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How much magic is too much? (party help)

starskystarsky Member Posts: 44
in Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition
So I started making a decently neutral party.

F/T Multi PC (F)
Jaheria
HD

and then I got pretty stuck.. I ended up taking Aerie (for HD romance, they just belong together), Valygar (needed a front line), and Nalia (though I think Im going to Shadowkeeper her into a F > M)

Now I have 4 Arcane casters and a druid.

Is it too much? I'd pick up Jan if I didnt have so many casters already (plus my PC is a thief), Anomen if he wasnt such a douche and I hate his romance, or Cernd if he wasnt useless/another druid.

I just cant make my mind up, kinda silly seeing 4/6 party members dual wield though :(
Maybe I need some Minsc in my life??

I wish there were more neutral options.

second question, how does Jaheria fair with heavy focus on quarterstaves?

Help me BG forum. You're my only hope

Comments

  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    Jaheira's a poweful frontliner. You can get some decent staves but you'll miss out on either AC or APR if you stick with them. Early on she actually does very well with a club and shield, and with points in dual-wield and scimitars will become a powerhouse given time. Blackblood +3 (club) is available early and will last you a while. Blackblood and Belm as an offhand is pretty devestating. Ironskins, Insect Plague and Fire Elemental summons all add a lot of value to the party too.

    Haer'Dalis can actually frontline pretty well, though his HP does leave a bit to be desired. With Stoneskins, Mirror Image, PFMW & Tenser's Transformation he's hard to hit and hits hard. He's probably the party member you want to use any spare uber-weapons you have lying around (the FOA/Crom Faeyr etc) as he can't go beyond proficient.

    In answer to the original question - there's no such thing as too much arcane magic. Moar = Better. I'd even keep Nalia as a thief->mage rather than a F/M multi in order to get to high caster levels quickly.
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    I think he's making Nalia a f>m dual. I'm kind of tempted to try that myself, she's an awesome tank for a mage and will only be better as a fighter. Or maybe a bard, to stay a bit closer to her personality.
  • enqenqenqenq Member Posts: 499
    If you enjoy telling up to 5 characters what to cast each round, then it's not too much :)
  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    BG 2 is all about magic, so more the merrier, though of course party balance is still important.

    A few points/suggestions:
    1) Valygar is not a good frontliner. He is great for backstabbing, so he should be using lighter armour for stealth. He is good, but not really a powerhouse character.

    2) There are lots of good staves in the game, and Jaheira can become quite a combat goddess, but she is a bit squishy against the toughest foes.

    3) Minsc hits like a tonne of bricks, and there's lots of nice two-handed swords he can use.

    4) Keldorn is the only character who can use the most powerful weapon in the game, and he's a great frontliner, again with two-handed swords.

    5) Fighter/Mage and its variants are probably the tankiest characters in BG 2, if but since ur Charname isn't one, ur best bet for a reliable tank is probably Korgan or Anomen, basically somebody who can use a shield. Korgan has a problem with Aerie though...
  • AbelAbel Member Posts: 785
    edited January 2014
    I totally agree with what @Corvino said, you can never have too much Arcane magic. I actually think after several playthroughs that Arcane is way superior to Divine (in BG2) because it can litterally do anything (damage, buff, debuff) and with great efficiency. Sometimes I don't even use Priests and I really don't suffer from their absence.
  • kryptixkryptix Member Posts: 741
    edited January 2014
    Heindrich1988 said:

    BG 2 is all about magic, so more the merrier, though of course party balance is still important.

    A few points/suggestions:
    1) Valygar is not a good frontliner. He is great for backstabbing, so he should be using lighter armour for stealth. He is good, but not really a powerhouse character.

    2) There are lots of good staves in the game, and Jaheira can become quite a combat goddess, but she is a bit squishy against the toughest foes.

    3) Minsc hits like a tonne of bricks, and there's lots of nice two-handed swords he can use.

    4) Keldorn is the only character who can use the most powerful weapon in the game, and he's a great frontliner, again with two-handed swords.

    5) Fighter/Mage and its variants are probably the tankiest characters in BG 2, if but since ur Charname isn't one, ur best bet for a reliable tank is probably Korgan or Anomen, basically somebody who can use a shield. Korgan has a problem with Aerie though...


    1) I think Jan backstabs better but thats personal preference (You can build Jan as a melee with spells to supplement the backstabs).

    2) Jahiera is easily the tankiest NPC in the game because she is the only fighter type with ironskins and armor of faith, AOF + Hardiness + Ironskins and she will take what? 20% damage after the first 10 hits? Give her Belm and a +3 club in the main hand until you get spectral brand and she just needs an improved haste item. Str belt is required though, but you can buy one off Ribald.

    3) I don't like Minsc much after 1-2 playthroughs, hes basically a gimped Fighter with minimal Ranger abilities. Jaheira is better in pretty much every way, and Keldorn/Dorn if you want a Paladin/Anti-Paladin.

    4) Hexxat and Jan can both use Carsomyr as well, so can his F/T Charname. Arguably Ravager is better as a 2 hander anyway because of instant death, Carsomyr is only better against mages.

    5) Korgan is pretty good as a tank but a shield really doesn't help you tank too much unless it puts you into the -20 type of category. No matter what your AC is, that Adamantite Golem can still hit you once and it will hit you for like 80, so you might as well rely on Hardiness and Defender of Easthaven if you really want to tank. Anomen though has DoE, and Armor of Faith which is close.

    IF you keeper in the wisdom tomes from BG1, I believe you can give them to Valygar and he can then dualclass to cleric. Then he would be one of the best NPC tanks as a 13 Stalker>Cleric.

    As to having too much arcane magic, there are 4 timestop scrolls in SOA+WK so all 4 of them can get it before TOB even starts :) Not so many Wish or Chain Contingency though...

    If you were to do that though I'd recommend Jan only taking debuff/buff magic and building him as a backstabber. Haerdalis can be a tank, he gets access to blur, mirror, stoneskin, spell immunity and protection from magic weapons so he will be your best tank easily. Nalia and Aerie can be your normal mages, but I prefer Imoen to Nalia and Neera/Edwin would both be better than them as mages because of extra spells and NRD vs Edwin's broken necklace.
  • starskystarsky Member Posts: 44
    edited January 2014
    I have 3 current playthroughs and I wanted a very diverse group on each so I decided to divide my playthroughs by alignment.

    My neutral party is what I was struggling with and I did some messing around (more neutral/good).

    I ended up switching Valygar for Cernd, whom in all my years of playthroughs I haven't taken once. What I did was SK his strength to 17 and dualed him to a fighter at level 8 (just enough for Iron Skins). It's a little weird but I just wanted someone to hit things and he fits I guess... Any Advice on this??

    SO my "neutral" party is:
    F/T PC
    Jaheria
    Cernd
    Nalia
    HD
    Aerie

    Should be interesting as far as banters go. I know Cernd isnt a powerhouse but again, Ive never used him.

    If you guys are curious my other games are:

    Good (in ToB now):
    F > C dual PC
    Keldorn
    Rasaad
    Mazy
    Imoen
    Neera

    Evil (Just out of the underdark):
    K > Mage dual PC
    Dorn
    Korgan
    Virconia
    Hexxat
    Edwin


    Think I got a good mix around :D
    Thanks

    EDIT: ARG FORMAT!
  • kryptixkryptix Member Posts: 741
    You should have taken Aerie on "good" and Neera on "neutral" :)
  • starskystarsky Member Posts: 44
    edited January 2014
    kryptix said:

    You should have taken Aerie on "good" and Neera on "neutral" :)

    I KNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW I'm a little bummed about it but I'm romancing Neera in my good game
    plus Aerie and HD are a permanent item in my mind.

    In retrospect though, yeah...
  • AnaximanderAnaximander Member Posts: 191
    edited January 2014
    There's enough scrolls in game that you can support 2-3 mages perhaps, well 2 most reliably and maybe a bard. More perhaps; just an educated guestimate there take it for what you will. No such thing as too much magic in DnD, well except whilst in wild magic/dead/anti-magic zones. Bring some swords ...
  • kryptixkryptix Member Posts: 741
    For wild/dead magic you can always rely on 1-2 fighters with hlas though...
  • KortokKortok Member Posts: 165
    Heindrich1988 said:

    BG 2 is all about magic, so more the merrier, though of course party balance is still important.

    2) There are lots of good staves in the game, and Jaheira can become quite a combat goddess, but she is a bit squishy against the toughest foes.

    She has ironskins...
  • vangoatvangoat Member Posts: 212
    starsky said:

    So I started making a decently neutral party.

    F/T Multi PC (F)
    Jaheria
    HD

    and then I got pretty stuck.. I ended up taking Aerie (for HD romance, they just belong together), Valygar (needed a front line), and Nalia (though I think Im going to Shadowkeeper her into a F > M)

    Now I have 4 Arcane casters and a druid.

    Is it too much? I'd pick up Jan if I didnt have so many casters already (plus my PC is a thief), Anomen if he wasnt such a douche and I hate his romance, or Cernd if he wasnt useless/another druid.


    If you have SCS installed Cernd is pretty decent. I'm playing a similar nature party (Totemic Druid/fighter dual at 12), Jaheira, Minsc, Cernd, Aerie and Nalia. Even his base werewolf form seems kinda useful, plus he can iron skin and you get an extra insect plague. I haven't even got to greater werewolf yet. With enough insects you can shut down most mages.
  • FatalApocalypseFatalApocalypse Member Posts: 66
    edited January 2014
    More than 1 mage is too much. More than 2 priest spells casters is too much. You want to have fun playing this game or waste your time sitting in auto pause thinking about spells and stuff as if this was some school homework ? rofl

    Edit; typooooooo
  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    FatalApocalypse said:

    More than 1 mage is too much. More than 2 priest spells casters is too much. You want to have fun playing this game or waste your time sitting in auto pause thinking about spells and stuff as if this was some school homework ? rofl

    Edit; typooooooo

    Or... how about we say people should play a singleplayer game however they'd enjoy it.

    I personally enjoy having a party of powerful spellcasters who have great potential, but individually a bit squishy, and can become vulnerable if they run out of spells, which happens cos I challenge myself with 'realistic sleep'. This makes it all the more interesting thinking about when to use which spells. So what if my battles take longer than yours? Maybe I find auto-attack 'click until the enemy is dead' kinda boring?
  • TwaniTwani Member Posts: 640
    I've played all divine caster games, where every character was a divine caster. I even played an all arcane caster game, where everyone was either wizard or sorc. Because why the heck not?

    ...They died a lot to traps. >.>
  • kryptixkryptix Member Posts: 741
    Actually one of the fastest ways through the game would probably be to have several mages with chain contingency ADHW x3 and just rest every encounter...
  • FatalApocalypseFatalApocalypse Member Posts: 66
    Heindrich1988 said:


    Or... how about we say people should play a singleplayer game however they'd enjoy it.

    Then you shouldn't be here according to that rant lol

  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    FatalApocalypse said:

    Heindrich1988 said:


    Or... how about we say people should play a singleplayer game however they'd enjoy it.

    Then you shouldn't be here according to that rant lol

    lol
  • abacusabacus Member Posts: 1,307
    I consider 1+1/2 arcane caster to be an absolute minimum... As in, one dedicated Mage/Sorcerer (an early dual would be acceptable) and one multi or bard.
    I think in most party vs party fights, the team with the last standing caster will almost always win, so I really want the insurance of another spellsman.
  • RhymeRhyme Member Posts: 190
    Unless your post starts like this:

    "My PC is a (Sorceror/Wild Mage/something-dualed-to-mage), and my party so far is Aerie, Edwin, and Jan... I'm thinking about adding..."

    Then the answer is no, you do not have "too much" arcane spellcasting. If you like arcane spellcasting, that is.
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