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Imoen thief skills inactive after dual-class

I dual-classed Imoen to a Mage when she hit level 6 as a Thief. I just reached level 6 as a Mage and her thief skills are inactive. I thought I would be able to use her thief skills when Mage reached her thief level...?

Comments

  • baldurskjdbaldurskjd Member Posts: 67
    You need to have your new class one level higher than the old class.

    JuliusBorisovCaptRoryMusigny
  • LuremasterLuremaster Member Posts: 100
  • jaynjayjaynjay Member Posts: 12
    I'm in Baldur's Gate City now and have completed everything up until then. Don't know if I will ever reach level 7

  • LuremasterLuremaster Member Posts: 100
    edited March 2015
    jaynjay said:

    I'm in Baldur's Gate City now and have completed everything up until then. Don't know if I will ever reach level 7

    Definitely. Especially if you haven't done TotSC yet

    atcDaveMusigny
  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    There is over 200k experience per character (assuming 6 man party) in the game if you do everything in a completionist matter (without farming), which is more than the experience cap for BG1. In other words, you will be able to reach lv7 Mage no problems with Imoen unless you rush straight to the endgame.

    If you have not made a visit to Ulgoth's Beard, I highly recommend it, it's a very nice scenic fishing village, great for little excursions. :smile:

    LuremasterJuliusBorisovproccoCaptRory
  • proccoprocco Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 915
    Heindrich said:

    If you have not made a visit to Ulgoth's Beard, I highly recommend it, it's a very nice scenic fishing village, great for little excursions. :smile:

    Just make sure you bring a really big fishing rod!

  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    @jaynjay - I usually dual-class Imoen to Mage at level 7 instead of level 6, and even so I get her Thief abilities back (i.e. level 8 Mage) in plenty of time for the big end-game battles. Being in BG City is still only around (or a little less than) half-way through the game, assuming that you haven't yet done the Ulgoth's Beard content.

    The only problem with late-dualling Imoen is that it does mean that your party needs someone else as Thief for quite a while, to deal with traps and locks.

    atcDave
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    I usually try to dual her pretty early. I wanna get her back into action asap. I aim for 100 Find Traps, 70ish Open Locks, and anything else is just gravy.

  • YupImMadBroYupImMadBro Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 347
    What level would people recommend dualling Imoen over to Mage? I know she does at 7 in terms of BGII but that seems fairly late if parties are depending on her to be the only Thief.

  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    I usually do it around level 4 or 5. Sometimes I'll push it off til later but not any later than 7 or she'll never get her thief levels back. Sometimes I'll give her a thief kit that might get me to hold off for an extra level, like Swashbuckler, but generally I just want to get her the bare minimum of thief skills then move on to magery.

    YupImMadBro
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 1,933
    I would really recommend not making the switch in BG. Unless you are desperate for another mage, and have another thief in the party; I think it works best to just let her be a great thief in BG1.

  • YupImMadBroYupImMadBro Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 347
    I would usually agree but I am making my latest play through as "canon" as possible for when Adventure Y comes out. I will dual her to Mage although I rather keep her a single class thief. Just need her to be able cast a Magic Missile and unlock a jail cell by SoA.

  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    @YupImMadBro There is a significant time gap between BG1 and BG2, so it's not a stretch to imagine that Imoen picked up her mage skills in that period.

    Yes there is the problem that Imoen will probably surpass Thief lv7 if you keep her as a pure thief in BG1, but then I don't interpret BG game mechanics as "literal truths", and think of them more as an approximation of what is happening in my roleplaying world. For example the Dual-class mechanism is rather unrealistic when you apply realistic logic to it. I have started to study magic, oops I've suddenly forgot everything I knew about traps and stealth!

    CaptRory
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    I dual Imoen at level 7 mainly for canonical reasons, since I like to play BG1+2 as a continuous campaign (so far as the mechanics permit).

    Nevertheless, level 7 seems to me quite a good time for it, because she's maxed-out in the key skills of Find Traps and Open Locks, and I therefore need no other Thief, nor any Thieving potions for the essential skills. I don't like to dual her before she's fully competent in both of those key skills, because if she's in my permanent party for BG1, then that usually means that I'm also intending to take her along in BG2, in which case I'll probably rely on her as sole Thief in BG2. I therefore wouldn't dual her before at least level 6, so I figure that I might as well be more thoroughly canonical and dual her at level 7.

  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    As far as canonicalnessity (it's a perfectly cromulent word!) I'll often use KEEper to edit the new BG2 games so everyone matches their stats at the end of BG1. Anything they gain is just recompense for having to go through the trouble of editing the dang save game. XD

    atcDave
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    @CaptRory - so in the case of those characters which by default start BG2 with better stats than they had in BG1, you're going to reduce their stats?

  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    Nopearooni- "Anything they gain is just recompense for having to go through the trouble of editing the dang save game. XD" In fact their stats may go up since this way I'm not wasting the stat books if I use them on someone other than the PC.

  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    But @CaptRory, some of them start BG2 with better stats than could have been achieved with the BG1 Tomes. There's only one of each Tome in BG1 (except for 3 in the case of Wisdom), and there are more stat increases gifted at the beginning of BG2 than would be possible with one Tome per stat. So if you're going to make a consistent adjustment for Tome use, as opposed to merely cheating, then you'll need to reduce the stats of some characters.

  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    @Gallowglass Not quite. There are two things to look at:

    1) Things that can be explained away as the characters' actions between games.
    2) Things that can't happen because of the way the rules and the game is setup.

    The first part can cover learning new magic spells, gaining stat points, gaining hit points, even gaining levels.

    The second part would be like... adding or losing levels if it violates the rules (Imoen going from Thief 4/Mage 7 to Thief 7/Mage 8 since you can't add levels to a class after dualing out of the class), changing kits, etc. You can easily adjust 2 while keeping 1 in mind.

    The third thing to keep in mind, sort of a meta-thing:

    3) This is supposed to be a game to have fun with. If you don't want to make more work by carefully reducing thief skills to be exact and would rather ballpark it, or want to just add in what you've added from stat books and not worrying about an extra point here or there... no one should be telling you that you're playing it wrong.

  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    Losses as well as gains can be "explained away as the characters' actions between games". For example, Imoen has lost most of her spells, but we can suppose that this was due to Irenicus experimenting on her mind, and Minsc has changed alignment, but we can suppose that this was due to losing Dynaheir.

    Making changes to how "the game is set up" at the the start of BG2 to reflect the situation at the end of a particular run of BG1 could be a legitimate exercise, but a key difference between legitimate modification and merely cheating is the willingness to make disadvantageous changes required by that scenario as well as advantageous ones.

  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    "but a key difference between legitimate modification and merely cheating is the willingness to make disadvantageous changes required by that scenario as well as advantageous ones."

    That may be your point of view. If one is playing Single Player that is up for the player to decide. I choose not to care about things that would double the effort required to get things to line up between the games and chalk it up to a bonus for putting in the effort just to get things to line up. There's no easy button to push to get things to match (and if there is I'd appreciate someone telling me about it) and I don't care to go through double the effort to make my characters suck more. So when I adjust down Imoen's thief levels and thief scores she's going to come out slightly ahead (I think it reapplies the various bonuses, not sure) because I don't want to do a bunch of extra math to get it to work out. Jaheira might end up with an extra attribute point or two because I don't want to add an extra step.

  • ElysiumElysium Member Posts: 28
    I know it's non-canon and technically not possible for farcical D&D reasons, but I enjoy Imoen more as a multi thief mage. I think the dualing mechanic (as AD&D works) doesn't make sense for her character ("Ooh, I like magic, so I'll forget everything I enjoyed about thieving and mischief and now only be a mage.... 10ish levels later... Now I'll pick up my thieving skills as a side hobby, but magic is my passion."), but a multi works much better and mages are so mediocre in the first levels that it's easy to see Imoen as picking up 1 or 2 simple spells from stealing the monks' spellbooks.

    CaptRory
  • SkieSkie Member Posts: 90
    I'd be happy if it was easy to give BG2 Imoen a bit more thief experience (i.e. levels), according to having played her only as a thief in BG1. It seems like it would be quite an editing task.

    And you'd have to do it twice, once for each version of BG2 Imoen

    CaptRory
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    Skie said:

    I'd be happy if it was easy to give BG2 Imoen a bit more thief experience (i.e. levels), according to having played her only as a thief in BG1. It seems like it would be quite an editing task.

    Well, no, not particularly difficult. About 5 minutes work.
    Skie said:

    And you'd have to do it twice, once for each version of BG2 Imoen

    Hmm, well actually the game includes twenty versions of Imoen, not just two, if you include every "Bhaalspawn-dreams" Imoen as well as joinable versions of Imoen. I actually edit every single one of them, because it's my preference that a dualled character should use the sprite of her second class (i.e. be dressed as a Mage) rather than continuing with the sprite of her original class (i.e. be dressed as a Thief, which is the default appearance) ... but obviously that's a purely cosmetic change, I'm not changing anything which affects play in any way. Even so, it only takes about 20 minutes work to change it for every Imoen.


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