Mm. That's why I've vowed that any mod I make will have a friendship track that is (hopefully!) just as interesting as the romance track. Because, well, I do love romances and I find them one of the fun points of RPGs that have them decently portrayed- so I am going to write a romance. But I want to write characters that can be connected to beyond that romance option. A character shouldn't be a blank slate, unless you're sexually incompatible then all of a sudden they can't shut up. That's a boring character first off, and second off, it makes that character seem weird and incredibly desperate.
Honestly, I have to say that a Male Human seems the most likely candidate. What with things like you being mistaken for a human male bounty hunter in Nashkel, the increased number of romance options for men as opposed to women in BG2, the lore problems of having a fully mature dwarf or elf at age 20, and the whole Cain and Abel dynamic you've got going with Sarevok.
As for class... I see either a Mage or Fighter/Mage Dual as being the most 'fitting' option. A Mage would work, when you consider Gorion, and a Fighter/Mage Dual get's to take on Sarevok with a blade and Irenicus with sorcery (and possibly a blade as well. Stabbity stab stab.).
The only way Jaheira's romance is taking six months is if you're resting after every battle, resting everytime you change screens, and then just throw in some random resting just for the sake of resting. It's much more likely to be a two month period, one month if you play with little resting.
I kind of disagree. I thought the game moved too fast tbh. You go from the Docks to Imnesvale half a day on foot with no rest? I think if you do "realistic rest" (I include resting after a tough fight, since that makes sense for an adventurer) you could get 3/4 months before Spellhold easy, especially since your charname is just dumped in a massive city with very few supplies and no idea where to go or what to do to earn money.
We kinda power through nowadays because we've played it so many times and know where everything is/what to do. The game isn't designed for that.
I agree I didn't rest except at the end of dungeons, ie I'd rest right before the dragon or something and my game was 160 days by the time I killed irenicus because I traveled back and forth to the far away places and such a few times...
* Gorion's Ward & Sarevok being a Cain and Abel trope * Gorion's Ward/Imoen being a foil to Irenicus/Bodhi. Irenicus, a male, steals your soul while his sister steals your sister's soul. * Increased romance options for males.
Race: Human
* Logistics behind a 20-year-old adult as a non-human race * Family members (Imoen and Sarevok) being human
Class: Fighter
* Gorion's Ward/Sarevok being foils and Sarevok is a fighter * Irenicus's sorcery countered by Gorion's Ward's swordsmanship * Gorion raising you with a sword while raising Imoen with a staff (fighter vs mage)
Alignment: Chaotic Good or Neutral Good
* Considering his other 'canon' party members and his redemption of his brother to CG
Canon Party (BG):
Gorion's Ward Imoen Khalid Jaheira Minsc Dynaheir
* 3 duos in this group (GW/Imoen; Minsc/Dyna; Jah/Kha) * Canon party that leaves BG and gets captured prior to BG2
* Minsc and Jaheira stay with you * Yoshimo --> Imoen for obvious reasons (his geas, betrayal, and death making way for Imoen) * Aerie being the romantic interest for Gorion's Ward and Minsc's new witch * 6th Man being any of the other NPCs Gorion's Ward encounters and aids in BG2. Keldorn follows GW to Spellhold/Underdark/Suldanesselar due to honor/duty and serves as an older mentor to GW. In TOB, GW releases Keldorn from his service and Sarevok joins the party * That combination of NPCs make for the most diverse party (fighter, paladin, ranger, thief, mage, cleric, druid)
But why can Gorion's ward not be human? It would make the most sense given his age, when I'm pretty sure most elves and dwarves are still immature. I don't know about the lifespan of halflings and gnomes, but they would make pretty odd protagonists conceptually. But I don't deny their possibility like you do with humans.
Charname makes most chronological sense as either a human, half-elf or half-orc (of the selectable races: basically, anything that is human or half-human could work). The others just don't really make a whole lot of sense given the timeline and your age (20). Elves do not mature until way later, though there sen to be debates on whether this is physical maturity or simply 'emotional maturity', neither of which makes a whole lot of sense. (At best you'd end up playing an elf with the body of a young man/woman and the mentality of a six-year-old, or something similar.)
If this was Hollywood, then Charname would be male. I like my Charnames female, but what do I know.
I think the best class combo would be Fighter duelling to Mage in BG2 (in terms of RP drama). Bard would also work, having a roguish hero who lives by wit and skill, probably a Blade). Sorcerer obviously works too. It really depends on exactly what kind of character arc one might want to envision for them.
As half-orcs were not in the original, I doubt it. He's probably human and male, simply because the target audience is usually male and occasionally human (not saying there are a lot of girl gamers, just in general I think most of the creators had males in mind) The fact that the dude in Nashkel thought you were maybe Greywolf only makes sense as a human. The Sarevok and Imoen being human doesn't really prove things either way in terms of "high-fantasy genetics 101" but it makes a human feel a little more in place.
The facts that shorties and half-orcs preclude most romance options pretty much eliminates them from the discussion, regardless of your feelings about romance in videogames. Elves have weird timelines, but I guess "Bhaalspawn blood magic" is an okay explanation. Half-elves have a similar problem to a lesser extent. The fact that humans need no explanation makes them the most elegant fit.
I personally prefer female charnames too, but it seems unlikely due to Greywolf (a minor detail) and more importantly the romance options.
He's probably human and male, simply because the target audience is usually male and occasionally human (not saying there are a lot of girl gamers, just in general I think most of the creators had males in mind)
Hey! I'm not human, male nor female and I play this game (I am be a Modron, a backwards Modron, I be Nordom)! :P Just joking!
@Eudaemonium I feel the same with Elves, is just you are like an adult Elf and only 20 years passed, I was like WTF when I realized you were born only some years ago (I thought the Time of Troubles happened a millennia ago :P) as my first run I was an Elven M/T (in BG:EE, BG2:SoA and BG2:ToB, he wasn't my first BG1 PC (he was my 5 BG1 PC, but the only one I completed BG2 with so he is like my first PC (as my real first PC was also an elven M/T but with REALLY bad stats and points in HiS and PP) who wasn't good enough for BG2) but he was like it).
I think its fairly clear that the developers assumed most people would be playing a human male. I didn;t think that was the discussion we were having. I mean, it was the same today in Dragon Age, where something like 80% of people chose Human Noble. I reckon people who wanted to Multi-Class probably went with half-elf mostly, much like I did.
The sheer fact that dwarves have no vanilla romance options available to them would seem to imply the devs didn't think many people would be playing them.
Elves do not mature until way later, though there sen to be debates on whether this is physical maturity or simply 'emotional maturity', neither of which makes a whole lot of sense. (At best you'd end up playing an elf with the body of a young man/woman and the mentality of a six-year-old, or something similar.)
Some info I found from Races of the Wild (3.5E book) about that topic. Not sure about ADnD, though.
Do you guys think maybe Bhaal was like Zeus and mated with non-sentient creatures as well?
Perhaps Boo was undercover all along, but was the final Bhaalspawn waiting to kill charname in his sleep after he eliminated all the other children for him.
It's entirely possible. In fact you come across other rodent Bhaalspawn in ToB. Chinchilla to be precise, near the Fire Giant Temple in the Marching Mountains.
@TheZodiak Actually by "Monks" they mean secluded scholars/priests. As in Christian Monks. The Monk class is more like Shaolin Monk. Both spiritual people, but one knows Kung-Fu.
Though a Sorcerer/Mage or Cleric of Oghma or Cleric/Mage multi makes sense. Paladin also makes sense since they are priests in a way just more combat oriented. And being a Paladin is more of a calling, than a profession. A Paladin of Oghma is totally possible, rule-wise also.
For a true to the story run through, I'd say it's gotta be MainChar, Jaheira, Minsc, Yoshimo, Imoen, and Aerie. When Imoen is not in the party you gotta pick up people, do their quest, and send em packin for the next guy.
If you are an evil character, and you want an evil party, I think the two canon characters that are a must are Edwin and Viconia. It would follow that you were evil in BG1 and instead of saving Dynaheir you went and killed her. Likewise you probably picked up Viconia when you saw a sexy drow with clerical services, not out of the goodness of your heart of course, but to suit your own purposes. These two holdovers are the only ones available from BG1 and are a lot of fun. Korgan is pretty damn close just what party doesn't need an evil axe-wielding dwarf with a thirst for blood?
@Archaos, the following table is from the Complete Book of Elves, 2E
The descriptions that follow the table imply fairly strongly that these phases mean exactly what they do for humans, namely that elves are children both mentally and physically for the first 65-75 years. Its implied most are physically mature at around 100, though, and remain as such for most of their lives.
I assume they changed it in 3E so it made some kind of sense, but this is technically what it is in 2E.
Though there's one bit of proof that contradicts those rules, though those rules might be the same as what the 3.5 book describes.
Drizzt when he got to the surface was much younger than 100 years old. I think during the events of the BG games, he is around 71 years old. (Compared his date of birth to the date the games take place).
I dunno. The chart suggests Drizzt would be in his late adolescence during BG2. Considering (normal) Elves in 2E are physically mature around 100, Drow are probably physically mature at around 60-65. How many years had Drizzt been around kicking butt pre-BG timeline-wise? I mean Adolescence from Drow is 50-79, which probably corresponds to humans from around 12/13 to about 20/21. A 60 year old Drizzt would probably be about 17 in human terms, which is a fine age for adventuring.
I don't think you can really say 2E or 3.5E are 'more accurate'. We're dealing with an entirely fictional species, after all. 2E is accurate for 2E and 3.5E is accurate for 3.5E. There is a certain amount of logic to argue for either being more 'realistic'.
Avariel maximum ages are about 300, btw. But the CBoE doesn't actually say anything about them maturing any faster.
@Eudaemonium Drizzt was born in 1297 DR. The BG events take place in 1368 DR (Iron Crisis). Which makes him 71 years old. The Sojourn book takes place in 1340 - 1347 DR. And the wiki article on Sojourn says: "Drizzt Do'Urden, a forty year old renegade drow who has forsaken the ways of his evil people to live a better life on the surface of Toril, greets the dawn each morning to acclimatize himself to his new home, in spite of the great pain it causes him."
So I doubt that he was a "child" by our terms. That's why I say that the 3.5 book might be more accurate about elven age. As in, the Complete Book of Elves is not clear on it and the Races of the Wild book clarifies it, even if the edition is different.
Comments
As for class... I see either a Mage or Fighter/Mage Dual as being the most 'fitting' option. A Mage would work, when you consider Gorion, and a Fighter/Mage Dual get's to take on Sarevok with a blade and Irenicus with sorcery (and possibly a blade as well. Stabbity stab stab.).
* Gorion's Ward & Sarevok being a Cain and Abel trope
* Gorion's Ward/Imoen being a foil to Irenicus/Bodhi. Irenicus, a male, steals your soul while his sister steals your sister's soul.
* Increased romance options for males.
Race: Human
* Logistics behind a 20-year-old adult as a non-human race
* Family members (Imoen and Sarevok) being human
Class: Fighter
* Gorion's Ward/Sarevok being foils and Sarevok is a fighter
* Irenicus's sorcery countered by Gorion's Ward's swordsmanship
* Gorion raising you with a sword while raising Imoen with a staff (fighter vs mage)
Alignment: Chaotic Good or Neutral Good
* Considering his other 'canon' party members and his redemption of his brother to CG
Canon Party (BG):
Gorion's Ward
Imoen
Khalid
Jaheira
Minsc
Dynaheir
* 3 duos in this group (GW/Imoen; Minsc/Dyna; Jah/Kha)
* Canon party that leaves BG and gets captured prior to BG2
Canon Party (BG2):
Gorion's Ward - Fighter
Yoshimo --> Imoen - Mage/Thief
Minsc - Ranger
Aerie - Cleric/Mage
Jaheira - Druid/Fighter
6th Man/Keldorn --> Sarevok - Inquisitor; Fighter
* Minsc and Jaheira stay with you
* Yoshimo --> Imoen for obvious reasons (his geas, betrayal, and death making way for Imoen)
* Aerie being the romantic interest for Gorion's Ward and Minsc's new witch
* 6th Man being any of the other NPCs Gorion's Ward encounters and aids in BG2. Keldorn follows GW to Spellhold/Underdark/Suldanesselar due to honor/duty and serves as an older mentor to GW. In TOB, GW releases Keldorn from his service and Sarevok joins the party
* That combination of NPCs make for the most diverse party (fighter, paladin, ranger, thief, mage, cleric, druid)
There is no way he is human.
Male and fighter yes. Alignment impossible to say.
and he does not save sarevok. He kills sarevok after getting what he needs in hell.
Sigh... I don't want to clash with you again.
But why can Gorion's ward not be human? It would make the most sense given his age, when I'm pretty sure most elves and dwarves are still immature. I don't know about the lifespan of halflings and gnomes, but they would make pretty odd protagonists conceptually. But I don't deny their possibility like you do with humans.
If this was Hollywood, then Charname would be male. I like my Charnames female, but what do I know.
I think the best class combo would be Fighter duelling to Mage in BG2 (in terms of RP drama). Bard would also work, having a roguish hero who lives by wit and skill, probably a Blade). Sorcerer obviously works too. It really depends on exactly what kind of character arc one might want to envision for them.
The fact that the dude in Nashkel thought you were maybe Greywolf only makes sense as a human. The Sarevok and Imoen being human doesn't really prove things either way in terms of "high-fantasy genetics 101" but it makes a human feel a little more in place.
The facts that shorties and half-orcs preclude most romance options pretty much eliminates them from the discussion, regardless of your feelings about romance in videogames. Elves have weird timelines, but I guess "Bhaalspawn blood magic" is an okay explanation. Half-elves have a similar problem to a lesser extent. The fact that humans need no explanation makes them the most elegant fit.
I personally prefer female charnames too, but it seems unlikely due to Greywolf (a minor detail) and more importantly the romance options.
@Eudaemonium I feel the same with Elves, is just you are like an adult Elf and only 20 years passed, I was like WTF when I realized you were born only some years ago (I thought the Time of Troubles happened a millennia ago :P) as my first run I was an Elven M/T (in BG:EE, BG2:SoA and BG2:ToB, he wasn't my first BG1 PC (he was my 5 BG1 PC, but the only one I completed BG2 with so he is like my first PC (as my real first PC was also an elven M/T but with REALLY bad stats and points in HiS and PP) who wasn't good enough for BG2) but he was like it).
The game allows any combo and there is ofc as many answers as playthroughs.
Bhaal is the father and all bhaalspawns are a race on their own. Elf bhaalspawns can mature in 20 years etc.
Anyone claiming any favor for any single combo (and meaning it) is 100 percent wrong.
Bhaal was most likely human. And if you want to make an avatar of Bhaal CHARNAME, that is how you would do it, I guess.
Do you guys think maybe Bhaal was like Zeus and mated with non-sentient creatures as well?
Perhaps Boo was undercover all along, but was the final Bhaalspawn waiting to kill charname in his sleep after he eliminated all the other children for him.
tun tun tuuuuuun
It's entirely possible. In fact you come across other rodent Bhaalspawn in ToB. Chinchilla to be precise, near the Fire Giant Temple in the Marching Mountains.
We have Bhaalspawn Chinchillas, why not Bhaalspawn Miniature Giant Space Hamster?
1. Human Monk: Because you spend your whole life time with monks.
2. Human Mage/Sorceror: Gorion was your mentor and taught you the secrets of magic
Actually by "Monks" they mean secluded scholars/priests. As in Christian Monks.
The Monk class is more like Shaolin Monk.
Both spiritual people, but one knows Kung-Fu.
Though a Sorcerer/Mage or Cleric of Oghma or Cleric/Mage multi makes sense.
Paladin also makes sense since they are priests in a way just more combat oriented. And being a Paladin is more of a calling, than a profession.
A Paladin of Oghma is totally possible, rule-wise also.
If you are an evil character, and you want an evil party, I think the two canon characters that are a must are Edwin and Viconia. It would follow that you were evil in BG1 and instead of saving Dynaheir you went and killed her. Likewise you probably picked up Viconia when you saw a sexy drow with clerical services, not out of the goodness of your heart of course, but to suit your own purposes. These two holdovers are the only ones available from BG1 and are a lot of fun. Korgan is pretty damn close just what party doesn't need an evil axe-wielding dwarf with a thirst for blood?
The descriptions that follow the table imply fairly strongly that these phases mean exactly what they do for humans, namely that elves are children both mentally and physically for the first 65-75 years. Its implied most are physically mature at around 100, though, and remain as such for most of their lives.
I assume they changed it in 3E so it made some kind of sense, but this is technically what it is in 2E.
Though there's one bit of proof that contradicts those rules, though those rules might be the same as what the 3.5 book describes.
Drizzt when he got to the surface was much younger than 100 years old. I think during the events of the BG games, he is around 71 years old. (Compared his date of birth to the date the games take place).
So you're saying I murdered a child?
Heh, just that it's more likely that the 3.5E rules on Elven age is more accurate.
I don't think you can really say 2E or 3.5E are 'more accurate'. We're dealing with an entirely fictional species, after all. 2E is accurate for 2E and 3.5E is accurate for 3.5E. There is a certain amount of logic to argue for either being more 'realistic'.
Avariel maximum ages are about 300, btw. But the CBoE doesn't actually say anything about them maturing any faster.
Drizzt was born in 1297 DR. The BG events take place in 1368 DR (Iron Crisis). Which makes him 71 years old.
The Sojourn book takes place in 1340 - 1347 DR.
And the wiki article on Sojourn says: "Drizzt Do'Urden, a forty year old renegade drow who has forsaken the ways of his evil people to live a better life on the surface of Toril, greets the dawn each morning to acclimatize himself to his new home, in spite of the great pain it causes him."
So I doubt that he was a "child" by our terms. That's why I say that the 3.5 book might be more accurate about elven age. As in, the Complete Book of Elves is not clear on it and the Races of the Wild book clarifies it, even if the edition is different.