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Superhero/Mainstream Team Builds for Black Pits/IWD

Have played black pits a second time with a Marvel Avengers based team build, and it was a load of fun:

Captain America: Lawful Good Human Cavalier with proficiencies in flail/morning star, axe (to compensate for lack of missile weapons plus good cheap axe+2) and sword and shield style. Thought of other kits, Cavalier seemed to fit the role-play a lot better. maxed all important stats and charisma obviously 18

Hulk: Chaotic Good Half Orc Barbarian with proficiencies in Two handed sword, two handed style and later quarterstaff for slashing/piercing resistant enemies. Was real fun building and playing with this one as it pretty much fit Hulk to a tee. Strength and constitution 19 was a must

Thor: Neutral Good Half Orc Fighter/Cleric with proficiencies in warhammer and mace. Had to think hard about this one, but I needed a healer and holy powers and weaponry fit in well with the Thor persona. Half orc chosen due to lack of a better option and his strength and durability had to be on par with Hulk.

Hawkeye: Neutral Good Elven Archer. Max dexterity, full proficiencies in longbow, and one in long sword for melee and sling for those pesky clay golems (blunt damage only). Pretty standard archer build and was the easiest one to make.

Black Widow: Neutral Good Elven Assassin. Max dexterity focussed on range but used to backstab later in the game. Poison ability was great in black pits. Another one which was fairly easy to deliberate upon and make.

Iron Man: Chaotic Good Human Dragon's Disciple. Had the most fun making this one. Obviously there's no equivalent for a genius in a mechanised suit in D&D but I decided a wizard would best imitate Tony Stark's genius intellect and projectile and armour based powers. On top I feel the dragon's disciple adds a bit of durability with extra hit points in the black pits compared to other kits, as well as being able to pick and choose whichever spells I want to use in a battle. No need to waste money learning scrolls either.

Have also had fun with a Lord of the Rings based team, with a Cavalier (Aragorn - yes I know he's a ranger but I thought a knight type character fit his persona better and I already had Legolas as a ranger), Dwarven Defender (Gimli) as tanks, Legolas as an elven archer, Gandalf as a Dragon's Disciple (yes I'm a fan of DD in black pits), Arwen a Druid Avenger as my healer and back up attack spell caster, and finally Frodo as a Halfling Shadowdancer (get it??).

Any thoughts or any other mainstream superhero/movie/book/comics based teams anyone else has made?



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  • dr_mudsdr_muds Member Posts: 73
    edited October 2015
    subtle is your mod for the EE. I weren't aware there were any? the golems sound awesome, reminiscent of all the iron man robots in Iron Man 2!

  • GoodSteveGoodSteve Member Posts: 607
    I once went through the Black Pits with a Forgotten Realms team that featured many of my favorite characters from my favorite FR author. So, presenting my Songs and Swords team:

    Arilyn Moonblade - Female Neutral Good Half-Elf Fighter. I had her focus on Longswords and Single Weapon style, since she is renown for using her trademark Moonblade, a longsword, in a "two-handed grip" and that was the closest approximation allowed within the BG rules. I've used her before in the main BG campaign as a Fighter/Thief, which is more thematically appropriate but it really doesn't do her any good in TBP.

    Danilo Thann - Male Chaotic Good Human Bard. Danilo is my favorite FR character. While his stats have him as a wizard/aristocrat/spellslinger, an impossible combination for BG, I find that Bard suits him pretty well. It allows him some use in lighter blades (I used short swords to replicate his typical rapier) and still wield some arcane might. Also, his spellslinger prestige class is focused around manipulating magic through song and he has a special knack for it.

    Elaith Craulnober - Male Neutral Evil Elf Fighter/Mage. Making The Serpent was pretty straight forwards, Fighter/Mage fits him perfectly since... well, he is a Fighter/Mage. I had him using daggers as thrown weapons as well as a longsword with single weapon style since it fits him thematically. I use his arcane powers mostly to buff him as he wades into melee.

    Bronwyn Carradoon - Female Neutral Good Human Swashbuckler. The proprietor of the Curious Past, and a famed treasure seeker, Bronwyn works as a Swashbuckler. Wielding a a Longsword in one hand a Dagger in the other she makes use of the Swashbucklers two-weapon fighting abilities. Also, as the only rogue class in the group I gound myself pumping up her detect traps/detect illusion as those are the more useful rogue abilities in TBP.

    Dag Zoreth - Male Chaotic Evil Human Cleric. Brandon Caradoon, or Dag Zoreth as he eventually became known as, is the long lost brother of Bronwyn and a powerful cleric of Cyric. While he wouldn't really get along too well with the rest of our party, being trapped in a gladiatorial pit with everyone's life on the line can force some strange alliances. Solely a supporting character Dag focuses on buffing the group while debuffing the enemies. He's also ready with a healing spell if the need ever arises.

    Khelben "Blackstaff" Arunsun - Male Lawful Neutral Human Mage. The powerful Lord Mage of Waterdeep and high ranking member of the Harpers rounds out the group. An immensely powerful wizard, Khelben should be able to give Baeloth a run for his money. Though perhaps he's decided not to show off too badly and let the rest of his time have a spot in the limelight as well. Khelben "Blackstaff" Arunsun has proficiency in quarterstaffs, who knew?

  • PK2748PK2748 Member Posts: 381
    Thor as a half Orc? Meh. Hulk should be rocking dual morning stars I think. Smash not cut

  • dr_mudsdr_muds Member Posts: 73
    edited October 2015
    Fair point, hadn't thought about that, but I based it on his planet hulk character which had barbarian armour and a huge sword when he became king. That said he did have a mace/morning star weapon in the gladiator pits.

    In any case its done and this team seriously demolished the first black pits.

    Am making a Justice league build for Iceland Dale (equally applicable to Black Pits I guess albeit at lower levels minus dual classes) with some interesting discussions. Post is available through this link:

    Deeper discussion regarding it is above but the team itself is:

    Superman: Lawful Good Human Paladin (Undead Hunter for IWD). Have considered Half Orc Berserker for racial strength and con bonuses but Supes has to be a paladin. Story is the last son of Krypton, citadel of an advanced mysterious race of humans in Faerun who were wiped out by undead, summoned by an ancient curse. Now walks Faerun alone as the last of his kind, fighting for justice and helping those in need with the powers granted to him in a blessing created by his father as he was transported out as his home was overrun.

    Wonder Woman: Neutral Good Human Berserker dualled at level 9 or 13 to Cleric. Amazon Berserker warrior of the female led land of Themyscira who, unknown to her initially, is the daughter of Lord Ao (instead of Zeus). Hearing stories of Faerun and the land of man, she is chosen as her race's representative to the mainland, where she finds a new strange world in need of a hero. Cleric powers explained by her links with the Gods and the fact that in the comics she becomes a Star Sapphire with a similar power ring to Green Lantern. True Seeing as a priest spell is the D&D explanation for her Lasso of Truth.

    Batman: Chaotic Good (Dark) Elven Fighter/Mage/Thief. Hailing from a noble, wealthy drow Underdark family, his parents, unnaturally born with good in their hearts, were betrayed and fled to the surface and settled in the poverty-stricken town of Gotham, spreading their wealth and goodwill. His parents assassinated in front of him, potentially instructed by their pursuers, he renounces his dark heritage's evil ways and with his resources instead trains himself in martial arts, subterfuge, stealth and magic to fight evil and strike fear into the hearts of those who would follow it. Will he get his revenge?

    Flash: Lawful Good Human Monk of Akadi (therefore kitless as not roleplaying any of the kit monks). Struck by magical lightning created by Teylas, god of storms, and an aspect of Akadi, goddess of speed, movement and air elementals. Surviving this miracle, Flash gains faith and inspiration to utilise his new found powers of speed and quick thought for the betterment of humankind.

    Aquaman: True Neutral (reflecting his anti-hero status) Half-Elf (Half-Atlantean) Fighter/Druid. Son of a Human Explorer and the only princess daughter of a marine dwelling druidic elven race. Aquaman fights to protect his adopted race from the growing threat of his father's race's world, whilst also combatting the prejudices of those who would seek to overthrow him because of his half-human nature, as well as his own inner demons and preconceptions of surface dwellers. A fearsome warrior who wields the power of his mother's race by controlling and receiving the aid of nature. Can utilise spears (tridents), staffs and later scimitars together with the Aegis Shield, best shield in the game only usable by elves and half-elves.

    Green Lantern: Neutral Good Human Kensai dualled to Mage at level 7. Hal Jordan, growing up in the magical land of Thay, read stories with wonder and envy of the Favored, revived guards of the lesser deity of magic Azuth, each of whom possessed uncanny abilities such as telekinesis and flight. Banished from his role as a martial guard of Thay after defending a slave from the wrath of a Red Wizard, he adopts green attire. Casting away any association with the colour of his previous masters he seeks to become the light for those who are oppressed. Unbeknown to him, Mystra, goddess of magic, watching this realises that Faerun may have found a new guardian of good magic, and sends one of her own last Favored, Abin Sur to seek out this reluctant hero.

    Post edited by dr_muds on
  • dr_mudsdr_muds Member Posts: 73
    edited November 2015
    Was thinking of an Avengers villain team to complement my Marvel Avengers team.

    Please note that i haven't included major Avengers villains like Thanos, Kang and Annihilus, these supreme beings would be more like boss villains who the Avengers would have to team up against on their own. If they were part of an opposing party the Avengers would get annihilated. Essentially the party has been chosen so that each member can fight toe to toe with their respective archnemesis respectively, as well as give balance to the party.

    Please also note that in the original team Barbarian Hulk has been tweaked to have morning stars as well, and I have changed Iron Man from a Dragon's Disciple to Conjurer (to reflect his ability to create objects to and weapons to assist him), as his dragon abilities fit the mandarin more and he is power will be based on his intelligence and learning rather than a sorcerer.

    Anyway here goes:

    Red Skull: Neutral Evil Human Blackguard. Complements Captain America's Cavalier as his polar opposite, as for a while Skull also had peak super soldier abilities. In addition poison weapon ability represent his poison gas cigarette ability.

    Red Hulk Thunderbolt Ross: Chaotic Neutral Half-Orc Berserker. Similar to Hulk Build, except being a fighter kit implies he has more tactical nous and weapon skill than raw Barbarian Brute. I considered Abomination and the Leader as Hulk's counterpart, but thought the Leader wouldn't translate well into a team already stocked with magic (only real way to translate super-intelligence) and General Ross turned Red Hulk was Hulk's long term nemesis and had more history than Abom.

    Loki: Neutral Evil Half-Elf Cleric/Mage. The ultimate spell caster and illusionist. Had to be Thor's counterpart. Potentially could also be Fighter/C/M to reflect Asgardian fighting training although I think that dilutes his spell casting.

    Taskmaster: Chaotic Neutral Elf Swashbuckler. Hawkeye's "skill" counterpart. Going to get a lot of flack for this one as one would assume he would be a fighter but technically a true Taskmaster would be a Kensai with max proficiencies in everything and thieving skills. In the end I envisage the term Swashbuckler fits TM nicely, he's a fighting rogue and on top provides the criminal thieving skills for the party. Elven race to give him superhuman dexterity

    Madame Hydra/Viper: Neutral Evil Human Monk (Dark Moon Monk?). I've gone a bit left field with this one. It's tricky to find arch enemies for Black Widow just like Hawkeye as they both have mainly fought in teams rather than having solo superhero careers, but she has faced off with Madame Hydra. I could have quite easily gone with Assassin, but I think that would have been boring making her and BW like for like. However which class has poison immunity and immense martial arts expertise like she does? On top she can still chuck venom tipped darts and use thief weapons. Add in a dark moon kit abilities to represent her illusionary and teleportation technology, you can even interpret frozen fists as poison damage.

    Mandarin: Lawful Evil Human Dragon's Disciple. I made an error in making Iron Man a DD, the sorcerous abilities are more suited to his arch nemesis. On top Mandarin was taught about magic and technology from a dragon-like alien - that just screams dragon's disciple!

    Would be interested if people agree or if they can think of better classes for the above, or indeed alernate enemies to fill this anti-Avengers team.

    Post edited by dr_muds on
  • PK2748PK2748 Member Posts: 381
    Loki should go Gnome and really be an illusionist/cleric and get that 19 int to boot!

  • dr_mudsdr_muds Member Posts: 73
    Great idea, The only thing is not sure I could role-play Loki as a short bearded garden gnome... the 19 intelligence and illusionist specialism definitely make sense though.

    Was just thinking that Taskmaster could quite easily be dual-classed to fighter in BG1 black pits too once his thieving levels are sufficient, or if using the team in Icewind Dale. In BG2 black pits, as he is a master of weaponry and is exceptional in any weapon he chooses, a Kensai/Thief may suit him to allow him to get some great hit point levels. Plus with HLA's in play can eventually use any item and demolish any enemy in his wake, giving the Taskmaster true justice. Wouldn't be so hot in BG1 and IWD where the HLA's aren't present however making him a walking target with no armour...

  • dr_mudsdr_muds Member Posts: 73
    Have an interesting idea for Black Pits 2 or Icewind Dale on the super villain theme: Suicide Squad!

    Bear in mind that certain lead characters in the upcoming movie aren't actually in the team (e.g. Joker, Killer Croc, Katana).

    Rick Flag: Lawful Neutral Human Berserker with a reasonably late dual to Thief. Loyal Patriotic Soldier with a hint of mental instability (hence the Berserker kit). Chosen to lead the suicide squad on undercover stealth based missions hence the career change to Thief. Skilled in stealth, surveillance and demolitions (hide in shadows, move silently and set traps) and will be able to access Use any Item in BG2 hinting at his adaptability to situations and tactical and strategist mind. Also considered Blackguard (doesn't really fit the unholy knight persona) and a Stalker kit also suited him but would leave this team seriously lacking in tanking ability. Great backstab option as well.

    Deadshot: Chaotic Neutral Human Assassin with dual class to Fighter. Get at least 9 levels of thief to get the 4x backstab and 3rd poison ability. Once dual classed focus on ranged weapons and make him ranged specialist with the option of backstab and ability to poison arrows/bolts. Could be an awesome ranged attacker. If only there was an evil ranger equivalent! Rick Flag can take over thieving duties during the dual class.

    Captain Boomerang: Neutral Evil Elven Fighter/Mage. The focus here will be on returning/throwing weapons. Therefore axes and daggers a priority, can use darts too, with the mage abilities used to complement the throwing abilites (to represent his acid/razor/energy boomerangs). To make this build useful 19 dexterity a must. However can be utilised to melee if necessary.

    Harley Quinn: Chaotic Neutral Half-Elf Jester. Similar to Joker in my anti-justice League team mentioned in the Icewind Dale forum, Harley Quinn can happily play the Jester kit. Proficient in most weapons, tricks up her sleeve and pickpocket to boot. Can equally take part in ranged combat or mix it up as support melee. However a Blade kit might be more suited if you want to do more of the latter, however it almost seems the Jester is an appropriate choice based on the name. If I had Joker in this Suicide Squad team I would probably have made him a melee fighter/mage,

    Diablo: Lawful Good Human Sun Soul Monk. Yes the alignment doesn't fit exactly but Diablo isn't really evil, and is a reluctant Suicide Squad member. The sun soul monk kit is on point with it's pyrokinetic special abilities otherwise.

    Enchantress: Chaotic Neutral Elf Cleric/Mage. Has to be the main magic user. Could easily be a sorceress or wild mage kit, but the character is known to be able to heal and otherwise the team would be missing a healer, hence the multiclass.

    Other members to mention. Although not in the movie, Bane has been a Suicide Squad member and could make an excellent Half-Orc Berserker or Barbarian if you feel the team is lacking in strength/tanking up front. Similarly, the team is missing some healing power, and if you can't do with a multiclass healer, how about adding Amanda Waller as a "support role" cleric kit, helping the team as they go along. You could then keep enchantress as a multiclass spell caster or make her a full blown sorceress or wild mage.

  • brunardobrunardo Member Posts: 517
    Awesome thread, thought about avengers playthrough for IWD and has similar ideas except Stark would be fighter/mage (has to have an iron suit) and would take out hulk and put scarlet witch (sorceress).

    Was thinking of a IWDEE playthrough with x-men though in near or distant future.

    Storm - Human Sorceress (can only use weather/elemental spells ice/lightning spells, wind/moisture based attacks etc) and would be leader

    Wolverine - Half orc berserker, duel wield L. swords (claws lol) and got to find him healing ring/plate to make it right.

    Psylocke - Dark Moon Monk, no real telepathy but can supplement with items to make up (gauntlets with mental immunity etc) and blur use is like confusing enemy mind along with resistances to mind altering.

    Gambit - Human Thief with Bo that would dual class to mage and uses and "explosive" or energy based missles (magic missle, skull trap, fireball, kinetic spear, etc)

    Nightcrawler - Half "Elf" ( with blue skin/drow) Blade duel wielding shortsword, scimitar, long swords. and all mage spells would be teleport related except for invisibility....can also do F/M but like bards.

    This last one been struggling with but need a healer of some sort...

    Cable - Human Fighter dual class early to Cleric. His telepathy/telekinesis would be most divine spells that could include healing (TK on cuts/bruises) and any hold/mind spells obviously including buffing spells as would be his TP on the party (and on the enemy mind) so think I can roleplay that one. give him maces/warhammer...too bad no gun except maybe a crossbow when he's a fighter or can use EE keeper

    ANy ideas :smile:

  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,136
    dr_muds said:

    Hawkeye: Neutral Good Elven Archer. Max dexterity, full proficiencies in longbow, and one in long sword for melee and sling for those pesky clay golems (blunt damage only). Pretty standard archer build and was the easiest one to make.

    Slings bullets do missile damage.

  • dr_mudsdr_muds Member Posts: 73
    edited November 2015
    joluv said:

    dr_muds said:

    Hawkeye: Neutral Good Elven Archer. Max dexterity, full proficiencies in longbow, and one in long sword for melee and sling for those pesky clay golems (blunt damage only). Pretty standard archer build and was the easiest one to make.

    Slings bullets do missile damage.
    Agreed, and found out the hard way! Luckily had enough backup blunt users and he could focus on other enemies.

    @brunardo glad you like the thread! To complement the Justice League team, I made a team of their respective arch nemeses... link for the post within my IWD Justice league team is below:

    Loving the X-men team, and agree with most of it. My ideas:

    Wolverine is a must and I would keep him as a Berzerker. Considered Barbarian (a decent alternative) but he has actually got years of military training and would have way more skill. Definitely dual wield and I would master as many bladed weapons as possible (Barbarian would allow him to specialise in more bladed weapons). Remember also that wolverine isn't just a one trick pony and can use guns (crossbows) and throwing weapons too. I would also make Wolverine leader as he took on the role after Professor X was blown to bits by Phoenix Cyclops who then went all evil anti-hero.

    I would also argue why not make Wolverine a dwarf? His diminutive stature is constantly noted in the comics and you're not planning to dual class. Also the constitution increase is in keeping with his durability and if you're doing a BG run, a manual of constitution would lead to him having natural healing. And if you choose barbarian you get extra HP and damage resistances in keeping with the Healing Factor.

    By making Storm a pure sorceress I think you're underestimating her other skills. I initially had her down as a sorceress like you and agreed with you completely. You could still in fact use her like that but I think your team is lacking a melee core. For that reason I would say make her a Fighter/Mage. Storm is an amazing hand to hand fighter (and has had further training with her hubby Black Panther), defeating plenty of enemies stronger than her, and even when depowered defeated Cyclops for leadership of X-men when he went a bit off kilter with the whole Jean Grey/Phoenix business. Heck you could even add Thief to the multi class as she grew up as one and still retains the skills. A melee thief to mage dual class would also be in keeping with her career progression, and a good alternative if you don't have space for a Gambit/Nightcrawler thief character anymore. Besides I've saved the pure sorceress role for another famous X-man later...

    I think if you're going for an X-men team you have to go for as many of the original or core long term members as possible. While Angel and Iceman would be difficult to translate in a BG/IWD team, why not go for Beast? Cable is a bit of a push as both a cleric and core X-men member - he's always been a renegade or X-Force associate rather than X-men.

    Beast on the other hand - Druid Shapeshifter Kit. The kit's made for him and not only can you shift into a werewolf to represent his appearance, but you also have your healer. The healing and spellcasting skills can be explained by his role as a genius inventor and team doctor. Also his True Neutral alignment is very apt - Age of Apocalypse, House of M and X-Men of the future have shown how Beast isn't necessarily good, with a different environment he can become villainous. The AoA Beast experimented on humans in Apocalypse's labs, showing as long as he's pursuing science.

    While Cyclops is considered a villain/anti-hero these days following the events of Avengers vs Xmen and branched off to make a new school with Magneto and co, I still count him as a core X-man. The original and probably best X-man, the movies make him out to be a bit of a p*ssy but he can hold his own against Wolverine and is a martial arts expert. On top the past Cyclops has been brought into the future so he can still be Good. Hence, I'll make him a Sun Soul Monk, so he can blast out fire similar to his optic blasts, and can dish out damage hand to hand. I don't see Psylocke as a core X-man, but if you fancy playing it's a good build. Other way of thinking of Cyclops - make him into an Archer. Ranged ability with fire/explosive arrows could explain his optic blasts, and give your team a ranged specialist.

    If you're going to have Gambit in the team and no other thief, I would actually make him a Blade bard kit, and do what you want with weaponry. That way he still has the fighting skill, and won't be weakened by dual classing to mage (which really isn't him) and can still use explosive spells. Nightcrawler should be your thief really - either a Swashbuckler maxed out in hide in shadows or why not Shadowdancer? he really doesn't have access to spells but the SD abilities are pretty similar. Also when use any ability comes along if you try BG2 then he can still use scrolls to teleport.

    Finally Jean Grey/Phoenix - Dragon's Disciple Sorceress. Enough said and not really requiring explanation I think.

    In summary my X-men team:

    Wolverine - Chaotic Good Dwarven Berzerker with 19 or 20 constitution and grand mastery in dual wielded bladed weapons - can also potentially be a barbarian

    Storm - Neutral Good Elven Fighter/Mage. Can be a Human Swashbuckler dualled to Mage if you want to cut out a thief type character.

    Cyclops - Human Sun Soul Monk (if you fancy melee) or Elven Archer (if you need a ranged specialist) (This would depend on how you use Storm, who could equally specialise in either, going into melee or ranged attack with ice and fire arrows or bolts of lightning).

    Beast - True Neutral Human Shapeshifter

    Nightcrawler - Lawful Good Shadowdancer.

    Jean Grey/Phoenix - Neutral Good Dragon's Disciple.

    Other options:

    For more melee, Colossus as a Half-Orc or Human Barbarian who can "Rage" to increase his Strength and constitution as per his Armoured form.

    Gambit as a Bard/Blade. If no other thief character make him a Fighter/Thief with explosive arrows or a Fighter/Mage/Thief,

    Shadowcat (Kitty Pride) - Thief/Mage.

    Rogue - Inquisitor or Wizard Slayer. Why? Magic disruption = Power stealing. If you don't mind using Half-Orc in the latter case could represent her Ms Marvel type strength. Another great melee option, especially if you want Gambit in the team.

    Post edited by dr_muds on
  • brunardobrunardo Member Posts: 517
    lol whoa @dr_muds you know your marvel lore. most of the above I thought about too and considered Phoenix as DD. Storm think is best for leader and with high Charisma for party leader but wolverine would be beside as "tank" leader and did contemplate him as dwarf berzerker/barb too along with nightcrawler as shadowdancer/swashbuckler but like him as blade for the offensive/defensie spins and its IWD, you need a bard. gambit could be F/T/M as well...most of these are my core favs and think they balance each other out for IWD (cyclops/beast to far strecth for me plus was never a big fan of them)
    your right about cable though...maybe I can make Phoenix mage/cleric. problem is might be too heavy magic party which isnt good for IWD run through

  • dr_mudsdr_muds Member Posts: 73
    edited November 2015
    @brunardo yep I am a huge Marvel fan, and particularly followed Wolverine & the Xmen for close to 20 years now since I was a kid. Some major DC arcs too =).

    Wolverine is one of my favourite characters of all time hence my bias to make him leader... In all honesty Storm would also make an awesome leader and has done so in the comics.

    My recommendations would be based on my ideal X-Men team but you should definitely go with the characters & classes you like - in the end it's your play through & you should role play the game the way you enjoy it best.

    If Beast is out then here's another idea - make Storm your Druid.... Namely the avenger kit. As controlling nature is her power she'll fit the kit to a tee. Druids get a lot of love in IWD with their spells, and on top you'll get chain lightning, lightning bolt among other great Mage spells. And as she's a priest class she'll naturally have healing powers! Naturally high charisma too to make her your leader. You could then save Phoenix as your pure spellcaster without resorting to multi class.

    If you want her to be a little more melee oriented (as your team is a little melee light) make her a Fighter/Druid, meaning Phoenix can be a multi class cleric/Mage (heck she's omnipotent and can do anything). Or, I'm not sure you're going to like this option as you really want the Blade kit, but Nightcrawler as a multi class cleric/thief. Has all the sneaky skills but remember he's a holy man (or elf too) and can quite feasibly be a healer. To get teleport skills you could even play him as a human shadow dancer dualled to cleric - he becomes a bit tougher, and you can role play him as a blue human demon mutate. Depends how much you really want him wielding blades.

    I'm not sure how necessary a Bard is to IWD. I played one in my original play through when the game was first released and apart from the handy easy identifies I thought he was OK but not spectacular. A blade kit is great and an improvement in my book, but he's not going to have the great bard songs that vanilla bards get in EE & the reason why people say bards are must haves. Do it for the fun factor and if you like/want to try the kit but not sure how essential it is.

    Speaking of necessary classes however, I note that you haven't got a potential user of Pale Justice, the best weapon in the original game & usable only by Paladins. To combat your lack of tanks/melee fighters and to be able to use this awesome weapon, as well as the fact you're keen on Gambit, bring in Rogue. She can be an Inquisitor (steals powers/magic) if you want to stick with Good alignment. Only thing is in IWD they aren't as useful as in BG2. The other option I would suggest is Blackguard - absorbs health instead of lay on hand which is similar to rogues ability to weaken others & become stronger by gaining their powers as well as ability to poison similar to that. Yes she'll be an evil alignment but since you're playing the game how you fit (no NPCs) alignment is meaningless, and you can roleplay her as a former misguided villain (brotherhood of evil mutants) turned X-man like in the comics.

    Make sure you have an even/half elven fighter in there somewhere too to make use of the aegis shield.

    Post edited by dr_muds on
  • dr_mudsdr_muds Member Posts: 73
    edited November 2015
    Here's the way I see your team at the moment:

    Storm - Leader Elven/Half Elf Avenger (or fighter/druid for hardiness/melee at expense of those kit spells/abilities)
    Wolverine - Dwarven Dual Wielding Berzeker
    Rogue - Human Blackguard (Psylocke can also play this role if you like her)
    Gambit - Half Elf or Elf a) Blade or b) Fighter/Mage/Thief - focus on staff and throwing darts/daggers
    Nightcrawler - a) elven cleric/thief or human shadowdancer dual to cleric if Gambit is a Blade or b) Human Stalker dualled to Cleric at level 13 - hide in shadows/back stab with Mage bonus spells with added fighter ability (& free dual wield) or multi class cleric/ranger if Gambit is F/M/T or c) Blade if you REALLY want.
    Phoenix - Dragon's Disciple or Wild Mage (if you like to have more spells & gaining XP scribing)

    I'll just say that you need to make sure you have enough tanks & warrior single or multi classes to ensure you survive. Both Gambit & Nightcrawler can't be pure rogues. I would argue a Warrior dual wielding is better than a Blade unless you lack for magic (which you won't).

    Edit: for this post and the one above. Elves/Half-elves can't be multi class cleric/thieves so unfortunately you'd have to be a human dual class for that kind of combo, either that or maybe a Fighter/Cleric or Fighter/Mage/Cleric with Gambit being your thief.

    Post edited by dr_muds on
  • brunardobrunardo Member Posts: 517
    Good to see fellow marvel fan, also started getting into DC later years...funny enough Im a big longshot fan but not sure I can use him in my party ( cast permanent luck spell and give him throwing daggers)

    big rogue fan but cant see her fitting same as colossus and kitty into playable IWD. Gambit has to be thief but maybe F/M/T instead of T/M and nightcrawler could be shadowdancer but dont need more thieves then so better him as blade half elf or F/M Elf.

    Wolverine is short but not 4,5 like a dwarf. short half orc of 5,4 is more feasible and like the strength 19 bonus but definielty make him a duel wield berzerk.
    Storm could fit Druid class but doesnt fit healing spells...maybe avenger kit but like sorceror for her (weather witch).

    You got me thinking of phoenix and maybe DD or Mage/cleric...or maybe Druid too

  • dr_mudsdr_muds Member Posts: 73
    edited November 2015
    That's fair enough, half orcs do rock & I had an avengers black pit run with both hulk & Thor as half orcs (even tho Thor definitely looks humanoid). In the end you want to be accurate to the comic interpretations but at same time want a good balanced team & with the lack of another melee fighter wolverine can benefit from 19 strength.

    I've got a background justice league IWD game going on with Batman as a F/M/T and his utility makes him rock. You don't need a full class thief at all. I would make sure he can buff & tank to compensate for lack of melee fighters.

    I can see where you're going with Nightcrawler - you want a dualwielding swashbuckling type character, in which case definitely go for blade. I think you are very light on tanks however. If you don't mind not being elf do a human shadow dancer to fighter dual, dual wield and he'll be a lot better fighter or to reflect his religious personality a cleric/ranger half elf or stalker to cleric dual could work well & you'll still be able to heal. I can see you're dead set on using a Blade though so fair play, just a few suggestions.

    Agree about colossus & kitty, but I wouldn't discount rogue. Essentially you need a pale justice user and another devoted melee tank. I think the blackguard & inquisitor powers would be a good d&d explanation for her powers (absorb health or dispel magic) where she steals an enemies power or health. If there were HLA's in IWD I would have said make Nightcrawler a kensai/thief so he can use pale justice, unfortunately you can't. If you don't want rogue I would try think of someone who could be a paladin. Possibly Bishop as a Blackguard who has conflict with Gambit, thinking he's a traitor. Bit of a long shot but remember Bishop goes from a guy who's on his own righteous quest and goes all villainous later on in his Xmen career, so it could fit him.

    As for Storm, I had a read of her Wikipedia page and her powers are definitely nature based, and she also has some inherited magic powers. A Druid would be more fitting to her, and the marvel tarot cards call her a high priestess. I wouldn't discount her being able to heal, both with that potential for magic and also being able to summon rainwater or something to heal the thirsty and starved. Bit of a long shot but she's more a Druid then sorceress, and Phoenix definitely is an offensive spellcaster rather than healer.

  • brunardobrunardo Member Posts: 517
    Phoenix for sure would be more offensive so may do cleric (helm) and dual her to mage to focus on offensive TeleKin/TP spells or maybe dual class her as half elf but agreeing with that mix now over Cable ( ur right he's not x-men lol)....make some good points on storm and some druid spells would work better but want her as the offensive spell caster purely....too bad druids cant dual to mage :(
    Weak on tanks but wolverine, psylocke (monk) should be enough with Nightcrawler as back up and gambit with staff if needed and still debating F/M/T with him as wanted him human...was going to duel nightcrawlr from swashbuckler dual to mage but he has to be at least a half "elf" and bard givs up a bit offensive but more well rounded altogether.

    Felt JLA members are too omnipotent for IWD but you got me thinking of a batman playthrough below...

    Batman - Monk (thowing daggers as batarangs and usual explosive "potions" and hide in shadows, trap/illusions detecting and of course the ninja fighting skills.

    Robin (Damien) - assassin, would excel with staff and blade weapons (L.sword, daggers etc), would handle thief needs as well (mainly disarming traps)

    NightWing - Kensai duelwielding maces (night sticks), maybe duel to mage as kensai are terrible single class but would restrict him obviously on spells simliar to F/M/T ur using for batman.

    Zatanna - sorceror (no brainer)

    Batgirl/catwoman - another monk maybe lol, what would I use for a whip and claws??

    Poison Ivy - Need a healer and she obviously fits the druid class and can play into the IWD save the great tree storyline as a "temporary ally"

    Think the x-men playthrough would be more fun but maybe after.

  • dr_mudsdr_muds Member Posts: 73
    edited November 2015
    I really like this idea! The party will be fun to play and has it's own challenges as it will be very stealth and rogue type-centric, as most of the Batman family have those characteristics. The key will be to have an adequate mix of skills to make this party durable and be able to have the appropriate skills to get through the game.

    Batman as a human monk would be perfect, and if you follow my JLA team discussion I seriously considered that option. He's generally a hand to hand combatant, and can unarm or stun a man with his bare hands. The only reason I chose a F/M/T in that particular party was that in that particular group, he is the most adept at playing the rogue/thief, breaking and entering, and the party genius, so thieving and mage abilities to emulate his utility belt and use of horror spells to intimidate enemies were the explanation for that class. However I totally agree with his use as a vanilla kit Monk.

    Robin, as it is Damien with his Assassin's Guild upbringing, has to be Assassin (elf), and you have thieving skills covered and a secondary ranged weapon user. Backstabbing with a staff of striking... ouch! And with Zatanna you have your spell caster covered. She is definitely a sorceress by definition with her abilities being genetic and innate, but if you were so inclined to have someone who can learn spells (as remember sorcerer's can't learn spells from scrolls and therefore miss out on a route for learning XP which might be useful in a full 6 member party) you could feasibly make her into an Illusionist with the extra spells per level on top.

    Nightwing, as the original Robin, has to be in the party. However it is a bit tricky as Damien fulfils the thief role, and you don't want more than one monk. You want to dual wield, so make him into a Stalker (ranger kit). Free dual wield proficient points, a bonus to stealth, and useful skills like haste and protection from normal missiles which will represent his athleticism and acrobatic ability to dodge attacks. You'll also have a durable character and proficient fighter class. Kensai's are too weak defensively for IWD, and the only option to use him would be to dual him to mage, which Nightwing is NOT.

    Cat woman is going to be tricky, and you already have a thief. Unfortunately there is no IWD equivalent to a whip, but I know you like your Bards and the Blade kit, so why not make her a Blade? Better than the usual rogue melee skills, Pick pocket to reflect her burglary abilities, and magic to help her stealth and non-detection, and make a useful secondary spell caster. Offensive and defensive spins reflect her acrobatic abilities. I used find familiar in my play through with Batman in Justice league to make a faerie dragon familiar as "Robin". Make Catwoman Chaotic Neutral alignment, give her find familiar in your team and she has a pet cat to use a scout!

    I see Barbara Gordon as Oracle rather than Batgirl. In which case she is more of a support role player than a ninja/melee fighter after the events of Killing Joke. I can see why you chose Poison Ivy but she has never really been part of that group, and is mainly one of Batman's rogues gallery and predominantly villainous. I would make Oracle your team cleric, with a focus on her losing her stealth/ninja abilities since Joker disabled her. She relies on her faith and wisdom to guide and support the team, and to provide information through divination. Her priest spells would represent the supporting and informative role she can play in the game. As it's IWD, make her a Priest of Helm, as True Sight reflects her ability to gain information from technology and satellites, and Seeking Sword can be from the technology she utilises.

    Finally another option... You know how much I like Paladins in IWD as I think they are a must have due to Pale Justice. How about Jim Gordon as a Cavalier. Your noble, loyal, goes by the book police chief with military training. Make him your shield user and tank (In IWD your players really have to have someone who can take hits and your team on the whole has to be durable). If you scoff at this, and think Jim Gordon is nothing special and has nothing on the other members of Batman family, you have to remember he has all this training, made his way to the top of the police force, and in new 52 dons a robot suit and becomes the new Batman! You can role-play it in a similar way, as well as saying he comes out to join his team to support his daughter after she's been physically and mentally affected by Joker's assault on her.

    Unfortunately that makes 7. So you'd have to drop one. In my personal opinion most of the other characters are a must. Zatanna is the only one who probably has the least strong link to Batman so if anyone I would drop her. If you did that I would make Batman your Fighter/Mage multiclass or Kensai dualled at level 9 or 13 to Mage (remember his genius level intellect... if anyone can be a mage it can be him, and he can still go invisible/stealthy and mage spells reflect his utility belt). He'll still be an awesome melee fighter on top with his kensai bonuses, and the mage spells will mask his lack of armour. Alternatively, Fighter/Mages make some of the best tanks in the game (you want Batman to lead from the front as leader), and you could role-play him as a drow elf as I have. On top either make sure he gets a dagger proficiency from somewhere, or during his mage dual class give him proficiencies in dagger and darts so he can still utilise throwing weapons as batarangs (there are also effective mage daggers which would give him bonus spells, as well as a long sword which does the same so he can dual wield that with a dagger in offhand, giving him extra spells and ability to dish out damage).

    If you choose this option, I'd then make Nightwing or Catwoman your monk. Personally I would make Nightwing the monk. and keep Catwoman as a Blade to give her a Cat familiar, unless you really want Nightwing to dual wield, but then you would miss out on a secondary spell caster.

    Another option to make things even more difficult - Huntress as an Archer kit specialising in crossbows! Deadly ranged fighter.. choices, choices!

    Again I would like to say great party idea to role-play in IWD.

  • brunardobrunardo Member Posts: 517
    Good idea @dr_muds and as always plenty of info - I agree making nightwing as a stalker makes more sense and actually think the cat familiar is hilarious and catwoman as blade using daggers (claws) actually could work with all the reasons you mentioned
    Not a fan of oracle or commish gordan and dont think they would fit in....huntress could work or was thinking azrael as fighter/mage (armor suit) but dont feel they fit into the group either and this leaves only one spot and still need a healer which ivy fills.
    Thanks for the help and hopefully can start a playthrough with the x-men team soon but debating doing another BG runthrough whe nsiege of dragonspear comes out (soon I hope!)

  • dr_mudsdr_muds Member Posts: 73
    No worries and good luck! And maybe give Catwoman proficiencies in flail along with daggers... closest to a cat of nine tails/whip weapon in the game.

    Btw you convinced me to change Batman to Monk, feels a better fit than a ranged F/M/T who also was levelling way too slow in a 6 person party. Have changed Flash to a vanilla Bard as the only kit to make use of the enhanced IWD bard songs to reflect his use of the Speed Force, and having great fun with Green Lantern as a Swashbuckler who will be dual classed to mage. Heard it is a fun one to try and might be good for either your Gambit and Nightcrawler characters when you get to your X-men play through as he can dual wield as well as specialise in weapons, yet still retain good thief skills and level progression.

    I too am going to try an X-men team for Black Pits 2, great idea, can't wait to try it!

  • brunardobrunardo Member Posts: 517
    Lol awesome batman ninja fighting skills is a go, you convinced me too change cable for marvel girl and will make her cleric that will duel to mage (phoenix ) as she gets stronger. x-men team for black pits is a good idea for sure!

  • dr_mudsdr_muds Member Posts: 73
    edited December 2015
    @brunardo I'm going through Black Pits with the awesome X-men idea you had and keep it through Black Pits 2 for continuity - my previous Lord of the Rings and Avengers teams were good for BP1 but too boring to stay through the second run which I am gearing up for, plus I want some continuity between the two without starting a new party.

    Wolverine - Chaotic Good Dwarven Defender dual wielding axes. I agree with the use of Berzerker in your team but I am going with the idea of Wolverine being able to soak up insane amounts of damage due to his resistances and defensive (healing factor) and didn't want to use Barbarian either. Will be an immense tank, and am going with the more supportive leader role Wolverine post Avengers v X-men rather than his more feral animalistic side.

    Rogue - Neutral Good Half-Orc Wizard Slayer. Want the half-orc strength for her Kree hybrid Ms Marvel strength, and there weren't too many warrior options for Half-Orc, but I wanted to try this kit and it fits with her ability to absorb and stop other using their spell casting powers. In BP2 I am going to convert her into a Human Inquisitor to reflect her losing her previous Ms Marvel powers but improving her own skills (plus to use Carsomyr).

    Beast - True Neutral (Blue) Human Shapeshifter. Fills the healer role (team doctor/medic) and can shape shift into a beasty tank form. Also a kit I wanted to try out.

    Nightcrawler - Neutral Good Tiefling (Appearance and race altered in EE Keeper, but technically still Human Mutant) Shadowdancer. For obvious reasons. Misses out on melee prowess and was initially going to go with Cyclops as a Sun Soul Monk instead. However as I am trying out Rasaad in the BG series, am going to stick with Nightcrawler. Rather than go with a Blade, I think he'll be much more powerful going into BP2 dual classing him into Fighter and dual wielding once I've got the second shadow step, although I would have considered a Blade if it was just BP1.

    Storm - Neutral Good Elf Fighter/Mage. Ranged Fighter and Mage abilities. In BP2 wil convert her into a F/M/T to reflect her expert thieving past and to cover thief skills while Nightcrawler dual classes, as well as use some Thieving HLAs.

    Phoenix - Chaotic Good Elven Dragon's Disciple. Obvious reasoning with fire-based innate magical powers.

  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,433
    edited December 2015
    Buffy the Vampire Slayer crew!

    Buffy-Human female undead hunter. Obviously blonde! Go for swords, crossbows and spears. (like stakes) 18/76 str or better (so she is as strong as a regular vampire) as are 18 in dex and con for fighting prowess.

    Willow-cleric/wild mage. (need game editor) Cleric levels are mandatory cos she could cast a raise dead on Buffy on the show. wild mage fits as sometimes, her magic fizzles or malfunctions. Top int and wisdom. Red head! (obv!)

    Tara-Tough pick. Druid? Her spells are more benign and low key, more nature themed, yet she can not raise dead like willow does, so no cleric. High wisdom, but moderate int and low cha. Or a sorceress (she has talented blood) but with not great spell picks. She is definitely not the fire ball throwing kind! More defensive or charm type spells are appropriate for her.

    Xander-has some soldier training so fighter levels. A fighterx dualled into a thief for stealth may work. Or go half elf multi f/t. A blade or skald may be appropriate for him, too, but he does not cast spells in the show.

    Giles-I dunno. Fighter/mage or fighter/cleric? He has some spell training but is not afraid to get his hands dirty. Not great str/dex/con scores, though. In melee, he is good against wimpy characters but sucks against strong vampires.

    Riley-a ranger of sorts, maybe stalker? Buffy's bf in season 4, he is a tough fighter and has some stealth and espionage tactics as well. 18/x str though lower than Buffy, 17 or 18 dex and con.

  • dr_mudsdr_muds Member Posts: 73
    @lunar this is an amazing idea and sounds like a real fun party! With so many undead in Icewind Dale in particular, this party really has the potential to rock,

    Agree with Buffy, Undead Hunter fits quite well and she's not just a one trick pony fighting vampires only (as we as making an unconventional paladin as per her unlikely hero status in the series). Also agree with the weapon proficiencies, with her either using Pale Justice in IWD or Carsomyr in BG2.

    Foe me Xander, Willow and Giles are all essential party members as the original "Scooby Gang".

    However I don't think Xander doesn't fit the fighter/thief mould, he's always been the comic relief and eternal supporting character. Never the main player but always there as backup. All that for me is suggestive of a bard, and more specifically the Jester kit. As mentioned he's often the focus of ridicule and funny moments, not the strongest or most powerful, but he is loyal, quick witted and can confuse and distract the enemy so Buffy and co can take advantage. With his intelligence I don't see it a far stretch him mimicking his friends with low level spells or even reading scrolls. For a power gamer, you could possibly go Skald (Xander's light heartedness and happy go lucky personality has a galvanising role on the party).

    I think the Wild Mage is made for Willow, and wholeheartedly agree with the choice. Willow can be all powerful but is a bit of a glass cannon, but for that reason I also don't see her as a cleric (together with the fact that she mainly focuses on witchcraft rather than divine magic). Sure she has raised the dead, but its not a regular occurrence - she isn't a regular healer, and I see it more as necromancy in action. The raise dead action could rather be explained by a wild surge or powerful Wish spell in action.

    As for Giles, I see where you're coming from, and I think a dual class will suit him best. I say start him as a Ranger (free dual wield, ability to specialise and racial enemy Vampire of course!). These will give him some warrior proficiencies but as you say he won't be as powerful as your main fighters, but definitely useful. The dual class to a cleric with access to druid spells, meaning you cover his more raw arcane magic background, as well as his more supportive role and holy skills like exorcism. That's also your healer sorted.

    I'm not sure if you're a particular fan of Tara and Riley (and if you are by all means fit them in your party, with Tara as a totemic druid or priest of lathander, and Riley being more of a militaristic fighter, or possibly Cavalier as he fights demons, rather than Stalker). Another option if you like going for the minor characters or those in earlier seasons is Oz, Willow's Werewolf ex played by Seth Green. The Shapeshifter is quite fun to play. Faith as a Stalker or Fighter/Thief is another one.

    However, I just can't see a core Buffy team without Angel and Spike, both core characters and love interests throughout the show run, and having major story elements. I'm surprised that they weren't in your team from the start having already considered using an editor for willow as you can actually use one to change their race to Vampire and add all sorts of fun strength and other bonuses... and it would be legitimate! I would go with Angel as a Berzerker, reflecting his ability to enter into Vampire mode and get extra attack bonuses. As for Spike, he's known for his aggressiveness (backstab/assassinate) and has been a criminal, so he's perfect for either Fighter/Thief or an Assassin dualled to Fighter. He'll fulfil the thief role, backstabs and lock picks fit his personality and skills, and you could make him Evil (as that's how he starts) and role-play his change in alignment, similarly to the way he redeems himself in the show. That way he can even use the powerful items for non-good characters in IWDEE.

    Again, great idea and team to play around with, and so many potential fun kit combinations with Undead Hunters, Rangers with vampire racial enemies and adding Vampires into your team with EE Keeper.

  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,433
    edited December 2015
    Yeah, that was just a bit brainstorming. It is fun to create the scooby gang. :)

    I thought about adding Oz as a shapeshifter, but having both Oz and Tara would have been too confusing for poor Willow, so...I think Oz is cuter but I love Willow&Tara more. :)

    Adding Angel and/or Spike would be best but I did not want to play too deeply into the game editors and the like. Mayhap, a permanent magical ring can make Angel and Spike immune to daylight, they can be pretty powerful with high stats but they will have ring slots permanently occupied, etc. Or go Hexxat route in bg2:ee.

    I can see Giles as a fighter or ranger early dualled into cleric. Str 15, dex 15, con 15. He is tough but not exceedingly so. He can benefit from +dex or con items. He can have special tricks against undead (turning and cleric spells)

    Willow may be a cleric 3 dualled into wild mage. (need editor again) she has some healing spells, and can use a raise dead scroll in a pinch:she used to meditate to heal her wounds quicker when she was wounded by a skin eating demon. Yet she is more of a blaster or controller type caster, yeah. Tara is the exact opposite so they can balance each other well.

    Xander is the hardest to create, I agree bard and jester suits him well, sans spell casting. If you take spell casting from a bard, the closest is a fighter/thief.

    The party needs a thief and Spike as a fighter/thief would fit well. I thought about making Willow a thief focused on locks/traps and dual into mage. She was the computer wizard and the best hacker in the first seasons, she later developed her magical talents. Computer hacking/bypassing wards to get the data, may be simulated by the thief levels in the game. Dualling into a (wild) mage and quickly rising in power also fits her character development. Just a thought.

    BTW, I would love to have baldurised (or ice windised) portraits for the scooby gang to play with!

  • dr_mudsdr_muds Member Posts: 73
    I'm pretty sure I've at seen an Alyson Hannigan & Sarah Michelle Gellar baldurised portrait out there somewhere, as well as David Boreanaz...

  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,433
    Yeah I have Willow and Buffy baldurised. Also found Seth Green (Oz) in black leathers with a ringed pointy ear and a mischevious grin, I looove that portrait. I was infatuated with him long ago, short guy or not, he is cute. Err. Anyways, no luck for other members, sadly.

  • brunardobrunardo Member Posts: 517
    awesome party @dr_muds and your going to have your work cut out for you in BP 2, especially the last battle. I might give it a shot too on BP2 before doing my x-men IWDEE run

  • brunardobrunardo Member Posts: 517
    love using eekeeper to get nightcrawler s tiefling, might consider that too, beast should be fun too and agree with storm on fmt, it works!

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