Any NWN2 Loremasters want to give me advice on building a bard?
booinyoureyes
Member Posts: 6,164
in Off-Topic
Hey guys!
I know @abacus recently made a thread about a build for NWN2, and got some cool responses. So, since I was thinking of finally finishing this game (I finished the first bits once, but had to quit), I decided to make a sequel.
I'm interested in making a bard, but not sure how I should go about it. Is it possible to make a powerful bard in the game? The Red Dragon Disciple route looks interesting, but I also want to concentrate on the music and magic parts as well.
As far as weapons go, I'm not sure if it would be better to go the weapon finesse route or the archery route for a dexterity based character. I'm open to either, and I've recently played a blade in BG2 and loved it.
Any general advice on the game is welcome, even if not related to this specific character build.
I'd also be very interested to hear about Druids as well, since that is my second choice (I'm going to take the elf chick with me). Also want to know if I *need* a full time thief (not really planning on keeping Neeshka)
I want my party to basically be
1. Me the male Bard (Human, gnome, elf or halfling)
2. the druid chick for the romance
3. Khelgar for the awesomeness
4. The crazy sorcerer chick or another mage (if there is one)
Thanks in advance for any help!
I know @abacus recently made a thread about a build for NWN2, and got some cool responses. So, since I was thinking of finally finishing this game (I finished the first bits once, but had to quit), I decided to make a sequel.
I'm interested in making a bard, but not sure how I should go about it. Is it possible to make a powerful bard in the game? The Red Dragon Disciple route looks interesting, but I also want to concentrate on the music and magic parts as well.
As far as weapons go, I'm not sure if it would be better to go the weapon finesse route or the archery route for a dexterity based character. I'm open to either, and I've recently played a blade in BG2 and loved it.
Any general advice on the game is welcome, even if not related to this specific character build.
I'd also be very interested to hear about Druids as well, since that is my second choice (I'm going to take the elf chick with me). Also want to know if I *need* a full time thief (not really planning on keeping Neeshka)
I want my party to basically be
1. Me the male Bard (Human, gnome, elf or halfling)
2. the druid chick for the romance
3. Khelgar for the awesomeness
4. The crazy sorcerer chick or another mage (if there is one)
Thanks in advance for any help!
3
Comments
Classic vanilla bard.
Raise CHA as high as possible, get a Rapier and Weapon Finesse, then use Greater Heroism and Inspire Courage to do some damage. Best caster build, party face and I would put 12-14 into INT to get more skill points.
Tanky Bard. Get 1-2 Cleric levels to get proficiencies, domains and Turn Undead which then you can get Divine Might (extra divine damage based on CHA) and/or Divine Shield (extra AC based on CHA).
Then get the Battle Caster feat and you can fight in Mithral Fullplate (medium armor) and a Mithral Heavy Shield.
What I call Haer'Dalis Bard. Get a race with good Dex (Elves are good) and race Dex instead of Cha but still keep it at around 16-18. Two-Weapon Fighting with Short Swords. Good AC and Inspire Courage works for both weapons, plus double the enchantments.
Decent caster but more focused on two-weapons and you don't need Divine Shield or heavier armor for better defense.
With Greater Heroism you'll be a better warrior than the other ones almost.
Strength bard or RDD. Focused on STR instead. You can make it even more optimized with those levels of Cleric.
Now you're a STR based bard with 20+ natural STR, improved CON, INT AND CHA, in Mithral Plate with a two-handed weapon AND Divine Might for even more damage. Get Power Attack, naturally.
Instead of Cleric, you can go Blackguard instead if you're evil.
Lacks in casting but the damage is awesome.
Archer Bard? Best if you go into Arcane Archer then. Must be Half-Elf or Elf. Amazing archer but lags a bit with spellcasting and the bard stuff but they're still a nice bonus.
Dex based and get Rapid Shot and the other archery feats. And if you can keep advancing your Bard class in Epic anyway.
Alternatively: you can raise Dex with a pure Bard like the TWF build but get archery feats instead. Less powerful but more survivable since you'll be at range.
Also, if you don't know it already, there's a super mod that adds and fixes LOTS of stuff with classes/races/feats/spells etc called Kaedrin's pack. You can just install it in the Override folder and it doesn't mess anything up.
It adds VERY nice stuff for Bards. If you want to, I could give you a link.
By the way, you'll want Neeshka the Rogue for traps and chests etc.
For arcanists, you also have Sand which is a Wizard though Qara (the sorceress) is a pure pyromaniac and blaster.
Kali epitixia.
@CrevsDaak
And for a Metal Bard, there's this: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=NWN2HakpaksOriginal.Detail&id=75
Combine with Blackguard for maximum heaviness. \m/
@archaos are you also into metal? (I am actually a metalhead because of my cousins in Greece, so I know how big it is over there!)
If so you should check out my Iron Maiden Black Pits party here http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/26087/am-i-evil-yes-i-am/p1
or my Heavy Metal Wild Surge Table here https://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/27726/the-wild-bard
My first pen and paper character was actually a bard, but unlike many he wasn't really a rockstar-type character. He was more of an actor. He also was a "classic" bard who happened to use a bow.
Your builds are very interesting. I'm interested in the classic or Haer'Dalis style builds. I like the classic style but I also want to dual wield... Should I keep the classic bard as a pure bard or maybe take a prestige class? Also, what feats would I take in the classic bard? Also, would it be wrong/too expensive to make him dual-wield as well?
Iced Earth, Virgin Steele, Testament, Vader, Morbid Angel, Bloodbath etc are stuff I like.
Bards are fun. They became much more developed and versatile than in ADnD.
In 3.5 they're buffers with illusions and enchantments and some healing thrown in. They can wear Light Armor also.
I wanted to try a Haer'Dalis Bard-build as well.
Don't bother with prestige classes if you want maximum Bard effectiveness. It's a class best taken pure or with minimum dips (like Cleric or Blackguard or Fighter) to get a few bonuses.
What you'll lose if you go TWF (two weapon fighting) is some extra spells, DCs for your spells and Bard Songs and worse Diplomacy/Bluff/Perform/UMD skills.
Though a TWF Bard focuses on buffing themselves and then going into melee, like Haer'Dalis or Blades in general.
You only need 16 CHA to be able to use all your spells since a Bard doesn't advance beyond 6th spell level.
And you can increase them a bit with Nymph's Cloaks (Charisma cloaks).
Get Weapon Finesse and focus on getting the TWF feats. Two Weapon Defense is not too good, though.
With a Chain Shirt, Greater Heroism, Mirror Images and Displacement you won't get hit often and your AC will keep getting better if you increase DEX.
On some occasions you can also pull out a Longbow and go archer mode, grab a Shield (preferably Mithral) to get defensive and switch to Inspire Defense (you can say that this is the Defensive Stance), increase your skills with Inspire Competence or slowly regenerate with Inspire Regeneration. Plus you can use the various items/wands/scrolls in the game with Use Magic Device (like Use Any Item).
And in the late levels, you get Legionnaire's March which is like a mass Tenser's Transformation on top of your other bonuses.
Legionnaire's March:
" This song rallies all allies within 60 feet. The game determines the highest base attack bonus of all allies in the area of effect, and all affected characters now use this as their new base attack. All affected characters get a +4 competence bonus to damage rolls, as well. This ability lasts for 10 rounds. There is a cool down of 5 minutes (game time) before this ability can be used again. " Lingering Song makes it last 5 more rounds.
Yeah, Bards are awesome.
http://nwn2db.freeforums.org/post876.html#p876
http://nwn2db.freeforums.org/post2694.html#p2694
Rogue not strictly necessary as a wizard, sorcerer or bard can cast knock.
I'm not expert on the power builds but I think RDD generally goes better with a melee type build because of the stat increases. combine with paladin (only with sorcerer) or cleric and you get easy epic divine might for huge damage which multiplies with critical hits! there must be a proper build for one of those somewhere
Yup. OP requested a Bard build not the most overused and overpowered melee build that just has Bard in it.
Personally, I find RDD builds extremely overused and cheesy.
There are also traps which require a Rogue unless you walk over them and trigger them.
@archaos Iced Earth is my second favorite band after Maiden. Alive in Athens is the best live recording I have ever had the joy to listen to (the DVD wasn't perfect, but still great!) Matt Barlow is my favorite singer of all time, his voice is what Jesus would sound like.
Anyway, if you want to play a bard as a bard, you would want to get at least 16 levels of bard in order to make the bard song/curse song reasonably effective. In OC that leaves you with just 4 levels to play with. Here are some classes that work well as small splashes:
Base
Cleric: two free feats at level 1, access to DM/DS, armour proficiencies
Fighter: always a good addition for the extra feats, full bab, d10 hp armour proficiencies
Monk: useful if you are planning to stay unarmoured and have access to +wis equipment
Swashbuckler: 3 levels give you free finesse and insightful strike, which is very useful with +int equipment
Warlock: good for feinters with the beguiling influence, good for all bards with dark one's own luck
Prestige
Blackguard: 4 levels give you access to DM/DS, huge saves, a die of sneak attack and armour proficiencies
Duelist: 4 levels give you 4 ac with enough int and 2 free casts of haste
Pale Master: 1 level will give you 2 ac and won't hinder your spellcasting, although you will lose BAB
If you want to go the more defensive route, I'd recommend B16/C1/PM1/WLK2 with max charisma, divine shield and sword and board, if you are more interested in dealing damage, B16/BG4 with a two-hander and pumped up strength is unmatched.
The first variant will have extraordinary ac thanks to wearing a set of mithral full plate, a mithral heavy shield, pm bonus and DS with high charisma, all of that combined with the songs, blur and mirror image makes the character virtually unhittable, while your charisma combined with dark one's own luck will protect you against spells and traps. Thanks to 17 caster levels and high cha, you will have very good dcs, so you can freely use spells that have a saving throw. You'll want 13 strength (requirement for power attack, hence divine shield), 12 dex (nets 16 with leaps and bounds, giving you the +3 cap of the mithral full plate) and maxed out cha for this one. Also make sure to pick the water domain to utilise that massive reflex save of yours.
The second variant is the typical "buff up and smash faces" bloke. You won't have the survivability of the previous variant here, but it will be high enough to be safe in all but the toughest encounters. With a two-hander, power attack, divine might, greater cleave and all the damage buffs, you will be cutting through the ranks of your enemies like butter. You'll want to max out strength and get as much charisma as you can get away with in this build.
It uses 10 + caster's DEX mod for the AC of the images so for a example a Bard with 20 DEX (much more with items or buffs) can have 15+ AC on their images.
Not huge, but that makes them the best Mirror Image users in the game.
I'm playing a Moon Elf Bard on a server right now and I can switch from Heavy Crossbow (future Longbow), to Sword and Shield (defensive mode) to Dual Short Sword (offensive mode) with a click of a button while having great AC with no investment in other classes or feats at all.
DEX based also takes care of the attack bonus as well if you get Weapon Finesse. While a Charisma Bard could get Divine Might, their attack bonus would be lower. Who needs Divine Might when you can get double the enchants on your weapons plus the Inspire Courage magical damage on both weapons?
Plus, DEX adds to Initiative which makes you attack sooner.
Skills will be affected by the INT hit, but a Wood Elf (+2 DEX and +2 STR) makes a great dual weapon bard. High DEX is important there, because the high level double-weapon feats require it. One of those, for instance, gives an AC protective bonus - think of it as crediting for a small shield. And the bard songs linger; one is a healing buff, another is a skill buff, but my favorite is a party hit/damage bonus buff that seems to have a huge effect on party combat effectiveness.
http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Mirror_image
Indeed. You can get a freaking Deinonychus as an animal companion. How awesome is that?