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  • DjimmyDjimmy Member Posts: 749
    @drechana Totally agree with you. This hand drawn graphics of infinity engine games are stunningly beautiful and majestic. Even after a thousand years they will still be beautiful to me.

    Isn't this gorgeous!?

    http://rpgvaultarchive.ign.com/features/intelligence/images/bg2/BGII01.jpg

    P.S. The screenshot is not mine.

    Moomintroll
  • CandramelekhCandramelekh Member Posts: 109
    NWN looks much closer to BG than NWN2

  • HerrderGezeitenHerrderGezeiten Member Posts: 139
    Some people compare Dragon Age: Origins with Baldurs Gate.



    I played both of them and many other games NWN, Icewind Dale, Morrowind, Divinity(I+II), Drakensang,Might and Magic, Two Worlds, Oblivion,The Witcher,...

    Playing BG = I'm coming home again.

    A part of live is not a game, BG is not a game any more for me.

    Djimmy
  • immagikmanimmagikman Member Posts: 664
    Tanthalas said:

    If Skyrim accomplished something it was to have a crap load of items inside rooms. Several times I ended up stealing from shops by accident.

    That was true all the way back to Morrowwind you could end up with a shitton of stuff in your little hidey holes :)

    Moomintroll
  • jpierce55jpierce55 Member Posts: 86
    The original NWN campaign lacked color. It was overly dark, and rough on my eyes. The Infinity engine games tended to have bright and vibrant colors. The graphics still aren't the worst thing in the world to look at.

  • PaheejPaheej Member Posts: 126
    A lot of the posters in this thread have covered the downsides of NWN.
    1. No "true" party
    2. No fleshed out NPCs
    3. The game looks dull and uninspiring

    But here's the big one guys . . .
    4. It really wasn't much fun to play

    I mean the combat was dull, stilted, and lacked interesting encounters. Ok, ok, I admit I never made it past the prison, but really why would you play the game if it wasn't that much fun?

    Lastly the Dragon Age games are great. They aren't as good as the BG games but do have . . .
    1. Interesting environments
    2. A "true" party system
    3. Fleshed out NPCs
    4. A Solid combat system
    They are certainly worth playing if you are an RPG fan.

    Flameguard27
  • lmaoboatlmaoboat Member Posts: 72
    edited August 2012
    mch202 said:

    Jolanthus said:

    As Dragon Age was billed as being the Spiritual successor to BG

    lines like this always make me laugh :-)
    For a spiritual successor, Dragon Age didn't seem to have much "spirit" to me. If anything, I found Mass Effect to better "spiritual" successor. I found it was way better at capturing that sense of comradery and adventure that gives me that warm fuzzy feeling in BG.

    immagikmanmch202GrandeC
  • jpierce55jpierce55 Member Posts: 86
    @Paheej I have to agree the original campaign was a major disappointment. I do think the expansions were good.

  • BjjorickBjjorick Member Posts: 1,208
    @op one of the things i love about the original xenogears is how gritty and dirty the world is. when a world is too clean, then yeah, it doesn't feel real. i guess it does depend on the game though, as xenogears was a gritty dirty game, but i saw xenosaga the same way, but the world around it was so clean it was immersion breaking. maybe that's not what you mean, but if so, you're not the only one

  • GaelicVigilGaelicVigil Member Posts: 111
    edited August 2012
    Divine Divinity was also a great example of nice art direction.

    I didn't like DA:O at all. Tiny race/class selection, overly long dialog (never understood why Bioware treats its players like we can't read more than one sentence at a time), and "too clean" environments with lots of invisible walls.

    I think it's the uncanny valley of environments. When you start making them too realistic, your mind expects it to not break down at certain points (invisible walls, un-openable doors/chests/barrels, etc). Most 3D games suffer from this, where 2D games like Baldur's Gate do not.

  • jpierce55jpierce55 Member Posts: 86
    I think Divinity II did a good job in the area transitions, it seemed to hold a similar style to BG.

  • jpierce55jpierce55 Member Posts: 86
    I think Divinity II did a good job in the area transitions, it seemed to hold a similar style to BG.

  • PaheejPaheej Member Posts: 126
    Hmm @GaelicVigil and @jprierce55
    I'll have to investigate the Divine Divinity games, considering I have both of them . . . you know, in that 350 game backlog that is lower in priority than playing BG again for the nth time.

    immagikman
  • fighter_mage_thieffighter_mage_thief Member Posts: 262
    The 3D graphics in games were very interesting when they first came on the scene. My most memorable experiences were of Mario, Donkey Kong, and the Zelda games for N64. But generally, I find I prefer 2D to 3D, whether it be for games or cartoons (i.e. machinema vs a 2D cinematic).

  • lmaoboatlmaoboat Member Posts: 72
    edited August 2012
    The 3D graphics in games were very interesting when they first came on the scene. My most memorable experiences were of Mario, Donkey Kong, and the Zelda games for N64. But generally, I find I prefer 2D to 3D, whether it be for games or cartoons (i.e. machinema vs a 2D cinematic).
    When 3D games started coming out, even then some part of my young mind saw them as ugly and awkward first steps, or as Yahtzee put it, "badly made origami polio victims"

  • StrangeCatStrangeCat Member Posts: 39
    Dragon Age was one of the worst games I have ever played I never even finished it. It was horrible game design!
    Pathetic Music direction, Cliche' characters, horrible character interaction.t
    The world was boring full of nothing, with towns that were just as boring.
    it lacked a main focus, and the list is never ending.

    Want to play not clean game that is realistic play Witcher and Witcher 2.
    Those games are beyond what these other developers are doing.

    That's what happens when you are a dev controlled by you that created the company
    and have a complete passion for what you are doing.

  • EidolonEidolon Member Posts: 99
    I prefer BG1 and BG2 visuals any day. Neverwinter Night looked clinical and not really natural at all. The beauty of BG1 and BG2 is the beautifully crafted static backgrounds. They are so detailed compared to Neverwinter Night's area. You can't even compare.

  • KenKen Member Posts: 226
    Icewind Dale had the best graphics.. All those pretty colours from spells, and killing giant Ettins..

    Looking forward to the EE version of that, oh, and it had the original BG1 models! Rejoice!

  • DjimmyDjimmy Member Posts: 749

    Some people compare Dragon Age: Origins with Baldurs Gate.



    I played both of them and many other games NWN, Icewind Dale, Morrowind, Divinity(I+II), Drakensang,Might and Magic, Two Worlds, Oblivion,The Witcher,...

    Playing BG = I'm coming home again.

    A part of live is not a game, BG is not a game any more for me.

    Exactly!

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,302
    edited August 2012
    The 3D games I gave a try in the 00's were NWN, NWN2, Morrowind, and KotOR. There may be better ones now, or even back then. But in the 3D games that I did try, I kind of felt like the 3D animation called attention to the fact that I was interacting with an artificial or virtual environment. And the gaming experience suffered in the comparison to the visual experience of physical reality. Especially when it came to creature movement and facial expression.

    The overall sense of the 3D environment was kind of mesmerizing at first. And in some cases renderings of the backgrounds could be beautiful. But after that wore off I was always left with the sense of 'this is a simulation of reality'.

    (And I say this as someone who did a lot of toolsetting--especially area building--for NWN/NWN2 for ALFA and Exodus.)

    With the BG series' artwork and fixed 2D isometric perspective there was no pretense whatsoever to the fact that I was playing a game--and the game itself rocked. Naturally, it helps also that BG/BG2's game mechanics/ruleset, story, and characters were all topflight.

    Post edited by Lemernis on
  • NancyButtpeachNancyButtpeach Member Posts: 38
    I disliked the art in NWN; it was too bland. I prefer the hand-drawn art of adventure games and games like BG. My favorite palette is actually 256 colors, and my favorite style is that used in Heroes of Might and Magic 2.

  • sphexussphexus Member Posts: 11
    edited August 2012
    This topic goes straight to the point. IMO every Infinity-engine game looks more appealing with their 'hand-painted' graphics than soulless 3D-engine games. 2D makes possible so much more vivid and lifelike textures and backgrounds than bland polygonized worlds. And especially in RPGs & RTS' where it creates the immersion for me. Nowadays developers seem to walk around the fence entirely when creating visual atmospheres. Everything looks just too polished and cold. It's like using just glass and steel in buildings, modern but all warmness is lost. Of course it's what nowadays audience usually wants so can't blame only the makers.

    I'm not saying this is the case in every genre of games because FPS' have gained the leverage with modern graphics. But it's sad that this kind of development has also turned towards isometric games because with 3D you can't just make so vibrant worlds without kicking down every modern computer.

    So basicly I'm on the same side with everyone in this topic. :)

    drechana
  • MississippiGhostMississippiGhost Member Posts: 20
    There is a common misconception here.

    Baldur's Gate and many other isometric RPGs are NOT hand-painted. The backgrounds are pre-rendered images from a *drumroll* 3D engine! Hence 3D is intrinsically able to provide visuals like in the BG games.

    The only question is if we can do it in real-time or pre-rendered, and this just depends on how much computing power we have avaiable. Early real-time 3D games naturally suffered from the lack of this power, but as mentioned in this topic they were a necessary learning experience. We are still not quite there yet, but give it 10 years and we will be able to run BG-level detail and much, much higher in real-time, with all its advantages - dynamic lighting, realistic physics and more player interaction with the environment.

    Also, complaints that real-time 3D games are "soulless", "cold" or "without spirit" are intangible and without substance. Criticism of a game's art should be done on a case-by-case basis, not by sweeping generalizations about the underlying technique. A preference for photography does not rob all motion pictures of beauty and meaning.

    And yes, there are alot of bad and mediocre real-time 3D games out there. Because there are a lot of bad and mediocre games out there.

    neleothesze
  • GaelicVigilGaelicVigil Member Posts: 111
    edited August 2012

    There is a common misconception here.
    Also, complaints that real-time 3D games are "soulless", "cold" or "without spirit" are intangible and without substance. Criticism of a game's art should be done on a case-by-case basis, not by sweeping generalizations about the underlying technique. A preference for photography does not rob all motion pictures of beauty and meaning.

    No, pretty much all of them are cold and soulless. I can't think of a single one that actually competes, artistically, with a finely done pre-rendered game like Baldur's Gate. Even modern games like Skyrim and Dark Soul's environments look like sterilized movie sets compared to the locales in Baldur's Gate.

  • Space_hamsterSpace_hamster Member Posts: 950

    There is a common misconception here.

    Baldur's Gate and many other isometric RPGs are NOT hand-painted. The backgrounds are pre-rendered images from a *drumroll* 3D engine! Hence 3D is intrinsically able to provide visuals like in the BG games.

    The only question is if we can do it in real-time or pre-rendered, and this just depends on how much computing power we have avaiable. Early real-time 3D games naturally suffered from the lack of this power, but as mentioned in this topic they were a necessary learning experience. We are still not quite there yet, but give it 10 years and we will be able to run BG-level detail and much, much higher in real-time, with all its advantages - dynamic lighting, realistic physics and more player interaction with the environment.

    Also, complaints that real-time 3D games are "soulless", "cold" or "without spirit" are intangible and without substance. Criticism of a game's art should be done on a case-by-case basis, not by sweeping generalizations about the underlying technique. A preference for photography does not rob all motion pictures of beauty and meaning.

    And yes, there are alot of bad and mediocre real-time 3D games out there. Because there are a lot of bad and mediocre games out there.

    Well, get back to us in 10 years. For now we have the infinity engine with hand drawn scenery! ;)

  • immagikmanimmagikman Member Posts: 664
    Im trying to think of which parts of Skyrim are cold, soulless and empty....seems fair well fleshed out to me...

    Jolanthus
  • NancyButtpeachNancyButtpeach Member Posts: 38
    Skyrim is well-made with nice graphics- a great game. But it is still surpassed, in many ways, by Daggerfall.

    However, as I have said before, I prefer hand-drawn art with a 256 or SVGA color scheme. I also prefer some of the older music formats. I find that these things work together to create a great fantasy environment- think HoMM 2

    alannahsmith
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