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Justice League team build

Hey guys, just wanted to get some thoughts and some advice about a team I'm building as a returning player, having played IWD on the PC when originally released without heart of winter.

I have been experimenting with a Marvel Avengers based team (please see post https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/44473/superhero-mainstream-team-builds-for-black-pits-iwd#latest about my BG black pits team if interested) but for IWD I have been thinking of a Justice League based D&D build.

My original team in the vanilla IWD without any new kits and races were pretty straightforward: A paladin leader, a dwarven fighter, a human female cleric, a fighter/thief as an archer, a bard as a backup archer and secondary spell caster an elven conjurer as my main mage. Obviously I want to spice my second game up with kits and multi/dual classes together with the Justice League in D&D role-play a little to make it more interesting. So here are my ideas which need tweaking.

Firstly the Big Three who are a must:

Superman as a leader: Has to be a Lawful Good Paladin (unless any better role-play ideas?) as it just fits his persona. Obviously limited to human but I would try to get potions or items to get his strength up to 19 and try to roll a high 18/xx initially. Was thinking of a Cavalier kit as fits his character the best with it's inherent resistances and chivalrous, fearless ethos. For the game would an inquisitor fare better though? I've read its pointless having an undead hunter as they are common but easy to beat.

Batman: Chaotic Good Human Kensai dualed to thief. Always wanted to try this combo, having missed out on the kensai dual classes in my first run in the original BG2 as a monk. I'm running a Kensai protagonist in my BG:EE run who will dual into a mage during dragonspear and BG2EE, so thought this would be the best opportunity to try the fabled kensai/thief that can use any item and wreak backstab havoc). Fits in with Batman's persona as a rogue with immense martial conditioning. I also toyed with a Fighter/Thief multiclass or even a Stalker, but having tried the former and being unimpressed with the latter and having discounted the thief kits am settling for this. Question is when to dual class?

Wonder Woman: A bit of a conundrum here. Would be easy to label her as a fighter or even a barbarian given her Amazon heritage. I want to think laterally about this and incorporate a healer somehow into my party and given that her power originates from the Goddess Athena I think throwing in a bit of druid as it would fit in with the whole Amazon and nature concept and with druids getting much love in IWD. However I am unsure about the fighter/druid multiclass (and it's been done before with Jahiera) and keeping in with the Barbarian warrior concept trying a Berzerker/Druid dual class. The main issue with this is losing the fighter skills for a long period if dual classed late and also having no healer at the beginning unless I can role play it into a different hero. The other option would be a Cleric/Ranger multiclass who would fill the healer role throughout but also be a decent warrior (can dual wield as a bonus) and also later get druid spells. Functionally better but is going a little out of the Amazon character.

Next up are the lesser known members.

Green Lantern: I am going to go for an elven sorcerer. Essentially Hal Jordan is a man who gains powers through his lantern ring. He himself has no super abilities, and I see no other parallel other than a magic user of some sort producing the constructs he does and the flexibility a sorcerer provides fits in with the fact he can make anything he wants. This is pretty much straightforward and he'll be my main spell caster.

Flash: Another conundrum as there is no direct parallel in the D&D world. He could fit into either a rogue or mage category (the role play being that he has the extreme dexterity and speed of a rogue or that his powers are imbued by magic). I have considered the Blade bard kit, but a multiclass Mage/thief (fighter/mage/thief) is also interesting. With a lack of a ranged specialist that is where he would focus his weapon proficiencies with an option to backstab. I am also dabbling with the idea of a Shadowdancer (can stop time and move while everyone is in slow motion - sounds exactly like what Flash can do) to act as a thief before Batman kensai duals over and takes that role who then duals into a mage and acts as my second spell caster. The other option is a fast fisted monk, but I don't think he'll benefit the team in IWD. Still wondering what to do with him.

Final spot is between two:

Green Arrow: Elven archer, dexterity build, let the arrows rain. Standard issue archer build, nothing too exciting but I remember ranged specialists being powerful in IWD, and now this kit is available. Only reason I wouldn't is as I've mentioned it's been done and boring. Is a dedicated ranged specialist crucial in IWD.

Aquaman: Half-elven (Half-Atlantean/Human) Cleric/Ranger. The only reason I'm dithering over Green Arrow is the fact that having a sole healer in multi/dualclassed Wonder Woman is leaving my team a bit squishy, even more so if initially she is a Berzerker waiting to be dualled. For that reason if I do go with that option I can see Aquaman filling that cleric/ranger role with his nature-based powers.

Would be grateful to hear people's thoughts and advice. Thanks!

BelgarathMTHgreenbeans8Scottfree9000

Comments

  • Ancalagon44Ancalagon44 Member Posts: 252
    I would think the Green Lantern should be some kind of Fighter/Mage, reason being that he is a human that uses his Ring to augment his fighting abilities. So, creating a suit of armor out of nothing, hasting himself and then wading into combat sounds more like the Green Lantern than a sorcerer who bombards enemies from afar.

    Purely for avoiding too many dual classes in one party, I'd make Wonder Woman a multi class Fighter/Cleric or Fighter/Druid rather than a dual class.

    Either monk or shadowdancer would suit Flash quite well I think. Monk sounds a little bit closer since they get a bonus to movement speed and eventually are capable of many attacks per round, whereas the shadowdancer will never get that many attacks per round without a spell such as Improved Haste.

    If you're running out of ideas, you could also start to use villains in your party, such as Lex Luthor. Some versions of Lex Luthor are actually good, for instance. With his high intellect, he would be a logical choice for a mage. Possibly a Thief/Mage of some kind.

    Or the Joker - a chaotic evil Wild Mage?

    BelgarathMTHdr_mudsgreenbeans8
  • dr_mudsdr_muds Member Posts: 73
    Thanks, I'll take all that on board. Good points about Green Lantern the only problem is that I do need a single class mage and I am trying to stick to original Justice League members only. With any sort of translation we're not going to get the characters exactly how we want (e.g. Superman being human, wonder woman being able to use a lasso etc), and adaptations to make viable parties need to be made (e.g. the introduction of a healer). I might make a Suicide Squad build later with Joker as that wild mage idea does sound great (with Rick Flag as a Blackguard, Will Smith as a fallen Ranger/Archer, Harley Quinn as a Jester or Swashbuckler seem to be building themselves).

    My major issues lie with what to do with Wonder Woman and Flash, and the choice of another healer or an Archer in Green Arrow. I also read that there are no high level abilities in IWD - is this true? In which case my Batman Kensai/Thief is out too (no use any item). In which case I am thinking of putting Batman as my Monk (hand to hand fighter, dextrous, hides in shadows) and Flash being a ranged Fighter/Mage/Thief. That way I can still have my second healer as well in Aquaman.

    greenbeans8
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,835
    I do NOT see batman as a fighter/thief. I view him as a ranger (in this case, likely a stalker).

    I think Batman and Superman as a Ranger and Paladin, plays off the stylistic differences in their characters and their classes.

    dr_mudsgreenbeans8
  • dr_mudsdr_muds Member Posts: 73
    I was considering stalker too. Only problem is at the moment my team is horribly unbalanced. So far I have Superman as a paladin, batman as a luxury fighter with no thieving or magical skills to add to the party, Wonder Woman who is at least part healer (the more I think about it the more I think she's going to have to be a full time cleric which doesn't fit her character).

    Green Lantern has to be the full spellcaster.

    If Flash is another luxury fighter as a monk I have one space left who has to be thief and secondary Mage in one. I would have liked to have another tank (cyborg?). I just think that one of either Flash or Batman has to be at least part thief.

    greenbeans8
  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,100
    edited October 2015
    I see superman has a monk. Fights with his hands, no armor, is fast. Otherwise I'd say fighter/Mage. Stoneskin represents his toughness. Haste to show his speed. Tenders transformation. Plus he has laser vision and ice breath, which spells represent.

    And Wonder Woman? Sword and shield paladin.

    dr_muds
  • Ancalagon44Ancalagon44 Member Posts: 252
    Batman could be a dual class Fighter Thief because he uses tricks and traps to bring his foes down. He thinks ahead and doesn't just use brute force. He has a plan for every enemy type.

    That being said, a multi class Fighter Thief may be ideal because he improves as both fighter and thief throughout his career.

    Although Superman does fight with his hands and is fast, I'd still say Paladin is closest to his ideals.

    You could go with:
    Superman: Cavalier
    Batman: Elven Fighter/Thief
    Wonder Woman: Elven Fighter/Cleric
    Green Lantern: Fighter 7->Mage
    Flash: Sun Soul Monk
    Poison Ivy: True Neutral Druid

    Yes, you won't have a mage to begin with, but 7 levels will go quickly. Later in the game, you won't even notice. A Druid and a Fighter/Cleric should provide you with the magic you need for the first part of the game, and Batman will always have his thieving abilities.

    dr_mudsgreenbeans8
  • dr_mudsdr_muds Member Posts: 73
    edited October 2015
    I see what you say Grum, but I agree with Ancalagon in that there is no way that a D&D character is going to exactly mirror their comic counterpart, and that in this situation you have to imagine if these heroes existed in an alternate D&D universe how best to translate both their ideals and abilities. Out of all the Justice League, Superman would be a Paladin, the fearless chivalrous leader, over the monk (who is too fragile anyway if we want to roleplay the physical aspect), but I can see why so many people believe that he should be some other class. Your idea of Wonder Woman as a Paladin got me thinking though as you're right - she follows a god and has powers to that end, but she's definitely a full blooded warrior not a priest...

    Tbh if a celestial or half orc race could play Paladin in IWD EE that would be ideal to get his strength, constitution and durability up. While initially discounting it (as I thought it would be more like Batman) I like the idea of Flash as a monk, with the increased movement speed and multiple attacks per round providing a plausible and viable D&D explanation for Flash's skills in that universe (any reason why you make him a sun soul monk? doesn't seem to fit in with his powers).

    Here's my edited build so far:

    Superman: Lawful Good Half Orc Berserker (wait for the explanation...)
    Wonder Woman: Lawful Good Human Paladin Undead Hunter
    Batman: Chaotic Good Elven Fighter/Mage/Thief (Gonna raise a few eyebrows but explanation below)
    Green Lantern: Neutral Good Elven Sorcerer (Potentially Fighter dualled to Mage)
    Flash: Lawful Good Human Monk
    Aquaman: Half-Elven (Half Atlantean) Fighter/Druid (could try one of the full druid kits such as totemic druid to represent his ability to summon animals albeit not marine)

    Now the reasoning:

    Superman is NOT human, and his physical attributes should reflect that. Paladin restricts him to human, and his premier power other than flight is his supreme strength and durability, more so than any other hero on the planet. Half-orc race gives him the requisite bonuses to strength and constitution. Being part Orc hero predominantly human D&D world fighting evil also reflects his story of a Kryptonian hero living alone on Earth.

    Many are going to say he HAS to be a paladin, and I was of the same thought initially, but in the roleplay why can't non-human beings have knight-like qualities (Mazzy the halfling fighter in BG2 comes to mind). The Berserker kit? The idea came from this clip:



    The idea being that Superman could annihilate EVERYTHING if he wanted. Just like a Berserker he is in tune and control of his true power and can make a choice to unleash it (unlike a Barbarian who just goes apeshit, more like the Hulk). As a fighter and grand master this gives him the potential to rightfully be the biggest melee ass kicker.

    Wonder Woman, as explained is more of a paladin as she is a pure warrior imbued with divine powers. I have chosen Undead Hunter as to fits in with her comic battles against Hades and Ares who were gods of death and war and often controlled the undead, plus its an excuse to try out this kit for the first time.

    Batman: I'm going to get a lot of flak for this but Batman has three main strengths - his fighting skill, stealth AND his genius level intellect. OK I'm bummed I can't use Kensai/Thief because of no HLA's true, but gives me an opportunity to try my first triple class. F/M/T obviously ensures he has fighting skills (can mix it up in melee and ranged combat), thieving skills to reflect the fact that he can break and enter, hide in shadows and sneak up on enemies, and finally the mage aspect is the D&D explanation for his high IQ and scientist skills. Batman has so many gadgets which can't be explained by either fighter or thief - the D&D explanation for technology has to be magic. Plus it makes roleplay sense with Batman having an almost supernatural ability to intimidate and induce fear (Horror spell anyone?). Batman isn't a toe to toe fighter like Supes or Wonder Woman, his skills lie in being an allrounder.

    The other 3 explain themselves, although I may be light on priest spells, particularly if I keep Aquaman as a dual class.

  • dr_mudsdr_muds Member Posts: 73
    edited October 2015
    Have made some final deliberations and settled on this, as well as fleshing out some background plot:

    Superman: Human Paladin. as much as I want to make him a Half Orc for the strength and constitution in the end the Paladin suits him to a tee, more so than any other party member. Undead Hunter to blow through all the undead in IWD on higher difficulty modes. As a role play perspective UH is as noble and brave as any other paladin, and I am working on the premise that he is the last son of Krypton, a lost advanced civilisation in Faerun which was destroyed by a curse and overrun by undead. Seems like a legitimate conversion of the original Superman origin to D&D territory.

    Wonder Woman: Berserker dualled at either level 9 or 13 to cleric. I cannot reconcile her as a paladin - in the comics she has shown a ruthless side and is known to have snapped a villains neck to prevent him controlling Superman, to the shock of Superman and Batman who would never do such a thing. I thought of doing a Priest of Helm (True sight for the Lasso of truth and seeking sword for a holy weapon) dualled to fighter but realised that from a casting perspective as well as a hit point perspective it wouldn't make sense. Berserker fits her Amazon training perfectly, and even as a Cleric she will still be able to tank as well as use true seeking to represent her lasso of truth powers and summon holy weaponry. From a role play perspective I initially thought making her a magic user would not fit in, but in the new 52 range of comics she becomes a member of the Star Sapphires - a female equivalent of Green Lanterns with power rings based on love. Similar powers to GL, including protective forcefields, but can even raise someone from death - sound familiar to a D&D class? Plus she can still grand master, draw upon holy might (as she draws upon her powers as the daughter of Zeus in the comics) and kick ass. IMO perfect class for her.

    Batman: Chaotic Good Fighter/Mage/Thief as explained earlier. But you know what since we're in D&D territory lets make him a dark elf, just because we can. His parents were Drow nobles betrayed and forced to escape the Underdark with their wealth, however as a child he sees his parents assassinated before his eyes, leading him to become a vigilante on the surface fighting for good and searching for revenge. Find familiar and you'll have Robin or Nightwing, his dragon sidekick and companion!

    Aquaman: Half Elven (to represent him being half Atlantean) True Neutal (anti-hero like) Fighter/Druid. To avoid too many dual classes and to represent that he is a warrior king throughout am sticking with the multiclass, but the druid aspect from the start of the game reflects his affinity with animal life and nature, and will provide the healing while Wonder Woman hasn't dual classed. Then when she finally gets a high enough level that will compensate for the level slow down in the druid XP table. Plus as a half elf he can use the Aegis Shield with a scimitar, after initially using spears (to represent his trident).

    Flash: Lawful Good Human Monk. Fighter that can move faster naturally than any other but will be more fragile than my tanks. Reasons also detailed above. Toyed with Thief (shadow dancer) kits and mage dual/multiclasses, as well as Blade, but aside from haste and shadow step the other abilities won't fit in with his persona (he is not a thief nor a spell caster). Not choosing Sun Soul, as am trying that kit as Rasaad in BG2, and my role play that he is an Akadi monk (the goddess of movement, speed and air elemntals). Not only that an aspect of Akadi Teylas is the god of storms, so his powers will have been granted by a lightning bolt.

    Green Lantern: Neutral Good Kensai dualled to Mage at level 7. Ancalagons idea should be a fighter/mage dual is right, he utilises his power ring to supplement his fighting skill rather than staying afar and firing off his powers. Kensai will not only maximise his attack power and let him achieve some durability with fighter hit points (while Batman and Aquaman hold the fort with magic early on in the game) it makes roleplaying sense. Hal Jordan is an army fighter pilot before he discovers his ring (representing the dual class), and like a Kensai is taught to be one with their one true of weapon, it reflects the Green Lantern training of being one with their power ring. The plan is to put the proficiencies in long sword and dual wield so that when he regains his first class he can use the both the long sword and dagger that provide extra spells.

    Thanks for everyones help and input, and stoked about trying this team now! I've also made biographies detailing their background, which I've hinted at here. This post is already too long, but if anyone is interested sixth or so post down:

    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/683897#Comment_683897

    Post edited by dr_muds on
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,649
    It's probably too late to have input into this, but that Green Lantern power ring can do a lot more than people think, such as generating any form of radiation including kryptonite. It can likely also heal wounds if the user's will is strong enough, and it can generate force shields to protect others as well as the ring-wielder.

    I think Green Lantern translates well as a cleric. The Oa are sort of like his sponsoring gods. His mace, shield, and armor could all be constructs. His protective spells and even his healing spells can be generated by the ring. His turn undead can be a discharge of green energy from the ring that repels undead. And it frees Wonder Woman up to be a paladin or other warrior type.

    I don't see Green Lantern as a sorcerer or mage at all. Green Lanterns are more like the Jedi Knights of the DC universe. They are warriors and enforcers. If you just have to have arcane magic from the ring, like fireballs, the ring can duplicate that, but maybe cleric-mage would be a good choice. The lanterns don't use energy discharges to fight very often, though, and the times they do could be seen as using ranged weaponry. They are much more likely to use constructs and enter into melee. And they are trained as melee warriors.

    One DC character that seems like an arcane magic user to me is Dr. Fate, but I guess he's not really regular Justice League. The Martian would be a good choice for an arcane user, especially using charm spells, and alteration spells.

    dr_mudsmarcellus
  • dr_mudsdr_muds Member Posts: 73
    edited October 2015
    HI Belgarath, I haven't actually started the game yet as am tweaking final builds and biographies as well as finishing another game, so its not too late at all and I welcome any input. i'm also enjoying the discussion and debate produced by it.

    I understand what you're saying, however I don't see the Hal Jordan character playing the cleric role. The powers may fit but I simply can't see him worshipping the guardians as deities nor see the ring as a manifestation of holy power. I really like the Jedi analogy, but in my mind jedis don't wear full metal plate and swing a flail. I can definitely see his ring being arcane based in power (the original golden age Green Lantern IS actually magic based) and a cleric can't produce arrows and skull traps which would be my kind of Green Lantern, not to mention the Stoneskin ability which can explain the impenetrable force field. A cleric/mage is a build I've never liked to be honest, too weak and frail. Also it would unbalance the team, as I do need a dedicated wizard.

    I definitely agree that the Lanterns are trained as melee warriors with the constructs supporting that. Which is why I really liked Ancalagon's idea of a Fighter/Mage and chose a Kensai/mage dual build for the reasons detailed in my post above yours. It fits in with the original premise of a soldier/warrior (fighter jet pilot) being given new magical powers, as well as the jedi-like persona. In addition, in Forgotten Realms history there are actually undead beings similar to the Black Lanterns created by the lesser magical deity Azuth which could fly and had telekinesis - sound familiar? What if another magical deity or another chapter serving Mystra had a more law enforcement based group of such beings? That's the basis of my backstory for Hal Jordan in the IWD continuity if you read my brief biography in the link I provided.

    For roleplaying as well as gameplay reasons I don't want to free Wonder Woman up to be a pure class fighter as I think the Berzerker/Cleric dual character not only fits in with her deity based background but also makes her a much more powerful character, as well as providing an explanation for her super strength and Lasso of truth abilities (true seeing). I haven't discounted your idea of a power ring providing healing powers however, as my reasoning for her receiving her cleric powers aren't just the fact her powers are given by the Gods, but also because in the new 52 continuity she becomes a Star Sapphire, the female equivalent of a Green Lantern. Now their power is based on love, and they are known to have been able to revive people from the dead using such power, which to be seems more like a cleric, on top of the fact that we know Wonder Woman's powers are divine in nature

    Martian Manhunter is a good shout and I did consider him. However he comes with the issues associated with Superman in that he has virtually omipotent powers (super strength, phasing, alteration, flight, invulnerability) and how does that translate into a D&D character. At least with Superman his ideals can be translated into a paladin persona, but its difficult with the Martian. He'd have to be a Half-Orc Fighter/Mage (well a fighter/mage/druid with powers to grow and shrink) to cover both his looks, attributes and powers but its not possible.

    Also if I added him, who would I take out? Flash as my luxury fighter and Aquaman come to mind, but for me Flash is integral to a Justice League build, and Aquaman is going to be my interesting half-elf/atlantean druid type who can wield the Aegis shield. I've already made some interesting back stories for them, and personally find them to be more interesting characters anyway. It's one of the reasons why I've left out Green Arrow, who was originally going to me my indispensable Archer, but I just couldn't leave any of the big 6 out (plus I'd already done the Elven Archer to death in Legolas and Hawkeye with my Lord of the Rings and Marvel Avengers teams, respectively).

    Post edited by dr_muds on
    BelgarathMTH
  • dr_mudsdr_muds Member Posts: 73
    Just as an interesting side point, I came across this link in which someone's created figures depicting justice league members as D&D characters:

    http://sillof.com/dungeon-league

    Looks like Superman, Batman and Flash are nailed down as a Paladin, Thief/Rogue and Monk respectively and as expected in my opinion, although I had initially put down Flash as a Shadowdancer or thief/mage combo.

    Interestingly Green Lantern is a wizard in this interpretation and Wonder Woman a barbarian, which I guess is similar to the Amazon Berserker I would envisage albeit without the introduction of deity based powers.

    BelgarathMTH
  • dr_mudsdr_muds Member Posts: 73
    edited November 2015

    Or the Joker - a chaotic evil Wild Mage?

    Ancalagon's comment got me thinking. While I have refused to put villains into my Justice League, there are some awesome super villains and arch nemeses out there, so what if the constituents of my "Dungeon League" team had an opposing team of D&D versions of their archenemies?

    Lex Luthor: Neutral Evil Human Bounty Hunter Dual Classed to Mage. Superman's archnemesis. This build may initially raise a few eyebrows, but firstly he has to end up being a wizard. He's Earth's supreme genius and he often utilises his intelligence to outwit heroes and villains alike, as well as using his inventions and technology to further his wealth and help him in battle (like his battle suit). He's not a fighter at all per se despite that - I would say it is more akin to a Tenser's Transformation with buffs. However, he didn't just get his wealth through hard work and graft and was born into poverty and slums in his original origin, making his way up by stealing and scheming. He never faces Superman eye-to-eye, it usually involves a trap (and Kryptonite) and weakening his enemy before he wades in with technology or gets others to clean up his dirty work. For that reason the snare setting ability of the BH suits him down to a tee. His original history even involves him gaining his wealth by cutting the brakes to his parents car, cashing in on an insurance plan when the trap he set kills them. In the D&D explanation for his wealth can be cashing in on bounties using his guile, or even as a pirate before he creates his empire.

    Ares: Neutral Evil Human Blackguard. Wonder Woman's counterpart. The evil deity inspired powers of the Anti-paladin kit suit the God of War turned God of Death well. Pretty straightforward and the main tank for the team. His story will be to thwart Wonder Woman's attempts to prevent the conflict and misery which he thrives upon as the Avatar of God of War on Earth, and sworn enemy of the Amazons.

    Joker: Chaotic Evil Half-Elf Jester (Bard Kit). Batman's enduring psychopathic homicidal enemy. It's difficult to give Joker justice as a D&D character as some of his acts of chaos and mayhem just can't be adequately translated. I toyed with Ancalagon's suggestion of a Wild Mage but there's more to Joker than just that, plus I think the chaotic nature of wild magic is just that, and not a reflection of it's wielders mental state. I remember when I first read the Jester kits description when BG2 was released immediately having an image of the Joker in my mind, cavorting madly around enemies yet still deadly. As a Jester, Joker can still cast a decent level of mage spells to represent his acid flower (Melf's acid arrow) and fear toxins. However it must be noted that Joker is a jack of all trades himself, and has been able to hold his own with Batman in combat (even defeating him in swordplay in his first appearance), can use a variety of weapons and is of course a thief (pick pocket). On top, the Jester's ability to cause chaos and confusion amongst his enemies with his specific kit bardsong is a great D&D representation of him releasing his Joker toxins turning both enemies and innocent bystanders insane. A perfect class choice in my opinion, down to the name.

    (Harley Quinn: Joker's trickster Quasit follower, just as Batman has Robin, his faerie dragon sidekick through casting Find Familiar)

    Reverse Flash (Professor Zoom): Lawful Evil Dark Moon Monk. Pretty straightforward to come up with this as Zoom is just like the Flash power wise, just evil, and there just so happens to be an evil monk kit which give him skills which fit in with his many abilities (Blindness, Blur, Vampire Touch). Similar to the DC comic interpretation, Zoom's powers and villainy are a result of fan worship of the original Flash (who in the future is recognised as a hero of legendary proportions) gone wrong, with a young Zoom based in the future invoking the evil powers of Shar through worship, sending him back in time to the original Flash and Icewind Dale timeline, and giving him the speed powers he craves but also insanity and a hatred of the Flash.

    Ocean Master: Neutral Evil Priest of Talos. Considered Black Manta as Aquaman's D&D counterpart, but it would have been too difficult to translate his eye beam powers and other quirks into a specific class/multiclass combo. Plus the villainous team is lacking a healer, and Ocean Master provides a great opportunity to utilise one of the new priest kits. Aquaman's full human half-brother through his father, OM watches with envy in the shadow of his brother who develops Atlantean powers based on his druidic elven heritage, rising to the position of crown prince of Atlantis. Believing that power to be rightly his, Ocean Master occupies himself with worship of the evil god of storms, who grants him power over the skies. This kit seems to have been made for the Forgotten Realms version of Ocean Master, and translates well with his mainstream powers of storm, lightning and magic manipulation through technology (including his trident) and dealings with the demon Neron.

    Sinestro: Lawful Evil Elven (Korugarian) Fighter/Mage. Green Lanterns mentor turned nemesis, Sinestro uses the powers granted to him by Mystra to inspire fear, and is therefore banished from her Lantern corp. While Green Lantern is a Fighter dualled to Mage, Sinestro is not human (even in the DC continuity he looks like a scarlet/magenta elf) so defaults to a multiclass (unless anyone can think of any good dual class builds for him?). Interestingly, this means Sinestro has greater magical powers than my GL build early in his career, reflecting his status as his mentor, which GL overcomes to become more powerful than Sinestro as he masters his powers through willpower. Horror and Fear spells are essential for Sinestro.

    What do people think? Any other ideas for for a DC super villain team given the Iceland Dale/black pit D&D treatment?

    Post edited by dr_muds on
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,835
    Constantine as an illusionist/thief if you're looking for more arcane magic

  • greenbeans8greenbeans8 Member Posts: 19
    Superman is not a paladin. He is lawful to neutral good sorceror/fighter and here is why, a paladin takes off his cloak before her armour. Still you can make superman anything you'd like! If it is you remember sorcerors can be nice of they have no sword especially! A bit like a gallant knight. Put it this way, a charismatic good sorceror or sorceress is not always aware of how beautiful they may be inside and out. Beauty is within the eye of the beholder, but true beauty comes fro within. So be polite and learn to mean it!

  • greenbeans8greenbeans8 Member Posts: 19
    edited November 2015
    Wonder woman is like a rangeress druidess! Because she knows what men.. and women want! And she fights for what is right when she speaks. She is more Chaotic Neutralish... to chaotic good.

  • greenbeans8greenbeans8 Member Posts: 19
    edited November 2015
    Batman would be the unheard of lawful chaotic. He may be neutral good or lawful evil and that is a decent balance, though his wisdom does not compare with Wonder Woman's, he may be as charismatic as superman and more dexterous to boot. Batman is a bit of a paladin wizard. Or... a blackguard mage. ;) happy video gaming!

  • greenbeans8greenbeans8 Member Posts: 19
    edited November 2015
    Flash is a wise thief druid, a charismatic thief sorceror, or a dexterous ranger monk

  • greenbeans8greenbeans8 Member Posts: 19
    Green lantern is a druid fighter.

  • greenbeans8greenbeans8 Member Posts: 19
    Aquaman would go well as a cleric ranger or a druid mage. Well made characters you have there! By day they go to school or work... and by night... they are parents or a parental guardian! Simply true.

  • dr_mudsdr_muds Member Posts: 73
    Interesting... but many of those combinations aren't possible!

    After having a little run through with my team and doing a bit of research, I've decided that I want a vanilla Bard in my team, due to the amazing benefits their songs give.

    Tricky to figure out who I'll make a Bard as no Justice League Member sings as their superpower! But I have decided to make Flash a bard, with the reasoning being many of his powers are similar to the Wally West incarnation of the Flash. This is going to raise some eyebrows, but on thinking many of the bard's powers do fit. Obviously, as a bard he'll be able to haste himself or wear the boots of speed to give him Flash like speed. The Wally West Flash is known to have mastered the Speed Force and has some powers even Barry Allen can do, many of which can be reconciled with bardsong and other bard bonuses, namely:

    1. Lending and taking speed (hasting team members and slowing enemies using spells, or Siren's yearning song)
    2. Altering the vibrations of vocal cords (and therefore linking his powers to bardsongs)
    3. Speed read at incredible rates and supercharged brain activity (therefore making him a great source of lore and being able to identify items quicker). Also explains intelligence and ability to use magic
    4. Vibrating at speeds invisible to naked eye (Invisibility spell)
    5. Some immunity to telepathy (Song of Kaudies)
    6. Creating vortices with hands and arms (projectile missile spells)
    7. Regenerative healing factor and ability to heal others (buffing ability of various songs, and in particular War Chant of the Sith, which regenerates health!).
    8. Speed and sleight of hand invisible to naked eye, and ability to disarm others/take from them without their knowing (Pick Pocket Ability)

    With that in mind, it's quite feasible that a Bard can be the AD&D equivalent of the Flash in IWDEE, and the story can be that he is in search of his uncle and mentor (the original Flash Barry Allen) who was also a bard, and they have a connection to the Speed Force through their voices (hence the powers through bardsong). Wally's personality also does fit that of a bards.

    I would still want a vanilla Monk, and as a secondary spell caster is now covered by the bard, I would turn Batman into a martial arts expert (as I had previously considered as a role for him) and drop the Fighter/Mage/Thief.

    Meanwhile I would convert Green Lantern from Kensai/Mage to Swashbuckler/Mage to compensate for loss of thief skills. Again this might seem strange, but this is a combination I have wanted to try and this would be an ideal situation for it. Hal Jordan in the comic canon is a cocky, reckless air force pilot, and this would fit a Swashbuckler persona (except in the IWD canon he could be a sea adventurer/military sailor as their equivalent). Also in focussing thieving skills in find traps and open locks, these could be explained by the Lanterns ability to construct a key to open locks or disarm traps. He would still be adept at melee (including specialisation and dual wielding) and get all the bonuses a swashbuckler gets. I am also considering making him an evil alignment (although he won't play an evil alignment in the game) so that I can unlock evil plot lines and quest experience, and this can relate to Hal Jordan's descent into madness and turning into the evil Parallax when his home city is destroyed. An added bonus - I can try out an evil mage familiar!

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