Archer in BG2 and ToB - No longer a powerhouse?
serialthrilla
Member Posts: 26
Does the effectiveness of the archer who dominated BG1 begin to wane in BG2? Is there any hope to making a powerful archer in BG2, or does melee trump ranged in every possible way?
If anyone has taken an archer through BG2 I'd love to hear about your thoughs&experiences with the class
If anyone has taken an archer through BG2 I'd love to hear about your thoughs&experiences with the class
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Because ranged dominated BG1 so much, to the point where you barely need a melee toon to be effective, Bioware went out of their way to nerf arrows in BG2 & design encounters that prohibited ranged.
I ran an Archer kit about half way through BG2 once, early on. He does his job, no complaints. But the class is incredibly narrow to the point of boredom. Archers offer almost no utility (stealth?) and zero nuance.
For a PC, every encounter plays like this:
1) Click your portrait.
2) Click your target.
That's it. You're done. That's about as exciting as Archers get in terms of playstyle.
There isn't anything wrong with the kit. It's fine. But the combination of nerfed arrows, lack of utility, and more entertaining options make it less desirable in a PC.
Though, that was also my first time completing all of BG2, so as all was new, it is hard to remember how limited did I feel the archer kit to be. (Also, maybe I was imagining but there might have been bugs affecting e.g. missile weapons' number of attacks).
I loaded one my final saves in BG2EE, here are my Archer's attack stats at the end:
The key really is Greater Whirlwind (or Imp Haste) though, as it lets you tear through most enemies before they actually get close.
Any melee kit can either buff themselves in combat, debuff enemies, heal in a pinch, or are useful in other ways outside of combat. When, if, and how you use these abilties can make a big difference in the game.
Archers? Archers can't do jack except shoot and stealth (which any ranger can do). Their special ability, Called Shot, is of negligible value. If you never use it, you really aren't decreasing the Archer's effectiveness a whole lot. The entire class is point and click. You need never make another decision about them after that, and you most likely never will.
Imagine, on the other hand, an Assassin never using poisons, Blade never using Offensive Spin, or an Inquistor never using Dispels.
Archers offer great damage but a dull playstyle. I'd take an NPC Archer in a heartbeat, but as a PC? ZZZzzzzzz.
But actually, I don't consider the simplicity to be a drawback. I'd rather not perform extra work clicking all these buttons for special abilities when all it provides is the illusion of choice. For example, you can get 10 attacks/round through Improved Haste or lots and lots of Whirlwinds, but I know which character I'd rather play.
Even you find the class boring on its own, unless you're playing solo, you will almost certainly have mages and other characters whom you do have to manage. I don't see the difference between picking a PC archer and an NPC archer because you're going to be managing your entire party either way.
Lol! I'll keep that secret for you
I found the silver ones, in SoA, you have to be evil to find them, but since being evil in BG only drops your reputation, it don't matters.
Another thing to consider though, is that Called Shot stacks PER attack. So you can beg someone with -10 save vs spell in 1 round of combat, and really make their life miserable. add to that -10 str, -10 thaco, and +20 damage, and you can really debuff someone down FAST. the -strength lasts for 10 seconds, at 10 attacks/round (greater whirlwind, improved haste) your looking at 1.67 attacks a second, meaning you can debuff someone 16.67 points of strength, and according to http://www.sorcerers.net/forums/showthread.php?t=48572 you can literally kill someone by reducing their strength to 0.
If they have added +4 and +5 arrows, I haven't seen them so far, and I am in Amkethran. However, I have found an awful lot of arrows of detonation 0_o Good point about called shot and debuffing enemies (just not the ones that can only be damaged by something above +3 arrows!)
@Mitchfork
Ah, I never knew that. I might try to be a bit more sneaky on my next playthrough. @CrevsDaak - maybe you can give it a shot as well
@Avenel those Arrows of Detonation are new, added in the EE, they are too powerful, try using them with Deathblow, and you'll auto kill in AoE, besides, that also happens with Assassin's poison, that's because they are one of the best ammo ever.
@rathe101 yeah, it counts as +4, but it only deals 2 piercing damage (according to the description, but we all know that it is missile damage) and some Electrical damage (aaaand I forgot how much), and I really don't think they added arrows +4 or either +5, but there were many feature requests for a longbow+4 with infinite arrows or an upgrade to make something better like Quiver of Plenty +3 striking as +5, what they added are Arrows of Detonation, and they are immensely overpowered if you use them with something like Greater Deathblow, Greater Whirlwind Attack or Poison Weapons.
EDIT: this is the thread but Camdawg explains much more in depth why archers aren't as powerful in BG2:
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/20559/higher-plus-arrows-and-bolts
Called shot + Improved haste, with the THACO of archers letting them hit on each shot lets you debuff your ennemies a lot, preventing damage and lowering their saves to ridiculous levels
That is an interesting thread that you provided the link to. I guess my preference for longbows means that I'll have to find another way around those darn critters that can only be damaged by something above +3 arrows (Foebane, here I come)
@Aranthys
I now have a whole new appreciation for called shot. My charname was in Amkethran and saw the confrontation between the monks and smugglers in the cavern. While the rest of my party concentrated on one of the monks, my charname used called shot, +2 arrows, and decimated the remaining monks in mere seconds. Gold.
and you can always fall back on melee, all you're really missing out compared to Minsc on is .5 APR, +1 to hit and +2 to damage.
Not only that, but if you put +4 bullets on the Sling of Everard, the THAC0 and damage bonuses stack; you're just firing bullets with +4 enchantment instead of +5. Example: