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Solo Insane No Equipment Sorcerer

My favorite challenge play through of SOA/TOB was a solo naked sorcerer. It was seriously awesome. Not just solo, but NO EQUIPMENT. You wouldn't think it's possible, but that's how OP sorcerers were in BG2. It wasn't even that hard if you knew the game back to front and planned it out. All it took was about fifty reloads on every tricky battle, lol.

I never played BG1 at all until recently (loved it), and now I'm wondering if a similar challenge is possible for BG1. I'd really love to do it, but I have my doubts. I've done some experiments, but I can't really picture it. The encounters are much easier than BG2, but even at max level, a sorcerer just doesn't have any spell diversity. One of the main tactics of the challenge in BG2 was skeletons + haste, which isn't even possible in BG1. Not to mention there's no Wish spell, which means you can't Wish-Rest during long battles. I'm not sure if the final battle would even be possible with such a meager spell collection. They would chew through your summons, you'd run out of Skull Traps/Magic Missiles, and...that's it. No protections, no nothing.

Has anyone else ever tried this play through in BG1? I'm doing some experiments to try and figure it out, but I thought I'd post and see if anyone has advice. Any help would be appreciated, thank you. ;)

Comments

  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    edited April 2014
    Maybe with some tactics like Polymorph :self Spider Sword + Spell sequencer Strength 18/50 you could be able to have enough damage for a whole fight like the final one.
    But then you wouldn't have Stoneskin (level 9 sorcerers only know 2 level 4 spells)

    You could try to use a few Web spells and then focus only on Sarevok.

    Post edited by Gotural on
  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,419
    Chromatic Orb, Chromatic Orb, Chromatic Orb.

    They are bound to fail that save eventually and that can be paralyzation at least and/or other effects also.

    I want to play as a Sorcerer on my next playthrough I cannot give you more details on their tactics.
    Grease, Web, Dispel Chromatic Orb, plus other AoEs that disable work wonders, I think.

  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
    I challenge you for one more rule: Min Stats!

    The minimum stats for a human sorcerer is
    Str 3
    Dex 3
    Con 3
    Int 9
    Wis 3
    Cha 9

    I done this challenge once in BG2, but havent tried this in BG.

  • golingarfgolingarf Member Posts: 154
    It sounds pretty easy actually. Solo sorcerers pretty much break the game. Traps could be a problem, though, if you didn't know where they all were.

  • xLauraxxLaurax Member Posts: 7
    golingarf said:

    It sounds pretty easy actually. Solo sorcerers pretty much break the game. Traps could be a problem, though, if you didn't know where they all were.

    Easy? With no equipment, no wands, no potions? On insane difficulty? Any solo challenge is easy with items, without them not so much, lol.

    Anyway, thanks for replies. I'll test some of those things out. The min-stats challenge is tempting. ;)

    I was thinking about using spells like Grease and Web, etc, but they become obsolete in SOA/TOB, so you wouldn't be able to import and continue the challenge. Trying to avoid that, if I can.

    The best tactic I've found for low levels is Find Familiar. Without a sling or a staff, the familiar at least provides a killing blow to thinks you've knocked unconscious with your fists after all your magic missiles/chrome orbs are gone. You don't get acid arrow till at least level four - with 10,000 xp.

    That's the main problem - without weapons and wands, you're pretty much helpless against anything with more than 20hp. It's outright impossible to kill the belt ogre before level four. He soaks up your little missiles with barely an injury, and then BAM. You and your familiar, both oneshot. With wands and slings, he's easy as nothing, but without...

    Neera's encounter in Beregost is also seems impossible pre-level four. You just don't have enough damage to kill things, and fists/familar will only get you so far. I suppose you could grind gibberlings straight out of Candlekeep until you hit level 4 (it would take just over 300, which is possible if not tedious) but that kind of takes some of the challenge out of it.

    And don't get me started on Ankhegs, lol. Summons are useless against them and the acid on their attacks even pierces stone skin. You have to be max level before you could kill one of those bastards. -.-

    Anyway, still experimenting, and I'd still appreciate advice. ;)

    What I need to do is isolate the key spell picks. The mandatory ones seem to be Find Familar, Knock (required for quests), and Polymorph Self (even in BG2 you needed polymorph/ogre to kill the magic golems, not to mention mustard jelly against liches). Any other suggestions? What would you consider the best option for summoned creatures?

  • golingarfgolingarf Member Posts: 154
    Take Protection from Petrification. Assuming you make it to the basilisks in Mutamin's Garden (which is a big assumption since you can very easily get plinked by bandits, and without items there's little you can do about it) you will be level 4 in no time, and you will level up quickly after that. You can walk around invisible all the time, whip out some high level spells, and go invisible again. That pretty much takes you through most of the game. Make sure you are invisible when moving between areas in between FAI and Nashkel, because the random encounter where you are surrounded by bandits might well kill you otherwise. Never fight ankhegs. Also, Web never, ever becomes obsolete. I even used it in the final battle of Ascension. Combine it with Spider Spawn, Greater Malison, and Minor Sequencer. Those together with Stoneskin should be your level 4 spells (you will get a fifth pick at level 23.) What order you pick them in is up to you, but I'd probably go with Stoneskin and Spider Spawn at level 9. I think you can skip Polymorph Self and go for Shapechange when you are level 20ish, which will be early in BG2. I also think Magic Missile is definitely a good idea. It's useful for dealing damage toward the end of BG1 and remains useful for disrupting enemy spellcasters and getting past Mirror Image. Also it remains relevant even in ToB when you get Improved Alacrity and can cast it six times together with two Webs in one round.

    The min stats thing complicates this a lot - that's definitely a challenge and I'm not sure I could do it. It's just too easy to get knocked off early on by a couple stray arrows, and dealing damage would be even more tedious. I would want 18 strength and 18 dex.

    xLaurax
  • golingarfgolingarf Member Posts: 154
    Oh wait, I didn't realize you literally meant no ITEMs. I read that as no magic items. Well, the lack of weapons does complicate things a little. If you're chaotic neutral, you might be able to kill the basilisks by having your cat backstab them, run away, and then come back and backstab them again. That's assuming they don't bite you, but I think their first attack is always the gaze. The cat is naturally immune to petrification.

    xLaurax
  • golingarfgolingarf Member Posts: 154
    edited January 2014
    Killing Elminster would also get you straight to level 5. A bit shameful, but you really need it. I'm sure someone will resurrect him anyway, and he'll understand. That's probably why he doesn't attack your familiar back, right?

    xLauraxSCARY_WIZARD
  • xLauraxxLaurax Member Posts: 7
    ^ Thanks a lot, that's some good tips. I think the challenge is taking shape. I'll do the first run with regular stats (for convenience and to RP a little) then I'll see about min stats. Good tip about Elminster, lol. I was leaning toward Chaotic Evil anyway. ;)

  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806
    xLaurax said:

    golingarf said:

    It sounds pretty easy actually. Solo sorcerers pretty much break the game. Traps could be a problem, though, if you didn't know where they all were.


    And don't get me started on Ankhegs, lol. Summons are useless against them and the acid on their attacks even pierces stone skin. You have to be max level before you could kill one of those bastards. -.-

    Uhh, sleep works on ankegs.
    Anyways, yes, a sorcerer is the most powerful class in the game level ~5+, hands down. (With the right spell picks)
    I would not say that a naked solo run would be easy, but it would not be all that bad, really. I actually found a sorcerer solo to be easier than a normal group, especially if you remove the XP cap, you can get level 6 spells. For firepower, just grab spiderspawn as your second level 4 pick. It won't be as bad as you think.

  • xLauraxxLaurax Member Posts: 7
    meagloth said:

    Uhh, sleep works on ankegs.
    Anyways, yes, a sorcerer is the most powerful class in the game level ~5+, hands down. (With the right spell picks)
    I would not say that a naked solo run would be easy, but it would not be all that bad, really. I actually found a sorcerer solo to be easier than a normal group, especially if you remove the XP cap, you can get level 6 spells. For firepower, just grab spiderspawn as your second level 4 pick. It won't be as bad as you think.

    Sleep, lol. I'm still new to BG1 so most times I don't even remember that spell exists. In my mind it's filed away under "utterly useless." Either way, it's not worth a pick. I want my picks to carry over into BG2. Spiderspawn looks to be necessary, though. :(

  • karnor00karnor00 Member Posts: 679
    If Korax is allowed in a solo run then you could get him to kill some Basilisks for you for easy xp.

    If not then a protection from petrification scroll should allow you + familiar to kill them. Just a couple would catapult you up to level 3 or so, which would make things considerably easier.

    Don't forget the ring of wizardry at the FAI - twice as many first level spells is a huge boost.

  • golingarfgolingarf Member Posts: 154
    I think you may not have noticed the "no equipment" thing.

    Goturaljackjack
  • twillighttwillight Member Posts: 65
    If you merge the whole series (all ToB abilities avaiable any time, exp cap removed etc.) it might be true for BG1.
    I personally have a character (called Ilmather) for BG2+ToB who reached the end of Act 3 with no item at all, then I just got bored and stored it for better times.

    Btw I do have the playthrough to that point somewhere. Can you tell the details of YOUR experiment?

    Oh, to mention, as it is a "no item" challenge, by "mage" you of course ment Sorcerer, didn't you? Scrolls count as items too...
    Could you tell your spell list?

  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,686
    edited April 2014
    It's possible to the point of being easy if you're allowed to reload.

    The first levels can be done with sleep + find familiar. You can get 5 000 experience without ever having to fight by doing some walk around quests, that's taking you to level 3. Throw in sleep and go ankheg farming with your Familiar and you'll easily get to level 5+.

    Once you get to polymorph self you can solo the game without problem in spider form. Buff up, polymorph yourself and then go to town.

    A level 9 mage will have

    Level 1 - 4 (5)
    Level 2 - 3 (4)
    Level 3 - 3 (4)
    Level 4 - 2 (3)
    Level 5 - 1 (2)

    That would be.

    Level 1 spells - Sleep
    Level 2 spells - Blur, Mirror Image, Luck.
    Level 3 spells - Ghost Armor, Minor spell Deflection, Protection from Fire.
    Level 4 spells - Improved Invisibility, Polymorph self, Stoneskin (If specialized)
    Level 5 spells - Protection from Electricity.

    A level 9 sorcerer will have

    Level 1 - 5
    Level 2 - 4
    Level 3 - 3
    Level 4 - 2

    That would be.

    Level 1 spells - Sleep
    Level 2 spells - Blur, Mirror Image, luck.
    Level 3 spells - Ghost Armor, Minor spell Deflection, Protection from Fire.
    Level 4 spells - Improved Invisibility, Polymorph self.

    Some of these picks might not be what you want for BG2, but it's a spell list that could easily handle a normal game of BG1.

    You would end up with something like this in spider form.

    -7 AC
    +5 saving throws
    100% Electricity resistance
    100% Fire resistance

    You'll have -9 AC in your normal form.

    You can pretty much remove Minor spell deflection, Protection from fire and electricity, Luck and still be able to do it. So a minimal spell list for a polymorph self mage would be.

    Level 1 spells - Sleep
    Level 2 spells - Blur, Mirror image.
    Level 3 spells - Ghost armor
    Level 4 spells - Improved Invisibility, Polymorph self, Stoneskin (If specialized)
    Level 5 spells - None

    I would also pick a fireshield if you're playing a sorcerer, as it might be useful in certain fights.

    That's not too bad for completing BG1 naked.

    I have killed Sarevok 1v1 with this build on a level 9 conjurer while naked.

    A sorcerer could do the same build, would just have to make do without stoneskin.

  • mumumomomumumomo Member Posts: 635
    Don't worry for your early levels spell picks :
    - level 1: besides magic missile and chromatic orb, nothing is remotely useful in BG2. So feel free to take useful BG1 picks : shield and sleep. -> proposed selection : summon familiar, sleep, MM, shield, chromatic orb (in that order)
    - level 2 : as stated by Golingarf, web NEVER gets old. Apart from that, i would pick the usual defensive stuff : invisibility, resist fear, mirror image

    Like Sion, i think that challenge is completely possible even no reload.

    Between basiliks (korgax), shoal (familiar), ankhegs and fetch quests you can get to level 6 with no danger at all.
    From there, using invisibility you can basically skip all the game.
    When you do need to fight web + MMM will kill anything safely (by opposition to using polymorph self, especially with no stoneskin and on insane)

    The only fight which i think will be difficult is the final one.

    Sion tactic using polymorph-self may be the best one but on insane, with no stoneskin, if he scores a critical it's gameover.

    The thing that will kill you is traps, especially on insane. Use mirror image and cross yourfingers...
    Or pick minor globe for level 4 but i don't think it is worth it

  • O_BruceO_Bruce Member Posts: 2,761
    Eventual problems with final battle? Just dire charm Sarevok and let the slaugher of his own party begin ;].

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