Help with building a cleric in NWN2, BG and BGR
Wandering_Minstrel
Member Posts: 197
in Off-Topic
I have been playing NWN2 lately. I usually play warrior oriented classes in the BG / IWD / NWN games. But I would like to play a cleric for the first time, just not sure how to build / play him. I am sure that playing a cleric in NWN2 (and 1) is different than playing one in BG since they are different editions. I have seen guides (for NWN1 and 2) online on how to create a cleric but not how to play one throughout the games. What spells to pick, how many in each slot (for example 2 cure light wounds and 1 endure elements or 1 cure light wounds and 2 magic weapons, etc). I hear that favored souls are somewhat like clerics and cast spells like sorcerers (which is what I prefer) but lack turn undead. I plan on making a cleric of Kelemvor / doomguide for NWN2 OC and MOTB.
When I get back to the BG games I would like to try a cleric of Lathander for both AD&D BG and BGR (BGR is baldur's gate reloaded, a mod for NWN2).
What domains would you recommend? I only want to choose domains associated with that particular god (such as law for Kelemvor or good for Lathander).
I also want to note that I am not into powergaming. I see many builds that are a/b/c/d. I do not want any of that when building a character.
When I get back to the BG games I would like to try a cleric of Lathander for both AD&D BG and BGR (BGR is baldur's gate reloaded, a mod for NWN2).
What domains would you recommend? I only want to choose domains associated with that particular god (such as law for Kelemvor or good for Lathander).
I also want to note that I am not into powergaming. I see many builds that are a/b/c/d. I do not want any of that when building a character.
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I am not a power gamer, so I will probably just say that 'Go pure' cleric. You can look up whatever domains your individual Deity has control over and select from them. I would also recommend AGAINST favored soul, particularly in the OC of NWN2. You will want that turn undead ability.
As for attributes, there are a lot of different directions to go.
If you are going to play a warrior/priest type cleric, you want to go heavy on WIS - STR and CHA. Then you want to go more combat Buff style spells so that you can actually be a more powerful fighter than any straight fighter. You can even go warpriest prestige class which will make you more powerful.
If you are going more of a support/buffer, you are still going to want to go heavy WIS and CHA, but maybe more on DEX or CON to make up the difference. Then obviously you can go more healing and buff/debuff spells. The thing is that the OP has a lot of healing, so you may not be as useful if you go that direction, and it is more passive. If you go into Storm of Zehir, there are still other options here and you may find healing to be more beneficial.
Then you can decide to have your cleric abilities merely augment your character, but then you have to get into really planning out your class choices in a more powergamer type style. And nwn2db will really help you there.
If you want my suggestion, keep it simple and go combat cleric. Keep all (or almost all, if you are feelling adventurous) of your levels cleric and work on getting your WIS and CHA to 20 and Then work on STR. There is a high level ability called EDM (Epic Divine Might) that will crush your enemies when used (properly??). That should get you a satisfying experience without having to power game.
NWN2 has a BUNCH of prestige classes which you really should look into and download. That will give you more 'Pure cleric' options and may make things more fun.
Enjoy.
I usually fill up my cantrip slots with Light, my first level slots with Protection from Evil and Protection from Elements, my second level slots with offensive spells and Lesser Restoration, and so on.
Also, you rarely need a Cure spell anyway, since resting is easy and restores full health. Sometimes I use some Cures just to roleplay more realistic resting and reduce the intervals between rests, but the game doesn't require it.
You can access spontaneous casting through the quickspells menu. There's a toggle button in the upper right of that screen. It puts little plus signs inside the converted spell icon, meaning that spell will cast as a Cure spell if you use it. Those converted spell icons can be dragged from the quickspell menu to the quick bars if you wish.
Druids can convert their spells to Summon Animals spells, so if you want a druid to use Cure spells, you memorize the actual Cures. In a druid's case, it is a waste of spell slots to memorize the main Summon Animal spell for that level.
BTW, clerics are arguably the most powerful class under 3rd edition rules. They can do just about anything in the game - offensive/defensive magic, buffing, melee, or even some thief abilities. People joke about the "Codzilla class" - "Cleric or druid Godzilla", because they're such powerful "monsters".
To answer on playing a Cleric I always play them as Necromancers. I know it's not directly allowed but I've always wanted to play a Cleric of Jergal in NWN2 with the Undeath and Suffering Domains that becomes a Doomguide of Kelemvor since Jergal serves Kelybro. With Jergal's permission he'd use Undead to hunt down other Undead.
Edit: Also I should mention I have a bunch of mods installed that adds 3.5 classes, prestige classes, spells, and domains. I believe the suffering domain is from one of the mods.
for background level 1 feats, I always choose spell casting prodigy for my spell casters, but if you want to be more melee combat orientated then I would go with luck of heros instead
for skills, you definitely want to crank concentration of coarse, and if you have some left overs I would crank spellcraft and tumble - for every 5 ranks you have in spell craft you get a +1 bonus on saves vs spells ( which obviously is really damn good) and for every 10 ranks you have in tumble you get +1 to AC ( now granted its a cross class you will probably only get +1 AC maybe +2 if you go to mask of the betrayer, but you only need to make a DC of 15 to tumble in combat for attacks of opportunity, which is pretty easy to pass if you have decent dex with some tumble skill )
and if you are playing mask of the betrayer, after you have 10 levels of cleric and 10 levels of doomguide I would probably start getting ready to build for 10 levels of war priest because after level 20 you don't get anymore spells per day, so more levels in cleric is kind of pointless
or if you are more combat oriented maybe take levels in champion of torm, if you have some charisma you will get some wicked saves and some combat feats and whatnot, but definitely think/prepare to take some other class for epic levels, because as I say, there is no point in having more than 20 levels of divine spell casting, and especially with clerics, they can be okay in melee, so don't be afraid to add some melee classes in the end
and remember you can have a total of 4 classes altogether, so what I would probably do is 5 levels of cleric, then switch over to doomguide, then after level 10 of doomguide, level cleric back up to level 10, then probably switch over to champion of torm for the epic levels
race wise, best choices are either human or aasimar, - humans of coarse have that extra feat and extra skill per level, and aasimars have +2 wis/cha which is awesome but +1 EL which is kind of crap, but aasimars with spell casting prodigy and beginning the game with 20 wis is pretty badass, so its a toss up for preference
actually now that I come to think of it, as you long as you choose the luck domain you will get luck of heros for free, so then choosing spell casting prodigy I would say would be mandatory, and for a cleric one of my favourite background traits is devout I believe it's called because I believe it gives +1 to concen checks and +1 to will saves or some jargon on those lines
Strength is one you could potentially skimp on, as spells like DUHM, Strength of One, Holy Power and Champion's Strength can all temporarily boost it to acceptable levels.
(DUHM also boosts Dex and Con, of course)
Intelligence and Charisma don't contribute anything more than they do for Warriors and Thieves.
Edit:
The Min/Max solution would be S18,D18,C16,I11,W18,Ch3 (an 84 roll), with the usual adaptations for race.
I am still in the creation process for both human and aasimar. I am not sure which one I will use first. With the human I chose the recommended stats for ability scores. Similar with aasimar except I subtracted two from CON and added two to INT so I could have 12 points instead of 8. I plan on using points in concentration, diplomacy and spellcraft. Possibly more if I need to adjust my INT.
I am either going for cleric/doomguide or cleric/doomguide/warpriest. If I choose either of those when would be a good idea to switch classes? I have heard that the warpriest class is underwhelming. Is that true?
I am choosing the law and travel domains (both are Kelemvor domains) and choosing the lawful neutral alignment. What is the easiest way to stay LN? Seems like it is almost impossible to keep a neutral alignment. I usually end up LG or CG (seems like lying is chaotic but not evil). Am I supposed to do some good and some evil to keep a neutral alignment? And as far as law vs. chaos; alternate between telling the truth and lying to keep some NG or N balance?
For my aasimar I would choose the spellcasting prodigy feat. With human I would start off with SP and either extra turning or great fortitude.
If I am going more the war / battle priest route (if I cannot balance between that and spellcasting) I assume I would have to change my ability stats but what would I sacrifice to get good STR? How will I be able to get STR 21 if my WIS and CHA need to be high as well (assuming I want to get Epic Divine Might)?
@abacus, I will take your advice when I play BG / IWD again.
Thanks everyone!
If you want a more combat oriented cleric, you want a stormlord, although if you are into roleplaying and sticking to lore, that's a completely different story. More than that, if you want a combat cleric, you would definitely benefit from multiclassing into a fighter. 8 levels of fighter will give you access to Greater Weapon Focus, and Epic Weapon Focus in the epics, for a grand total of +3 uncapped AB. Even if you don't want to bother with those, just a single level of Fighter will let you pick Divine Might as soon as level 3, as well as giving access to tower shields, and that's a no-brainer in my book.
Spellcasting prodigy is only good for a spellcasting cleric, duh. If you are planning to spend your time in melee, it basically just gives you an extra level 3-4 spell slot, as your DC will not be high enough and you will mostly be using your spell slots for buffs anyway.
Speaking of buffs, combat clerics are bloody tedious. You will generally need to have 8-10 buffs to maximise your combat potential. Thankfully, most of those can be persisted, but you will only be able to get Persistent Spell when you are able to cast level 6 spells, and only fully benefit from it when you are a level 17 cleric. Just be prepared to rest a lot during the early stages of the game.
Speaking of Domains, you can of course pick the canon ones and deal with it, but some domains are just so much better than the others. Time gives you access to Haste (so does Travel, but as a level 5 spell, meaning you can't persist it), Earth gives you Toughness for free, as well as access to Stoneskin, Water gives you Evasion and access to Ice Storm, which is one of the more powerful aoe spells in the game thanks to having no save, Strength gives you access to Divine Power as a level 3 spell, meaning you can have virtually twice as many casts of Extended Divine Power per day, as well as early access to one of the most powerful buffs in the game, Trickery gives you Feint for free, which is very useful if you are planning to go that route and either don't have the Int or are feat starved, Darkness gives you Blind Fight for free, which is a very important feat against enemies with concealment (less so on a Doomguide though, thanks to Ethereal Purge). The most important thing for you to consider is the Undeath Domain, as it will give you Extra Turning for free, and that's a prereq for Doomguide.
Now, the main dilemma with Clerics: a huge amount of their abilities depend on their Charisma: Turn Undead, DM, DS and EDM being the most important. However, their spellcasting is Wis-bound, and they also need Strength to hit things if they plan on going melee (or Dex, but that's a rare occasion).
Since you are leaning towards playing a Doomguide, you are likely going to focus on turning undead, which means having a high charisma. Having a high charisma means you should consider getting 2 levels of Paladin to get a whopping boost to your saves.
If you prefer going melee, you will likely want to get to EDM at some point. EDM requires 21 in both Str and Cha, so you will need at least 17 and 16 in Strength and Charisma at the beginning to be able to pick it up and have both stats remain even. That will leave you with 9 points remaining to pump into your other abilities. With 16 in both, you will have to leave one of the stats at an odd number, so you will have to decide if that's worth it for you. Naturally, the lower your stats are, the later you will be able to pick up EDM.
What's left: your Wisdom will be rather abysmal for a cleric, so in order to be able to cast spells, you will need a +Wis item (+5, to be precise, unless you completely dump Con and Int). Thankfully, it's not hard to craft or buy one in OC.
Also, you will be too feat-starved and slow to progress with an Aasimar, so don't bother.
Anyway, here's what a decent-ish Doomguide with canon domains would look like
I will continue and finish my Cleric of Lathander run in BGR and eventually play a cleric in BGEE / BG2EE.