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Question about Invoker

I am a total noob to Baldur's Gate and D&D for that matter, but nonetheless have decided to start with an Invoker due to the offensive magic - even though I know it's the most restricted of the Wizard classes (don't care, it's simple).

I rolled a 95 and here is how I allocated my stats:

Strength 12
Dexterity 16
Constitution 16
Intelligence 18
Wisdom 18
Charisma 15

That is probably wrong but will it work? I would hate to reroll.

Lastly, and the purpose of this thread, is what is the deal with Constitution being the primary roll stat? I was under the impression that Intelligence was the primary stat, yet when rolling it's constitution that can't go below 16... Can someone clear this up?

Comments

  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    It's a fine, though not quite optimal stat allocation. 16 CON is the minimum for Invokers if memory serves, it's just an added minimum stat for that particular mage specialization. 18 DEX would have been great, but not necessarily required. 18 WIS is only going to be useful for lore checks (which aren't a big deal) and Wish castings (not an issue until BG2).
  • StormvesselStormvessel Member Posts: 654
    Madhax said:

    It's a fine, though not quite optimal stat allocation. 16 CON is the minimum for Invokers if memory serves, it's just an added minimum stat for that particular mage specialization. 18 DEX would have been great, but not necessarily required. 18 WIS is only going to be useful for lore checks (which aren't a big deal) and Wish castings (not an issue until BG2).

    Thanks a lot - I decided to reroll after all. I got to thinking that perhaps Mage is too squishy for someone who knows absolutely nothing, and I mean NOTHING about Baldur's Gate or D&D based RPGs in general.

    Probably going to go with a plain old fighter until I understand the mechanics better. Fighter with high strength, dex, and constitution.
  • JLeeJLee Member Posts: 650
    My best advice is to get into your character, save often and with more than one slot, get into the story, and refuse the temptation to powergame or always worry about what's "best."

    Having said that, melee types are probably the easiest entry points to the game. Ranged attacks are nice and nuking enemies with spells isn't always the best choice for early stage mages. Crowd control spells, like sleep and blindness, are bread and butter til at least mid-game.

    Did I mention save often ;)
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited October 2013
    It's a fluff thing.

    Conjuration and Evocation require channeling higher concentrations of magical energy to truly master those spells, which is harder on the body, thus they require a stronger constitution then other types of mages.

    Alteration and illusion require more finesse to help get the small details exactly correct which makes them more effective.

    A enchanters require a natural talent for enforcing their will on others, represented by a high charisma.

    Diviners, Necromancers, or Abjurers, require the greater insight or willpower/focus high wisdom brings.


    Casting spells requires certain levels of conditioning to do which generalist mages learn enough to get by, which isn't directly to a stat value in most cases. However, specialists require a certain minimum to develop the required level of conditioning for mastery of a school, but as a cost they must sacrifice condition themselves to cast to spells on the other side of the chart making them unable to cast those spells.

    Intelligence is of 2ndry concern to a specialist and only limits how complicated of spells they can prepare, based on spell level. It also makes it easier for them to successful scribe spells. (Int: 9= Up to 4th, 10-11 =5th, 12-13=6th, 14-15=7th, 16-17=8th, 18-19=9th, 20+=10th).

    Int is only a prime stat in the parlance of that you need a minimum of 9 to be a mage, and 17 to dual-class into one, or 15 to dual-class out of one.

    (technically 10th can be learned with 18 int, but suffers a massive penalty (doubles the prep-time required and has a flat 20% failure chance for 18, 10% for 19) to preparation success until 20+)

    ---------------------------------------------------------

    The only problem though is that divination and conjuration seem to be on the wrong sides of the chart.

    Conjuration is a high Con requirement, wedged between high Cha and Wisdom, while Divination is a high wis requirement wedged between Con and Dex.

    Flipping them on the table would make a much more natural progression, though it would change Conjuration's opposed schools to Greater Div/Abjuration, and Evocation to Enchantment/Illusion.

    (Evocation is next to necromancy which means it's complimentary to wisdom based schools, and thus cannot lose greater divination)

    (Conjuration on the other hand has a deficiency in the area of willpower and insight and so would lose abjuration. Conjuration does require making pacts with the creatures they summon, rather then the ones they conjure, so at least some focus on personal charisma is required thus they can't lose enchantment. While the lack of Dismissal and Banishment seems a bit odd, Conjuration does include the ability to dismiss most kinds of summoned or conjured creatures, though their dismissal spells are more specific to type and less general purpose then Abjuration's are).
    Post edited by ZanathKariashi on
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    edited October 2013
    Regarding stats, if you're going for the optimum then try and max dexterity on just about any character as it gives solid boosts to armor class and ranged to-hit rolls. Constitution of 16 for non-fighters and 18 for fighters, barbarians, rangers, and paladins is a good idea to minimise squishyness.

    Wisdom isn't very useful unless you're a cleric or druid, and even then it's not the be-all-and-end-all. You can raise your wisdom by 3 points in BG1, so it becomes even less important to have a high starting value.

    If you want a character with good survivability that is easy to play then fighter-types are good. Cavalier (a paladin kit) gives immunity to charm and poison which can be a headache in the early game but cannot use ranged weapons. Unkitted rangers are also a good beginner class, as they are easy to get good rolls for as well as having lots of nice extras like the ability to stealth and eventually spellcasting.

    If you want to experiment with a caster then multiclass fighter/clerics or fighter/mages give you a degree of resilience as well as being pretty powerful.
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    I wouldn't worry about the 16 dex; there is an early game item mages can wear that brings dex to 18, and there is also a tome later to permanently gain +1 dex (if you are planning ahead for BG2, this will carry over).

    17 dex isn't shabby. As a mage, you'll stay away from the frontline anyway (so the AC bonus isn't to worry about - there are items to improve your AC vs. missile attacks) and you won't be the main damage dealer with any ranged weapon either way. Darts or sling won't matter once you do damage by spells; until then, let the meatshield NPCs do the melee and support them with Sleep, Glitterdust, Blindness and Horror.
  • StormvesselStormvessel Member Posts: 654
    edited October 2013
    I rerolled, so I guess my original question is null and void. Nonetheless, thanks so much for the answers and I will be sure and reference this thread in the future when I do decide to roll a Wizard class.

    I do have one more question, so rather than create a new discussion I will post it here.

    I chose Cavalier for my first time class, and lucked out on the roll. I rolled a 97 and here are my stats (I know the roll is excellent but it's my allocation of stats I worry about - particularly in regards to Con, Int, and Wis):

    Str 18/94
    Dx 18
    Cn 18
    Int 11 (gave it 1 point because I read that an enemy in BG2 can give low int problems)
    Ws 14
    Ch 18

    I assume the allocation is right? I assume 11 Int and only 14 Wis will be okay or should I take stats from dx or con - does Pally benefit from over 16 Con (as well as Fighter)?

    Lastly, I chose two handed weapons and two handed fighting style (two points in each).

    Will this build work?
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    @Stormvessel: That is a very good allocation of stats, and you have nothing to worry about. Paladin's get Cleric spells but they gain no bonus spells from Wisdom (unlike Clerics and Druids), so 14 is completely okay, and you don't need Intelligence at all, but 11 is a good number because of the enemies you mention.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited October 2013
    Thats a phenomenal roll. Paladin benefits from over 16 con. The intelligence is excellent (for the reasons you mentioned).

    Two-Handed Sword/Two-Handed Weapon style are both solid options for a Paladin.
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    That's pretty much the class, roll and weapon choice I completed BG:EE with first time through. Good luck @Stormvessel, and have fun.

    If you need a quick reference source, try these websites:
    http://playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur's_Gate
    http://gamebanshee.com/baldursgate/ & http://gamebanshee.com/baldursgateii/

    Playithardcore has a good rundown of tips, tricks, assessments of party members, classes, stats. Just about everything really.
    Gamebanshee is a very useful reference for spells, items, areas, and has walkthroughs if you get stuck on stuff.
  • StormvesselStormvessel Member Posts: 654
    Wow! Thanks a lot guys! I really appreciate the help and I am having a blast so far.

    So glad to see it's going to work out. I am plum sick of rolling - spent so long doing it that when I close my eyes all I see are those three buttons and flashing numbers - I'm definitely sticking with this Pally, lol.
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    That's an excellent roll, as others mentioned, your strength is near maximum which is 18/100 (18/00) and is very difficult to get, but your other stats are excellent so you don't need to reroll.

    FYI, the game is perfectly playable and finishable with less than perfect stats rolled. Stat boosting items aside, it is more fun for some people to play a not-so-super stats character and make it through. Weaknesses and deficiencies make up for excellent characterisation and roleplaying as well. When I think about it, an all 18s fighter character looks like Rambo or Arnold Schw. in his old movies, all tough and muscle and near invincible. I much enjoy a more believable character like Bruce Willis in the first Die Hard movie, a few 16s and 17s here and there, he is no hulking warrior with biceps like melons and yet he still pulls through, with teeth and claw. Err, I tend to ramble-getting off topic.

    If this is your first playthrough, perfect stats will make the game easier and much more enjoyable for you, that's for sure. Go for it! And have fun.
  • StormvesselStormvessel Member Posts: 654
    Thanks a lot. I am enjoying it - I am seconds away from departing Friendly Farm Inn for Nashkel (could probably be further along by now but I have this thing about exploring 100% of all playable areas - holdover habit from Diablo. Speaking of which, I know I haven't played this very long, but already I feel as though I could throw rocks at Diablo after just a small taste of Baldur's Gate.

    My only complaint so far is the party formation and moving. Everytime I click on the map they stop for a split sec - no big deal but annoying after a while. The pathfinding of NPCs is a little off, and it takes too long for my party to form up. These things could just be due to inexperience on my part, so I thought I would throw them out there in hopes of a possibly solution.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited October 2013

    Thanks a lot. I am enjoying it - I am seconds away from departing Friendly Farm Inn for Nashkel (could probably be further along by now but I have this thing about exploring 100% of all playable areas - holdover habit from Diablo. Speaking of which, I know I haven't played this very long, but already I feel as though I could throw rocks at Diablo after just a small taste of Baldur's Gate.

    My only complaint so far is the party formation and moving. Everytime I click on the map they stop for a split sec - no big deal but annoying after a while. The pathfinding of NPCs is a little off, and it takes too long for my party to form up. These things could just be due to inexperience on my part, so I thought I would throw them out there in hopes of a possibly solution.

    The devs did considering fixing pathfinding but as I recall it became a situation where trying to fix it caused too many problems (problems not necessarily just related to pathfinding either).
  • StormvesselStormvessel Member Posts: 654
    It's not so bad that the game is unplayable. I am still having a great time.
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    If you shift-click to move you can set waypoints that your party will follow, so you can choose your route rather than leave it to the AI.
  • StormvesselStormvessel Member Posts: 654
    Wow. Thanks Corvino!
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