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Blade's HLA

LathlaerLathlaer Member Posts: 475
in Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition
So I just gained enough levels to pick my first HLA and imagine my surprise when I didn't see Whirlwind there. I mean, sure, I could've checked earlier, but that is beside the point.

The fact is that Blade is described as flourishing fighting fencer. Hence the offensive and defensive spinns, hence possibility to pick 3 points in two weapon fighting.

But what do I see in her HLA? Spike Trap. Time Trap. Exploding Trap. She literally didn't set ONE set of snares during gameplay (how could she? it isn't even her class ability) and yet she suddenly has the ability to set most powerful traps in the game.

How come the Swashbuckler thief can have it (more or less the same concept but a thief kit) and Blade can't?

I am, of course, talking about normal Whirlwind. The Greater one was always exclusive for fighter classes.

Comments

  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,345
    I believe the Rogue Rebalancing mod gives whirlwind attack access to Blades, along with several other components generally considered to make thieves and bards more like what they should be.
  • egonegon Member Posts: 94
    Blades already have it in the form of Offensive Spin. At least thematically.
  • LathlaerLathlaer Member Posts: 475
    Shin said:

    I believe the Rogue Rebalancing mod gives whirlwind attack access to Blades, along with several other components generally considered to make thieves and bards more like what they should be.

    Thank you. Exactly what I was looking for :)

  • MaylanderMaylander Member Posts: 74
    It's not needed though, as Blades can cast Improved Haste. Traps are far more useful to them.
  • SouthpawSouthpaw Member Posts: 2,026
    Time Stop Trap + Offensive Spin = WIN

    (on the other hand
    Time Stop Trap + Offensive Spin + Dangerous Boss Immune to Timetrap = RUN BLADE RUN!)
  • ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 880
    UAI, Improved Bard Song, Spike Traps, and Time Stop Traps are all quite nice for blades.
  • MaylanderMaylander Member Posts: 74
    Southpaw said:

    Time Stop Trap + Offensive Spin = WIN

    (on the other hand
    Time Stop Trap + Offensive Spin + Dangerous Boss Immune to Timetrap = RUN BLADE RUN!)

    Heh, I tend to replay BG in "waves", and most of the time when I start a new wave I make that mistake when bumping into a certain demon in the pocket plane. It tends to lead to a very quick reload.
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    Thrasymachus said:

    UAI, Improved Bard Song, Spike Traps, and Time Stop Traps are all quite nice for blades.

    I don't think this is a post seeking a buff, but rather a player looking for thematic consistency. Nothing about a blade says "Trap-setter", yet they get the most powerful traps in the game arbitrarily at a high level. Offensive Spin is more fitting.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Plus, whirlwind attack would help keep the Blade as a viable melee combatant at a point where dual-wielding speed weapons starts to lose some effectiveness. The lack of extra attacks really starts to hurt in ToB, especially because it means improved haste doesn't have much to work with.
  • ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 880
    Whirlwind attack sets the PC's attacks to 10. Dual-wielding and improved haste do not affect that. So it's actually not that great for a dual-wielding blade.
  • ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 880
    Madhax said:

    Thrasymachus said:

    UAI, Improved Bard Song, Spike Traps, and Time Stop Traps are all quite nice for blades.

    I don't think this is a post seeking a buff, but rather a player looking for thematic consistency. Nothing about a blade says "Trap-setter", yet they get the most powerful traps in the game arbitrarily at a high level. Offensive Spin is more fitting.
    Fair enough. (But I think that you meant 'Whirlwind Attack' instead of 'Offensive Spin'; blades already have the latter, indeed a surfeit of them by the time they get to 3 million exp.)
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    And whirlwind Carsomyr is *_*
  • ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 880
    nano said:


    It's AMAZING for a blade because otherwise they have no way of reaching 10 attacks a round. Warriors can reach that number through improved haste and they don't even have to wield a crappy mainhand to do it.

    Fair enough. My impression was that it wasn't that great relative to the other Blade HLAs, especially given that WA only lasts one round (unlike standard OS or IH).
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    Thrasymachus said:

    nano said:


    It's AMAZING for a blade because otherwise they have no way of reaching 10 attacks a round. Warriors can reach that number through improved haste and they don't even have to wield a crappy mainhand to do it.

    Fair enough. My impression was that it wasn't that great relative to the other Blade HLAs, especially given that WA only lasts one round (unlike standard OS or IH).
    It might not be more powerful than ye olde spike trap but it's still very good and it lets you play the blade like a blade instead of a thief.

    I think you can whirlwind with Offensive Spin up, can't you? So for one, glorious moment you're whirlwinding while running Kai and Enrage and swinging the best weapons in the game with UAI, and all that time you spent struggling through bard school even though you sucked at lore and couldn't pick a pocket to save your life suddenly becomes worth it.
  • LathlaerLathlaer Member Posts: 475
    @nano

    No, you cannot Whirlwind Offensive Spin - tried already. After you use Whirlwind, Offensive Spin stops.

    And yes, it was mainly thematically oriented thread. After all, Whirlwind isn't THAT needed for a Blade - especially if you consider that Bards stop THAC0 progression at 10 while Fighters at 0. So yeah, I can have 10 attacks in ToB but it doesn't matter since I won't hit anything.

    BUT - Rogue rebalancing made one nice change, ie gave Bards acces to 8th level spells. So you can pull things like Spell Trigger -> Improved Haste, Protection From Magic Weapons, Tenser's Transformation. And that I believe will stack if I launch Offensive Spin beforehand.
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    @Lathlaer I see. But you have Tenser's Transformation, no? That will solve any thac0 issues.
  • LathlaerLathlaer Member Posts: 475
    Sadly, special abilities like Offensive Spin and Whirlwind Attack are considered spells.
  • ThraxxThraxx Member Posts: 67
    rogue balancing mod my friend. check it out.
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    @Lathlaer ooh wow. Okay, I see why you need the sequencer now. I had no idea there were so many interactions like that.
  • sunset00sunset00 Member Posts: 310
    @Lathlaer lol.. yes, the bard HLAs are weird..also the high level blade gameplay anyway ; will have to use more and more 'second rate' tactics near the end, aka much less direct berzek assaults, but more enhanced songs with simulacrum (UAI+helm), images etc...crazy traps like spike traps 3+ is not bad (invisibility, out of sight, new traps, etc..), time trap + I.Haste+tenser or slayer forms (nice too^)... but that is a real change with the previous gameplay for sure too... ^

    Apart that.... yeah, there is that excellent (apparently) http://www.spellholdstudios.net/ie/rr that i just saw was now compatible with EE.... some absolutely crazy changes too, no more traps (at all^), but much more higher levels spells, whirlwind, etc... new HLAs 'based on sounds'(!)...a totally new gameplay for sure it seems.. i would even be tempted myself for a next one... promised to be & feel totally different final gameplay too, that way.. and apparently more like the real Ad&D they say..seems interestign too, why not...and more straightforward last levels maybe, like that..as we could expect for a 'blade' so.. i wonder if they modded OS+H/IH though.. ^^

    ....OOORRR, a new quick idea like that, just give a new HLA (or pretend to yourself that's one^^) whatever (or just modify the Blades OS file (SPCL521) to allow haste/IH coexistence (and vice-versa^).. at last^ and no need to f*ck around with very special items -potions H, IH bracers, etc..- , using them first and all that BS.. just plain usage once for all.. *)) ).. allow ImprovedHaste + Offensive Spins lol... that would be fun too for a few final last bersek charges once in a while*) , and not that much out of par when you see a little the mod or other real fighters around at those last levels..i think i will modify my OS file like that for the end, to keep the frontline fun a little too...without changing anything else..after all, who cares, seems more logical to me too at those levels compared to others brutes around anyway... ))
  • mylegbigmylegbig Member Posts: 292
    Lathlaer said:



    BUT - Rogue rebalancing made one nice change, ie gave Bards acces to 8th level spells. So you can pull things like Spell Trigger -> Improved Haste, Protection From Magic Weapons, Tenser's Transformation. And that I believe will stack if I launch Offensive Spin beforehand.

    I actually don't install that part. It seems weird when my bard can cast more low level spells than my mage.
  • iavasechuiiavasechui Member Posts: 274
    edited December 2013
    You can import two items, 1 armor 1 misc from a chart the items are Protector of the Second, Mail of the Dead +2, Fallorain's Plate, Missile Attraction +2, or Chainmail +3 for the armor transfer. Helm of Balduran, Claw of Kazgaroth, Horn of Kazgaroth, Korveras' Ring of Protection +1 for the misc transfer. You can only get one of each and the defaults are Mail of The Dead +2 and Helm of Balduran.

    ....I think I may have posted this in the wrong tab....
    Post edited by iavasechui on
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