Speed factor & movement before/after attacking within round? Also, backstabbing

Comments

• EyeStalk Member Posts: 4

  November 2013

  AS I REMEMBER this from book-style AD&D, a character can close and attack in 1 round, or drink a potion, or cast a spell, or fire missile weapons or move at the maximum movement rate. *When* the action occurs is based on Initiative (which is a die roll with any modifiers) and the weapon speed/ casting time, which is added to the number of the initiative die roll. Modifiers to initiative are factors such as: dexterity bonus, on higher ground, surprised enemy, attacking from behind, size difference, etc.
  
  So, a 1 rolled for initiative means that character goes first, a weapon speed of 8 means his action takes place in the 9th segment of a combat round. If he's up against an archer who rolled a 2 for initiative, the archer will get 1 shot in before the weapon attack, his second attack coming last in the round (I think). Daggers have a low speed (because they're small) so multiple back-stabs can be done.
  
  Melee weapon range is determined by weapon type: short bows don't have the draw weight so they don't shoot as far as long bows, compound bows hit harder than either because of the recurve, slings are somewhere in between, hurled weapons are based on strength, spears are longer than short swords and so on. You might be able to spear someone who has a dagger, but on their part of the attack round, they might choose to close, and so get an attack.
  
  Hope that's mostly accurate and helpful.

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• Real Member Posts: 68

  December 2013

  ou_deis said:

  I'm a little confused about how character movement between attacks relates to the round-based system, and how the "real-time" character animations relate to the text of what's actually happening. If a weapon has a low speed factor, but you only get 1 attack/round, does that mean you can strike and then move within the same round? Or move and then strike? Or do you just get to attack? (Same goes for spells like magic missile with low casting time.)

  As you suspected, real-time character animations don't accurately reflect when your character actually made an attack in the round. You might see poor Imoen swing a sword at at a giant tentacle monster 3 times by character animation when in reality she only made one strike - which likely would miss since she's a mage (you can turn on the feedback in options to see indications of when your character actually made an attempted attack in the game).
  
  As for moving and striking - I'm not clear on pen-and-paper D&D rules, but in-game, you can run around all day after you made your attacks in the round until the time has come for the next. This is perhaps most evident when you play a mage. Since one round last approximately 6 seconds and a mage can only start casting one spell every round (unless if you use some really high level spells to enhance this), you can basically cast one spell (e.g., magic missile) and then run away from melee opponents for the rest of that round before casting another spell in the next round just to kite.

  ou_deis said:

  Also, a low speed factor is supposed to be good for backstabbing. Is it just because you come out of the shadows as soon as the beginning of the turn when you're attacking or using an ability (like "poison weapon")---which can be mitigated by high enough hide-in-shadows / move-silently (which let you stay hidden longer after performing an action)? Or is it also that the target could move out of range?

  ^I'm not entirely sure about this myself. I've played a solo assassin previously, taking complete advantage of hit and run backstabs and I found backstabbing with a low speed-factor was far, far more easier than a stronger but lower speed factor weapon. Note that this was in the non-enhanced edition although I suspect things should remain the same.
  
  I speculate that if your opponent has a lower speed-factor than you do, you may actually expose yourself before even pulling off an attack. This is mere speculation, but this is based on my solo playthrough which I found that single-wielding a certain short-sword with 0 speedfactor gave me almost 100% backstab chance (provide I didnt miss of course) if I get behind an opponent from the shadows. On the other hand, if I used one of the most powerful longsword in the game to backstab (which have a higher speedfactor), the opponent pretty much sees me half the time before I can even strike them from the shadows.
  
  Also, as far as I know, the effects of hide-in-shadow and move-silently do not extend much beyond your chance of hiding and your chance of staying hidden when not doing anything else other than moving. Increasing it to godly levels do not mitigate how quickly you come out of the shadows after taking an action.
  
  On a side-note though, if you didn't already know this, you can use an ability and do an normal attack in the same round. So it's perfectly viable to poison your weapon and backstab with your assassin from the shadows, or for a fighter/mage, pull off a magic missile in the same round after you struck the enemy.

  ou_deis said:

  
  (On a related note: is melee weapon range just determined by whether it's two-handed or not? So spear and two-handed sword have the same "range"? Does it actually mean you can hit without being hit?)
  

  As mentioned, range is dependent on weapon type. Practically though, having a longer ranged weapon is only useful for being able to strike down enemies while being positioned behind your hopefuly, more beefier allies. In a straight up confrontation, the guy with, say, a halberd, probably won't be able to pull off a run and hit tactic against the guy with a shorter weapon due to the speedfactor differences.

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