Shapeshifter Dualing To Fighter
Dogma18
Member Posts: 5
I'm contemplating starting a Human Shapeshifter and dualing him into a Fighter. However, there were so many questions and complications after doing my research. I tried googling and looking around the forums for answers but no one seems to have any confirmed info, or have asked the right questions, so I'm going to list everything I need official answers for.
- What are the character stats for the basic Werewolf and the Greater Werewolf?
- Should my human stats be lower than the werewolf stats?
- What weapon proficiency does the werewolf paws use?
- If there isn't, what should I get then?
- What style proficiency does the paws use? Two-weapon style?
- If there isn't, what should I get then?
- After dualing to Fighter, will my Werewolf form use the Fighter's THAC0, etc.?
- Should I even dual to a Fighter?
- Is dualing straight after reaching lvl 13 the best time to dual into Fighter?
- Will my EQ's benefits (e.g. Ring of Princes' +1 buffs) carry on to my Werewolf form?
Okay, that's all the questions I can think of at the moment. If anyone has any CONFIRMED INFO FROM OFFICIAL SOURCES, please let me know, I will deeply appreciate it. Sorry for the caps, but after searching for the answers, I realise a lot of people reply based on assumption and conjecture which have many discrepancies.
Thanks!
- What are the character stats for the basic Werewolf and the Greater Werewolf?
- Should my human stats be lower than the werewolf stats?
- What weapon proficiency does the werewolf paws use?
- If there isn't, what should I get then?
- What style proficiency does the paws use? Two-weapon style?
- If there isn't, what should I get then?
- After dualing to Fighter, will my Werewolf form use the Fighter's THAC0, etc.?
- Should I even dual to a Fighter?
- Is dualing straight after reaching lvl 13 the best time to dual into Fighter?
- Will my EQ's benefits (e.g. Ring of Princes' +1 buffs) carry on to my Werewolf form?
Okay, that's all the questions I can think of at the moment. If anyone has any CONFIRMED INFO FROM OFFICIAL SOURCES, please let me know, I will deeply appreciate it. Sorry for the caps, but after searching for the answers, I realise a lot of people reply based on assumption and conjecture which have many discrepancies.
Thanks!
0
Comments
What weapon proficiency does the werewolf paws use?
None they just use your base THAC0 score.
- Should I even dual to a Fighter?
{opinion) No I would not duel from a casting class only to a casting class
- If there isn't, what should I get then?
Slings, scimitars are the two most common choices.
But staves work well since there are a few with special ability's.
Werewolf: STR adjusted to 19 and DEX adjusted to 16 (even if base scores are higher). No other stats change.
Greater Werewolf: Need BG2:EE to answer this.
- Should my human stats be lower than the werewolf stats?
Human stats do not need to be higher. If they are higher, they are reduced by assuming werewolf form (e.g. if your DEX is > 16, turning into Werewolf reduces your DEX to 16). However - remember that to dual class from druid to fighter, you will need at least WIS 15, CHA 15 and STR 17.
- What weapon proficiency does the werewolf paws use?
None, you are considered automatically proficient in paws.
- If there isn't, what should I get then?
Scimitars and staves are the best choice. Some powerful options in BG:EE (Staff +3, two Scimitars +2, also Drizzt's weapons) and many more in BG2.
- What style proficiency does the paws use? Two-weapon style?
No, but single weapon style appears to apply to werewolf paws.
- If there isn't, what should I get then?
Two-handed weapon style is useful if your turn to staves. Two weapon style would be great if you turn to scimitars.
- After dualing to Fighter, will my Werewolf form use the Fighter's THAC0, etc.?
Your werewolf form utilizes your base THAC0, so you will be a better werewolf with fighter levels.
- Should I even dual to a Fighter?
Your call. It's a big time investment. For instance, if you dual class out of druid at level 13, it will take you almost all of BG2 to regain your druid powers again. BG2 has a low XP cap, so you won't have much leeway to level more. If you power-level and remove the XP cap, dual classing is much faster and more bearable. You won't be that much more powerful after the dual class, you'll just be more versatile. Still, the concept is cool!
- Is dualing straight after reaching lvl 13 the best time to dual into Fighter?
If you're going to do a Shapeshifter werewolf, I'd say yes. The reason being that you want to be the best Shapeshifter possible! Also raising your level 14 -> 15 is stupidly hard as a druid.
- Will my EQ's benefits (e.g. Ring of Princes' +1 buffs) carry on to my Werewolf form?
Ring of Princes works and most other items should also.
So if the werewolf form uses my base THAC0, then wouldn't dualing to a Fighter improve the Werewolf's THAC0? What about attacks per round?
Werewolf attacks per round appear to be increased by fighter levels. A 6th level fighter/7th level shapeshifter gets an extra half-attack in werewolf form.
[tested in beta v1.2]
But anyway, thanks Silence! That was very detailed and informative! How did you get by this info? It was hard to find it all in one place and some still unanswered. Did you test it yourself?
All magically created melee weapons and all shapeshift forms that do not explicitly carry a two-handed weapon (flint and fire salamander) benefit from single weapon style IF you do not have a shield equipped before shifting/summoning.
If you do have a shield equipped, you'll use sword and shield style instead.
If you equip a weapon in your shield slot, you'll still use single weapon style, BUT you will get an extra off-hand attack.
Flint and fire salamander use the two-handed weapon style instead of the single weapon style. The fire salamander also seems to need the spear proficiency.
This is all based on me testing in v1.2. I might have misinterpreted or overlooked things of course.
EDIT: I also posted this in the strategy forum, seems like something that could benefit from its own topic, especially to find out if I got things wrong
@magpie: Cool! I hadn't checked out other shapeshifting forms and spells. Thanks for posting!
- What are the character stats for the basic Werewolf and the Greater Werewolf?
Only STR, DEX, and CON change. 19-16-15 for Werewolf, 21-20-25 for Greater.
Unequipped their AC drops to -1 and -10 respectively.
On top of this they have resistances, 20% magic for WW, 40% magic and 50% to for ALL elemental damage for GWW.
- Should my human stats be lower than the werewolf stats?
STR should be high enough to dual, DEX and CON are irreverent when shifted.
- What weapon proficiency does the werewolf paws use?
None.
- If there isn't, what should I get then?
I recommend ranged like darts and throwing daggers to use in human form, or weapons with Use Item abilities. The latter lets you basically cast while shifted.
- What style proficiency does the paws use? Two-weapon style?
None
- If there isn't, what should I get then?
Two weapon style if you dual-wield (since even shifted you get +1 APR) to avoid Thac0 loss, or Sword and Shield if you decide to use a shield (since even shifted you get AC and other bonuses). I know the latter only gets you -4 AC to missiles, but what else are you going to use your points on?
- After dualing to Fighter, will my Werewolf form use the Fighter's THAC0, etc.?
Yes. If I recall correctly (and I'm pretty sure I so), your saving throws improve too.
- Should I even dual to a Fighter?
It could be fun. A werewolf with improved Thaco and saves, more APR, the ability to use a shield and helm, and get fighter HLA's...
- Is dualing straight after reaching lvl 13 the best time to dual into Fighter?
13 or 14 for sure. 13, for a quicker recovery and because you got your GWW. 14 so you can have a level 7 spell (two with the druid ring). I could really go either way. You COULD wait for 15 for massive spell gains and to pick up the Globe of Blades HLA, but... that's a LONG haul. Maybe in a small party or solo... idk, leaning toward 13.
- Will my EQ's benefits (e.g. Ring of Princes' +1 buffs) carry on to my Werewolf form?
The vast majority seems to cross over, with the exception of weapons, any EQ impacting STR/DEX/CON, and magic resistance (it seems caped at your GWW's natural 40%). With nothing more than Helm of the Rock, Dragon Scale Shield and your GWW resistances you're looking at complete immunity to Fire, Cold and Lightening. And potions still override GWW STR/DEX/CON.
It should be added that with Hell Trial rewards, spell buffs casted before shifting, gear and HLA's, you could easily have -20 AC, immunity to weapons +1 or lower, fire (including magical), cold (including magical), lightening, poison and resistances of 40-80% of 6 other damage types. Plus Ironskins! Pretty sure the Hell +2 to STR will stack too, giving you 23 total (come to the dark side!). 4 APR with a shield, 5 with an offhand. Buff all that with Greater Whirlwinds or Critical Strikes... you'll be... well... a beast!
It would seem pure Shapeshifters CAN use helms already, and bucklers. It would also seem druids get poison immunity at level 15, and +10 to all elemental resistances at levels 18, 21, and 24. Even without gear or buffs, this puts your elemental resistances at 80% when shifted.
They also continue to get additional casts of GWW every 2 levels, which means they wont have to rest every time they turn human to heal or buff, unlike the proposed dual-class which would have only one or two casts.
Given that a Shapeshifter's paws don't benefit from weapon profs, and only count as +2, even with warrior HLA's they are always going to be sub par melee damage dealers. A single class gets the extra resists, plus Globe of Blades and Aura of Flaming Death (which may well be better damage dealers than warrior HLA's in this scenario).
My verdict? Play a straight up Shapshifter! Focus on buffs and summons, after combat healing maybe. Rely on GoB, AoFD and 6 hasted attacks for damage. Naturally high AC and resists make for an ideal tank. Cernd would actually serve nicely. Only reason I see to waste your PC on a Shapeshifter is for the +2 to STR from Hell, which is cool if you want to be an evil druid. Oh, plus the +20% to fire, cold and lightening resistances from Hell (which without gear or buffs will put you at 100% at level 24). Otherwise... Cernd it up!
Okay, I'm done now, I swear.
I find dual-class to be very cheesy and powergamey, especially for a druid.
You get more spells, more resistances and more uses of the Greater Werewolf.
Let the actual warriors focus on the warrior stuff, be different.
Let's not forget after level 20 (sooner?) THAC0 doesn't mean much since it caps, yet you continue to get Druid stuff. So it's all about the Fighter HLAs. Personally, I prefer the HLA Druid summons etc than another fighter with a Greater Whirlwind.
You have Keldorn, Mazzy, Valygar, Minsc, Sarevok, Dorn, Korgan etc for that.
As a pure Shapeshifter, your only competition is Cernd.