resulting in less effect.
Illusionists however excel at being free-willed and imaginative, since it allows their illusions to feel more organic and real. That's not to say that they can't use necromancy....several medium or high level illusions can replicate almost any spell effect (albeit not at 100% power) as long as the target believes it's real.
Gnomes become illusionists because they have a natural aptitude towards illusion magic due to their endless curiosity, boundless imaginations, and ADHD tendencies. This automatically puts them on the track Illusionist since they are literally incapable to using evocation, necromancy, or abjuration effectively, and deem it too much effort to even try and just go with what works for them.
Now most elves on the other hand do have cultural beliefs that limit which specializations they will work towards. Most things they feel are better left to clerics and druids.
Race bonuses are nice but in no way required even when power gaming.
And considering charnames background, limitations on class / race makes imo absolutely no sense at all.
And there are much stranger (legal) class choices for someone who lived in candlekeep then say a dwarven paladin.
There are some restrictions I really don't understand, like elves not being able to be druids. Aren't druids supposed to be defenders of nature or whatnot? And elves are the race that have the closest connection to nature aren't they? If anything, druids could be restricted to elves and half-elves only, imo.
Anyway, if humans where the only ones who could dual-class, that would be a big enough incentive for me to play human, since pretty much all non-caster classes reach their peak after level 10. Which is why it's better to dual-class into a another class at that point as opposed to being a multi-class and being forced to keep leveling the warrior of thief class you're multied with. Most of the racial bonuses like being immune/resistant to sleep is pretty much negligible just some short ways into BG since enemies won't use such spells much and eventually everyone will be pretty much immune to the Sleep spell anyway.
Also remember, many human DMs would change that restriction anyway, but BG will follow the core rules.
Unless ofc whatever entity is giving druids their power only gives it exclusively humans (and maybe some other race, can't remember since I never play druid).
On a similar note, halflings can both access the Leaftender priest kit and the druid class if I remember correctly.
Jaheira is a half elf fighter/druid Great news
i think the reason why say halflings cant be monks say is because punching someone in the shin isnt going to do that much damage in the grand scheme of things compared to a roundhouse to the face from taller characters. and if you think about the race more than the class the restrictions make sense, yes there are exceptions but in the elves case its a well known fact that elves are frail in one way or another (to factor in some elves constitution bonus) and again if my hungover memory serves me correctly, looking at all the elven subraces if they are not weak in constitution its in strength so it make sense for them to go down the magic, theif, ranger route that and their interest in magic is a good reason for many to become mages. humans "advantage" is their variability and thats the reason why they can be any class. dwarves like them or hate them (i personally enjoy playing a dwarf) are a more practical race, they have a large numbers of laws, they are good crafters and prefere to do things physically which makes them go down the fighter, theif route (though dwarvern honour in some clans may prevent being a theif thats up to how you roleplay)
half orcs are special because its a coinflip between following your orc blood and becoming a fighter or your human blood in becoming a rouge etc etc, how ever becuase half orcs are often shunned in human lands they go fighter anyway becuase....they have their orcish strength why not use it?.
this can be said for every race, they have their advantages why not use them? why wouldnt a elf go a more dexterous path, why wouldnt a dwarf go down a fighters path? becuase they are naturally good at it
Elves featured in the stories were stealthy warriors, or very rarely full wizards (such as Galadriel), but they all had a certain touch with nature and its magics - hence the original D&D elf class being a fighter/mage. Dwarves were usually warriors, sometimes thieves, while halflings were nearly always thieves but occasionally fighters as well, and therefore this holds true in the game too. Humans were the only race to be able to be anything because, well, humans were the only race that would show up in all stories and could hold any role or archetype. We're humans so we like to favor them, after all.
It's only the third edition where these rules started to break down, mostly thanks to changing times: modern thinking and racial equality had changed us, made us think that maybe all those elves and dwarves and stuff weren't so mysterious after all, and should be explored further. Making them more equal gave them more class options as well, and these days anyone can be anyone: you're no longer defined by what you're born as, but rather what you do with your life.
And the rule book never says no, just to say no. It was carefully designed to create a Tolkien themed world. The restrictions all play into that.
Every PNP game takes its own liberties with those core rules (even the official, published settings do so), but BG mostly follows the core rules.