@WebShaman: I compare the "steal and re-sell" trick to the trick of pickpocketing an item (Gaxx, Ram, for instance) and then getting another copy of the same item when its holder dies. I don't do that, either, because, again, it makes things too easy, and it shows there are flaws in the game design.
Thankfully, this is one cheese that's been put out to pasture. Edit: that is to say, it's not possible to do this in the EE games.
Aw, guys, come on, no fighting. It's a single player game, everyone can do what they want, cheese or no cheese. I think it's best to call tactics like that 'cheesy' rather then cheating: cheating is using the console or a game manager like EEKeeper. Cheesy is using the mechanics to do something that probably usually wouldn't make much sense/or be allowed by a PnP DM.
My path through chapter 2 is fairly haphazard, rushing around and doing random sidequests as they appeal and appear. This somehow tends to lead to me doing the Planar Prison far too early in the game, as I usually like to take Haer'Dalis along because blades are awesome and he amuses me. That's a tough one right out of the gate, especially with SCS installed so the last boss is an evil high level caster who destroys innocent Bhaalspawns just trying to save sparrows.
I tend to use a mod that ups the amount of gold required to rescue Imoen, so I can justify hanging around in chapter two for longer. I like to avoid going in to chapter three early- I try to see all the nighttime encounters while I'm neutral- because good at this game or not, I just hate fighting vampires. Short term protection spells necessary to fight a mob are unfun to me.
I like to kill the dragons as soon as I see them, so I usually leave Umber Hills and Wyndspear or whatever it is until after I've done almost everything else (unless I want Mazzy/Valygar, but even then I might just pick them up and skedaddle).
Usually, though, I start off with the circus. Nice and easy, that one.
Pickpocketing, used with moderation would not ruin the game.
However, what charmander 27 describes is how to get infinite money (and great experience from scroll scribing) right out of the first dungeon, just by abusing a broken mechanism.
If this is what you like, it can indeed make your game more enjoyable.
However, what i like in the game is : - seeing the progress of my character. This comes from getting experience and better items. With infinite money from pickpocketing, you immediately have access to all items you need, sus removing the sense of progression - looking forward : i still need 5k gold to buy that item. One more quest and i will get it - deserving what i get. Some classes (any arcane caster) are OP for the end game. But you have to play the game to get there.
So for me, getting infinite money is indeed a gamebreaker.
Let me ask a question : do you consider that adding 1000000 gold to your character through console or shadowkeeper to be ruining the game? Because that's exactly what abusing pickpocket does.
Once again, the point that it's available in game is moot.
summoning 10 planetars is available ingame. For some people (it was the case for me 15 years ago), it may be very enjoyable to look your summons obliterate everything in sight. However i bet you would agree that, for most, it would be a gamebreaker. Is it cheating ? No. Is it abusing a clearly broken mechanism? Yes. Can it in ruin your game? Yes
Actually the answers for abusing pickpocketing would be the same Is it cheating ? No. Is it abusing a clearly broken mechanism? Yes. Can it in ruin your game? Yes
As for fixing pickpocket : 1- master thievery potions should nt be stackable (or should not exist at all). At least you would need to work on your pickpocket skill which would balance the rewards somehow. 2- put a limit to how much items you can steal from a merchant. I mean, you really think that you could enter a shop, completely empty it in front of the owner, and get out?
@WebShaman: I compare the "steal and re-sell" trick to the trick of pickpocketing an item (Gaxx, Ram, for instance) and then getting another copy of the same item when its holder dies. I don't do that, either, because, again, it makes things too easy, and it shows there are flaws in the game design.
Thankfully, this is one cheese that's been put out to pasture. Edit: that is to say, it's not possible to do this in the EE games.
Um. Actually it is possible, at least in ToB part - I just discovered it by accident and meh; BG:EE and BG2:EE were fixed indeed.
This comes from getting experience and better items. With infinite money from pickpocketing, you immediately have access to all items you need, sus removing the sense of progression - looking forward : i still need 5k gold to buy that item. One more quest and i will get it - deserving what i get. Some classes (any arcane caster) are OP for the end game. But you have to play the game to get there.
So for me, getting infinite money is indeed a gamebreaker.
Let me ask a question : do you consider that adding 1000000 gold to your character through console or shadowkeeper to be ruining the game? Because that's exactly what abusing pickpocket does.
Well, I know a post is inaccurate when it includes going to extremes in it. FACT is, you don't have access to all items you "need", regardless of how much gold you have. You do not have the best stuff (with the exception of Balduran stuff) available in the game for sale.
So no, getting infinite (which again is a total myth, you do not have infinite gold, nor can you obtain it by stealing) gold is not a gamebreaker - even getting enough to afford every item in every shop (assuming you can carry it all) does not "break" the game, because most of the really good items are not for sale.
And I never do quests like you do - that in and of itself is mundane to me. I have to do X quests to earn Y money to...what, purchase an item?
Whatever for?
It is irksome enough having to raise the 15,000 for getting to Spellhold!
What item could possibly be worth going to such extremes here? Where are you absolutely needing some item to advance the game, or complete it?
I do quests because they pique my interest, or are "on the way" to whatever it is that my character has set as a goal, not because Charname (or some other member of the party) needs item Z!
"So, Jaheira, I hear you want a weapon, a powerful weapon. The others have told me that you have been complaining about not being able to fully contribute in combat, that you think your effectiveness is limited because everyone else has nice, new, shiny toys but you don't. I guess you weren't satisfied with that club, eh? Well, perk up! After we go wipe out some Beholders, you'll be getting your new toy! Just you wait and see!"
Nope, not happening here.
As for sense of progression...I have the feeling you are pulling a fast one here. XP and plot, not to mention completing quests and advancing romances, if any are active are not enough for you to feel a "sense of progression"?
I personally never measured my progression with gold.
I mean, it is your game, and enjoy it as you see fit; I just couldn't imagine trying to play this way.
@Charmander27 there are several vendors that accept stolen goods. The guy at the sewers and several (trademeet, slums, docks, etc) that appear at night. Also the one in the thief hideout i think.
As you can steal from them, the exploit is to sell, steal and resell them items
Considering the fact that I never even knew that this was a possibility (even after playing the game through over 20 times, though my current is my first run with/on EE and my first time in a LONG time without mods), I didn't think it was really exploiting that badly. I only was able to sell the items I actually "earned" as you call it, by killing random things or completing quests, and I only ever sold the same item once maximum. I thought all shops abided by the same rules of "not accepting stolen goods" so I never bothered to try to look for "special" shops that did. I just assumed it wouldn't work as a general mechanic.
That being said, it's a lot harder than you think to steal that many items to raise your supposed 1 million + gold. If you play without loading games from mistakes, as I do most of the time, you'll likely have your shopkeeps attacking you, because the more times you steal the more chances you have to fail and get caught.
Well, if it is just a one time theft I think it is not cheesy. Doesnt make much sense you can rob shops blind but thats a problem of being able to stock potions. Having 240 in pickpocket is basically being able to steal somebody's underwear without them noticing.
The real question is: why would a merchant sell you potions that allow you to steal? :-D
Stealing an item from a shopkeeper is very realistic if you have a decent pickpocket skill. Stealing a couple items is very reasonable too.
Stealing the shopkeepers entire inventory isn't slightly realistic. There's no level of pickpocketing skill which would enable you to get away with emptying every shelf in the shop. At some point the shopkeeper can't miss the fact that his store is now empty.
The problem is that the game mechanics are too simplistic to take this into account. So the 500th theft is treated exactly the same as the first theft. It's up to the individual player how much they want to take advantage of this.
@karnor00 i disagree. Every shop is filled with non magical weapons nobody steals and hide you stealing the good items -D
Imho a pickpocket of 240 means you are so good at it, people dont notice. These games should be seen as a book/film not reality. A film where you have the best pickpocketer in history could have a scene where he steals the whole shop and nobody notices, right? Same in this game. Trying to bring more realism than that is doomed to fail
So.. that took forever. Granted, as I stated before, I had all the strongholds open mod (and I did them all) and unfinished business - but that really doesn't add all that much in time.. just a lot more going back and forth on some fetch quests. And every companion side quest. I did everything you could possibly do in chapter 2. .. including killing Klangaxx. 262 in game days. (longer than it took me to do the whole of BG1 at 192 days.) And my swashbuckler came out of chapter 2 at level 21. Pretty OP. Didn't realize how much xp each stronghold gives you. It's basically a lot of sleeping and waiting. Gets kind of monotonous.
It is kind of funny that no stronghold really has anything specific for that class that needs to be done. Any character can do any stronghold quest.
Comments
Edit: that is to say, it's not possible to do this in the EE games.
My path through chapter 2 is fairly haphazard, rushing around and doing random sidequests as they appeal and appear. This somehow tends to lead to me doing the Planar Prison far too early in the game, as I usually like to take Haer'Dalis along because blades are awesome and he amuses me. That's a tough one right out of the gate, especially with SCS installed so the last boss is an evil high level caster who destroys innocent Bhaalspawns just trying to save sparrows.
I tend to use a mod that ups the amount of gold required to rescue Imoen, so I can justify hanging around in chapter two for longer. I like to avoid going in to chapter three early- I try to see all the nighttime encounters while I'm neutral- because good at this game or not, I just hate fighting vampires. Short term protection spells necessary to fight a mob are unfun to me.
I like to kill the dragons as soon as I see them, so I usually leave Umber Hills and Wyndspear or whatever it is until after I've done almost everything else (unless I want Mazzy/Valygar, but even then I might just pick them up and skedaddle).
Usually, though, I start off with the circus. Nice and easy, that one.
However, what charmander 27 describes is how to get infinite money (and great experience from scroll scribing) right out of the first dungeon, just by abusing a broken mechanism.
If this is what you like, it can indeed make your game more enjoyable.
However, what i like in the game is :
- seeing the progress of my character. This comes from getting experience and better items. With infinite money from pickpocketing, you immediately have access to all items you need, sus removing the sense of progression
- looking forward : i still need 5k gold to buy that item. One more quest and i will get it
- deserving what i get. Some classes (any arcane caster) are OP for the end game. But you have to play the game to get there.
So for me, getting infinite money is indeed a gamebreaker.
Let me ask a question : do you consider that adding 1000000 gold to your character through console or shadowkeeper to be ruining the game? Because that's exactly what abusing pickpocket does.
Once again, the point that it's available in game is moot.
summoning 10 planetars is available ingame.
For some people (it was the case for me 15 years ago), it may be very enjoyable to look your summons obliterate everything in sight.
However i bet you would agree that, for most, it would be a gamebreaker.
Is it cheating ? No. Is it abusing a clearly broken mechanism? Yes. Can it in ruin your game? Yes
Actually the answers for abusing pickpocketing would be the same
Is it cheating ? No. Is it abusing a clearly broken mechanism? Yes. Can it in ruin your game? Yes
As for fixing pickpocket :
1- master thievery potions should nt be stackable (or should not exist at all). At least you would need to work on your pickpocket skill which would balance the rewards somehow.
2- put a limit to how much items you can steal from a merchant. I mean, you really think that you could enter a shop, completely empty it in front of the owner, and get out?
So no, getting infinite (which again is a total myth, you do not have infinite gold, nor can you obtain it by stealing) gold is not a gamebreaker - even getting enough to afford every item in every shop (assuming you can carry it all) does not "break" the game, because most of the really good items are not for sale.
And I never do quests like you do - that in and of itself is mundane to me. I have to do X quests to earn Y money to...what, purchase an item?
Whatever for?
It is irksome enough having to raise the 15,000 for getting to Spellhold!
What item could possibly be worth going to such extremes here? Where are you absolutely needing some item to advance the game, or complete it?
I do quests because they pique my interest, or are "on the way" to whatever it is that my character has set as a goal, not because Charname (or some other member of the party) needs item Z!
"So, Jaheira, I hear you want a weapon, a powerful weapon. The others have told me that you have been complaining about not being able to fully contribute in combat, that you think your effectiveness is limited because everyone else has nice, new, shiny toys but you don't. I guess you weren't satisfied with that club, eh? Well, perk up! After we go wipe out some Beholders, you'll be getting your new toy! Just you wait and see!"
Nope, not happening here.
As for sense of progression...I have the feeling you are pulling a fast one here. XP and plot, not to mention completing quests and advancing romances, if any are active are not enough for you to feel a "sense of progression"?
I personally never measured my progression with gold.
I mean, it is your game, and enjoy it as you see fit; I just couldn't imagine trying to play this way.
That being said, it's a lot harder than you think to steal that many items to raise your supposed 1 million + gold. If you play without loading games from mistakes, as I do most of the time, you'll likely have your shopkeeps attacking you, because the more times you steal the more chances you have to fail and get caught.
The real question is: why would a merchant sell you potions that allow you to steal? :-D
Stealing the shopkeepers entire inventory isn't slightly realistic. There's no level of pickpocketing skill which would enable you to get away with emptying every shelf in the shop. At some point the shopkeeper can't miss the fact that his store is now empty.
The problem is that the game mechanics are too simplistic to take this into account. So the 500th theft is treated exactly the same as the first theft. It's up to the individual player how much they want to take advantage of this.
Imho a pickpocket of 240 means you are so good at it, people dont notice. These games should be seen as a book/film not reality. A film where you have the best pickpocketer in history could have a scene where he steals the whole shop and nobody notices, right? Same in this game. Trying to bring more realism than that is doomed to fail
It is kind of funny that no stronghold really has anything specific for that class that needs to be done. Any character can do any stronghold quest.