Actually i still favor dual wielding at level 1 since : - it's the best choice for the end game - AC cannot be relied upon, even with an AC of 2 with 2 stars in single weapon.
Anyway at level 1, if you want to live, combat must be avoided at all cost since you will die in 1 unlucky critical extra AC or not.
For that reason the best proficiency at level is axes (to get throwing axes) combined with dual wielding. Throwing axes will carry you for the first few levels. Then you can move on to dual wielding.
Once more if you really dislike dual wielding, 2 handers are better than single weapon prof, as stated above.
To summarize : at level 1 : throwing axes > 2 handers > single weapon > dual wielding. But neither single weapon or dual wielding are good enough defensively.
At level 3 or so (when you get shield amulet) throwing axes > 2 handers > dual wielding > single weapon
From BG2 dual wielding >2handers>single weapon> throwing axe
AC 4 is safe enough to avoid needing to reload with a kensai at lvl 1 from the low level archers, especially once you nab the girdle. +10% misses when people are likely to hit you, thats significant. Hobgobs and bandits dont have very low thac0.
Dont put words in my mouth, of course nobody has to worry about ranged scrubs after getting the boots. This is a known known. Also? Condescending!
...what do you want, a cookie? Soloing a +15 year old game youve played through repeatedly isnt an incredible accomplishment, and its frankly irrelevent, since i openly stated 'for a newbie', ie someone who cant metagame everything.
Oookay, now we're having this conversation? Oh yesh, the staff will totally nab more hits than a +2 weapon, which there are lots of, but since youre going all out, why not just man up wield the Stupifier?? You get free hits on stunned opponents, and zomg, you will have better AC to avoid getting pasted by the other ogres next to you. If your opponent is alone, just dw without prof while stunned. You dont think abuse of engine loopholes is 'bsd', but hunting basilisks is? speedfactor and running away, I might need to double check, but im pretty sure you cant move and fight in the same round in 2nd, ala spring attack in 3.0. The attack action represents standing and swinging for 1 minute in 2nd. At least abusing wands, basilisks and sirines (that can be taken the wrong way...) are valid options in the rules. Withdrawing iirc didnt let you attack.
I suspect you didnt read my post, since i was comparing 2h vs sws at endgame, to further the point that sws isnt always garbage, it has value at lowlevel and at the end. For an illusionist mage, what we are primarily discussing, spare profs by soa are really piling up. So its totally viable at lvl 1 to tske sws, especially for newbies, and even for a kensai, its not wasted in tob if your using the fota, and gww.
I hate discussions where the other guy didnt read my post before replying. Heck, they were short posts too.
I don't want to start a flame wars here but really, before claiming i did not read your post, you should reread yourself : you actually wrote 2 posts : - in the first one you are just speaking about FOA VS 2handers (on which i mostly disagree but i guess we can have different views) - in the second one, which i may have misunderstood (especially the "dwing" part) you explain quite abruptly how my backing of dual wielding is a silly choice.
Back to the topic, an AC of 4 or 2 is not enough at level 1, when you can die from a critical hit. And as soon as you have 2-3 more levels under your belt and a few protective items it does not matter anymore.
Although i would gladly take the cookie, I don't really need any praise from soloing the game with a kensai, which, has you stated is very easy with a good knowledge of the game.
Finally, if you read my other posts in that thread, you would see that i do share your last point, which is that single weapon is indeed viable (especially for a completely OP class like the fighter-illu). Nonetheless but i still mechanically the worst choice you could make on any character (even a single class thief).
Finally, if you read my other posts in that thread, you would see that i do share your last point, which is that single weapon is indeed viable (especially for a completely OP class like the fighter-illu). Nonetheless but i still mechanically the worst choice you could make on any character (even a single class thief) .
Not sure if I agree about the italicized part though. I think a pip in single weapon style is worth it for a backstabbing thief.
I prefer staves for backstabing (at least for mechanical purpose)
In BGEE, the +3 staff (available from the start) does 5-10 damage with 2H weapon spec. The best 1h weapon (drizzt scimitar) does 4-11. I prefer to have a higher min for backstabbing purpose.
Moreover, the staff of striking (much harder to get and limited charges) does 11-16 which will 1-2 shot almost anything while backstabbing.
in BG2EE, the staff of rynn is available from the start and does 6-11. The staff of striking is also available.
in SOA, the best 1h weapon for backstab is usuno's blade does 5-12 (celestial fury does 4-13)
Later on the staff of the ram (upgraded or not) leaves all competition miles behind.
Comments
Actually i still favor dual wielding at level 1 since :
- it's the best choice for the end game
- AC cannot be relied upon, even with an AC of 2 with 2 stars in single weapon.
Anyway at level 1, if you want to live, combat must be avoided at all cost since you will die in 1 unlucky critical extra AC or not.
For that reason the best proficiency at level is axes (to get throwing axes) combined with dual wielding.
Throwing axes will carry you for the first few levels. Then you can move on to dual wielding.
Once more if you really dislike dual wielding, 2 handers are better than single weapon prof, as stated above.
To summarize :
at level 1 :
throwing axes > 2 handers > single weapon > dual wielding. But neither single weapon or dual wielding are good enough defensively.
At level 3 or so (when you get shield amulet)
throwing axes > 2 handers > dual wielding > single weapon
From BG2
dual wielding >2handers>single weapon> throwing axe
Dont put words in my mouth, of course nobody has to worry about ranged scrubs after getting the boots. This is a known known. Also? Condescending!
...what do you want, a cookie? Soloing a +15 year old game youve played through repeatedly isnt an incredible accomplishment, and its frankly irrelevent, since i openly stated 'for a newbie', ie someone who cant metagame everything.
Oookay, now we're having this conversation? Oh yesh, the staff will totally nab more hits than a +2 weapon, which there are lots of, but since youre going all out, why not just man up wield the Stupifier?? You get free hits on stunned opponents, and zomg, you will have better AC to avoid getting pasted by the other ogres next to you. If your opponent is alone, just dw without prof while stunned. You dont think abuse of engine loopholes is 'bsd', but hunting basilisks is? speedfactor and running away, I might need to double check, but im pretty sure you cant move and fight in the same round in 2nd, ala spring attack in 3.0. The attack action represents standing and swinging for 1 minute in 2nd. At least abusing wands, basilisks and sirines (that can be taken the wrong way...) are valid options in the rules. Withdrawing iirc didnt let you attack.
I suspect you didnt read my post, since i was comparing 2h vs sws at endgame, to further the point that sws isnt always garbage, it has value at lowlevel and at the end. For an illusionist mage, what we are primarily discussing, spare profs by soa are really piling up. So its totally viable at lvl 1 to tske sws, especially for newbies, and even for a kensai, its not wasted in tob if your using the fota, and gww.
I hate discussions where the other guy didnt read my post before replying. Heck, they were short posts too.
you actually wrote 2 posts :
- in the first one you are just speaking about FOA VS 2handers (on which i mostly disagree but i guess we can have different views)
- in the second one, which i may have misunderstood (especially the "dwing" part) you explain quite abruptly how my backing of dual wielding is a silly choice.
Back to the topic, an AC of 4 or 2 is not enough at level 1, when you can die from a critical hit. And as soon as you have 2-3 more levels under your belt and a few protective items it does not matter anymore.
Although i would gladly take the cookie, I don't really need any praise from soloing the game with a kensai, which, has you stated is very easy with a good knowledge of the game.
Finally, if you read my other posts in that thread, you would see that i do share your last point, which is that single weapon is indeed viable (especially for a completely OP class like the fighter-illu). Nonetheless but i still mechanically the worst choice you could make on any character (even a single class thief).
In BGEE, the +3 staff (available from the start) does 5-10 damage with 2H weapon spec. The best 1h weapon (drizzt scimitar) does 4-11. I prefer to have a higher min for backstabbing purpose.
Moreover, the staff of striking (much harder to get and limited charges) does 11-16 which will 1-2 shot almost anything while backstabbing.
in BG2EE,
the staff of rynn is available from the start and does 6-11. The staff of striking is also available.
in SOA, the best 1h weapon for backstab is usuno's blade does 5-12 (celestial fury does 4-13)
Later on the staff of the ram (upgraded or not) leaves all competition miles behind.