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I need lore details for a mod I'm making. Anyone willing to give a hand?

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edited June 2014 in General Modding
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  • TwaniTwani Member Posts: 640
    Prayers aren't really what is needed by gods. What is needed by Gods is faith. People often show their faith by praying, of course, but someone could easily pray to a god without having any faith of them- do lip-service, in other words. So it would be rare for a temple to offer a favor and then say 'prayer' is acceptable favor. More likely, they'd ask someone to do something that proves their faith in that particular god. Remember the gong quest? (At least I think it's the gong quest.) During part of it, you need to do something for Talos that requires your faith (get a holy symbol or something?). If you're a Priest of Talos, nothing happens, as you persumedly have faith in Talos. Any other character gets hit by lightning (which, ironically, probably raises the persons faith in Talos a bit- 'Oh, I lipserviced, and he punished me. Talos is powerful!')

    Look at the temple quests for more ideas. Helm is probably the easiest one to come up with: on a stupid lawful move, a character who allows someone to cheat them with the idea that Helm is always vigilant and that Helm will punish the cheater in his own time (though that character is being stupid lawful: Helm wouldn't disapprove if you took punishment in to your own hands). Anomen's quest is a good example of this, too: when he goes to murder the man who murdered his sister (or at least the man who he thinks murdered his sister), if he is convinced not to do and to put faith that the man will be punished by the lawful authorities if he is guilty, he's showing his faith in his God and Helm the Ever Seeing's judgement.

    Things a church might ask instead of prayer could very well be 'carry out the dogma of our god'. Someone trying to get a favor from the temple of Lathander might be asked to midwife, of all things, or to teach children in Lathanders ways, to participate in some sort of athletic activity, to create an artistic work. Someone trying to get a favor from the temple of Talos might on the other hand be asked to show the destructive ways of Talos to someone: IE, go cause havoc with lightning bolts screaming "FOR TALOS" like a chaotic evil madman.

    Converting people to gods, as long as they are true conversions (not lipservicing 'False') would win points with the temples, definitely. You converting to that god would probably be an even bigger move.

    As for what aid the Temples could offer... you're talking about this in terms of help with the Bodhi fight, right? (I read your post on Gibberlings3.) I don't think any of the priests in game are high enough level to summon a Solar or Fallen Solar for that fight, sadly. Talos might send air elementals, though (or more likely, lightning elementals, but they'd just end up casting lightning bolt on everywhere and being really annoying). Helm could send a spectator beholder. Lathander is the one most likely to lend you a Solar, but we've already seen siriens associated with the faith back in BG1, so maybe that. All could send a few priests (Helm and Lathander could also send paladins, Talos maybe blackguards) and fighters, similar to how the other groups do it. The temples could probably also lend you or even give you items that offer permanent protection from evil/level drain (just level drain for Talos, but the others could do PfE)
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  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,421
    edited June 2014
    1) I doubt that most churches would accept praying as payment. Why? Because anyone could pretend-praying as @Twani said.

    There are also expenses. And it depends on the service. Perhaps a Cleric of Ilmater would do it for free but not for things that are costly. Raise Dead and Resurrection, as well as items cost to make or cast.
    More simple spells are not as costly.

    1.a. Again a @Twani said it's about faith, not praying. You could just have faith in your mind and don't pray at all.

    2) And personally, converting people as "paypent" is highly immoral for me.
    "Yeah, you resurrect my friend and I'll bring faithful to you."

    I would only allow that to evil churches. Those love getting "sheep" to pray to them. Bane, Talos, Talona etc.
    Gods that should be feared. "If you don't convert to Umberlee, she will sink your ship."

    2.a Perhaps for evil churches. "If you convert a noble to our cause, you will get benefits."
    The more important a person is, the more useful they can be.

    2) (?) A priest of Helm wouldn't pray to Talos. And would refuse if asked to. Even if threatened, they would most likely fight it out.

    Yes, heresy exists in DnD but generally it's true for the evil gods. For example in the Underdark, a Drow praying to Vhaerun or Selvertarm or Eilistraee instead of Lolth is a heretic in most cities and they do so in secret.

    With neutral gods and good gods, no. A priest of Torm wouldn't consider a priest of Selune or Mystra to be heretics. Only an idiot would do that.

    3) No, you cannot ask such favors. BUT, you can hire a priest and tell them, if you summon a Solar or other creature, you will get that much gold.

    And a good priest wouldn't summon a Solar for money. They are not random creatures. They are archangels of the heavens. They are not merceneries.

    But an evil high ranking priest would do so. "If you pay our church, I would summon a demon to help you for a while".
    Also only powerful priests and mages can summon such creatures.

    Good churches would only give such help for noble tasks, undead or demon invasion. You don't summon a Solar to kill bandits.
    Neutrals would depend on each church and usually they would remain neutral unless they were in trouble.
    Evils would do that but depending on the task, the cost would vary.

    4) Speeches:

    Talos:
    "Convert to our church or storms and tornados would come to your village/house/whatever. Refuse and destruction will follow!"

    Helm:
    "Helm is the God of Guardians. We protect and guard you and follow the laws. If you need our aid and protection, look no further."

    Lathander:
    "The Morninglord watches over you like a warm and caring father. He aids with your crops. He protects the youth with his loving embrace. He guides you in the day with his sun and warmth."

    The Talassan priest would threaten with destruction. (Chaotic Evil)
    The Helmite would offer lawful and honorable protection. (Lawful Neutral)
    The Lathanderite would persuade with good intentions. (Neutral Good)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited June 2014
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  • RhaellaRhaella Member, Developer Posts: 178
    Why wouldn't a truly evil PC ask the Shadow Thieves for help? The organization is Lawful Evil.

    There may be RP reasons to pick Bodhi over Aran, but I think that's a situation where if you end up without any help, it's your own damn fault. Siding with Chaotic Evil over Lawful Evil is not a good choice if you want allies.

    That said, yeah, having another alternative for evil PCs who can't go to the Radiant Heart would be nice.
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