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Never completed a Walkthrough of the game, help me with party choices please

Every time I start a game, I end up losing enthusiasm for my current party in favour of a new one I can think of. I have only ever got one party in and out of the Underdark, and even that party lost it's shine to me. While I try to be as literally optimal as possible (as in that Underdark party was dropped to due to them failing to pick up Boots of Speed in Spellhold, yeah THAT optimal! (I was planning on getting 6 pairs)), I keep coming up writing down ideas for better or weirder parties.

So I am need of help from the experts of this game to assist me in deciding which NPCs I should pick for this challenge of doing my first playthrough of SoA and ToB.

Currently this is my tactical squad of murdering good guys: (This is a goodish run)

CHARNAME (Undead Hunter)
Valygar (Stalker)
Anomen (Fighter/Cleric)
Jaheira (Fighter/Druid)
Haer'Dalis (Blade)
Jan (Thief/Illusionist)

The main problems are using either Jan/Imoen/Nalia and Valygar/Minsc so can you guys give me more insight into which I should choose please? :smile:

Comments

  • naggertnaggert Member Posts: 65
    Have you thought about creating some custom characters instead? I find some of the NPCs to be rather dull, and usually always end with the same few, mixed with my own custom ones.
    I really grow attached to my own PC's and tend to have several playthroughs with them :)

    I usually have
    CHARNAME (swashbuckler)
    CHARNAME (sorcerer)
    CHARNAME (fighter)
    Minsc
    Viconia
    Korgan / Sarevok

    I then usually swap out a spot for whomever I fancy. Like if I want to experience a certain quest, I pick up that NPC in favor for Korgan. (I always end up playing high reputation and mister fuzzy-beard doesn't like it).
  • dracostrikedracostrike Member Posts: 151
    Thing is I would miss out the unique interactions between most of the party then, plus without Jaheira, I lose access to the Reaching Ring :/ Maybe for another time I will do some Custom parties but for the first time I clear this game, I would to do it with a npc team ^^
  • naggertnaggert Member Posts: 65
    Good point :)
    I'd recommend adding Minsc and Boo instead of Anomen or Haer'Dalis then.
    He's so goofy and whacky.

    Have you experience with either CLUA or programs like EE keeper? You could add the missing pair of boots, if that's what keeping you from playing with your previous party.
  • dracostrikedracostrike Member Posts: 151
    They missed a chance to challenge Drizzt too, that's something that I really looked forward too. So I accept his help at first to get them to help clear out Bodhi's place but the moment I turned on him, or in this case, Minsc got dominated and whacked him, he runs off :/

    Better to start anew here, particularly since my attempts at both of those programs proved my computer skills are like a Walrus in a tractor........You can put one there but it won't know what it's doing ^^

    But you did mention Minsc, do you think he's better than Valygar overall?
  • naggertnaggert Member Posts: 65
    Ah true. Are you up for spoilers?
    There's some issues with Drizzt gear...

    Honestly, I never used Valygar much. I disliked his character portrait and skipped him almost entirely.
    I find Minsc and Boo to be SO much more entertaining. Especially in in the early part of spellhold.
    I usually give him a two-handed sword and full plate and totally neglect his ranger abilities - except rage.
    He's awesome as a front-line fighter, and since my CHARNAME is a swashbuckler / I don't fancy backstabbing, I never used Valygar.
    Minsc seems more versitile and I prefer him in TOB due to Valygars armor restriction.

    There's also so much more history with Minsc. The majority of BG1 and how he's trapped in the dungeon with you in BG2.
    BanArd
  • naggertnaggert Member Posts: 65
    BUTT KICKING FOR GOODNESS!
    BanArd
  • dracostrikedracostrike Member Posts: 151
    With Valygar, I learnt how good Backstabbing can be, particularly when it comes to one-shotting mages. And he would still use the same items as Minsc in the end, dual wielding and White Dragon Scales, meaning both could still stealth, but Valygar would have the backstab over him.

    True though, Minsc does have the past with us and from what I have heard plenty of dialogue with most characters.

    So I need more persuasion before I can truly one or the other in this case, but what about Jan/Imoen/Nalia as the main mage with thief powers?
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308
    edited March 2016
    that's an okay party but you need more arcane oomph

    the crux of this party is having many warriors + haer'dalis (because of improved bard song). that's the concept that everything rotates around whether you're aware of it or not :D

    so haer'dalis must stay
    also you want to keep four warriors (you have that)

    that's five slots

    the sixth slot is for an arcane guy and since there isn't one already (haer'dalis is a useful caster but he doesn't qualify for this job), the one you pick should, as a norm, be a full-level arcane caster (not a multi- guy like jan)

    so you must replace him with imoen or neera...but you also need a thief so you must pick imoen; she's a good enough thief

    so you have:

    CHARNAME (Undead Hunter) - bad kit!
    Valygar (Stalker) - replace him!
    Anomen (Fighter/Cleric) - optimal.
    Jaheira (Fighter/Druid) - optimal.
    Haer'Dalis (Blade) - necessary.
    Immy (Thief 7/Mage)

    valygar is inferior to mazzy who is the best warrior so you should put her in
    pc undead hunter is an overall suboptimal pick so you could pick an inquisitor if you want to play a paladin
    inquisitor compensates for the lack of spellpower because spells are for fighting mages and inquisitor is good at fighting mages!

    so this is the final version #1

    CHARNAME (Inquisitor)
    Mazzy (Fighter)

    Anomen (Fighter/Cleric)
    Jaheira (Fighter/Druid)
    Haer'Dalis (Blade)
    Immy (Thief 7/Mage)

    but but! this is not an optimal party!
    it's because you don't have to play as inquisitor - you take keldorn for that.
    that frees the PC to pick a more optimal high-power class. that's generally a multi. you should really pick fighter/mage!
    that will make your party extremely competent against magic-users because you'll have an inquisitor and three arcane casters, a druid and also a cleric (less important against mages)

    the problem is - whom to replace with keldorn?
    that should be mazzy, even though she's an absolute powerhouse...see this is the trick: even though your party relies on having four warriors, neither of them is an optimal warrior all by himself (except maybe anomen but that's because of his divine spells). but it's still a pretty optimal party because every one of these warriors brings an element of versatility to the table:

    (party ver. #2)

    CHARNAME (fighter/mage) - he brings additional higher-level arcane spells needed to fight the toughest of enemies
    Keldorn (Inquisitor) - he brings dispel and true sight also useful in tough fights
    Anomen (Fighter/Cleric) - he buffs the party with cleric spells, performs restorations and turns and generally smites undead (so what's the point of an undead hunter?)
    Jaheira (Fighter/Druid) - she devastates all mages with insect plague

    Haer'Dalis (Blade) - he sings the improved bard song that makes your warriors mow over non-magic-users
    Immy (Thief 7/Mage)

    so that's it.
    later you get sarevok. you can replace keldorn or jaheira with sarevok, but you don't have to.
  • dracostrikedracostrike Member Posts: 151
    Thanks for that awesome and in depth reply :)

    Now for the response, Keldorn and Anomen in the same party present me the problem of one of them having a lower AC due to the 18 Dex Bracers. Then again Blessed Bracers to Keldorn could at least help on that front.

    I agree that Imoen is the best out of the high-level mages but getting to her is the issue, but I suppose I could use Nalia up to chapter 4, grab Yoshimo then take him to Spellhold for his heart exp for Imoen.

    Thing is 3 arcane casters in part to me seems a bit much, also considering that Vecna and the Bladesinger chain upgraded are the best armors of mages really. Robes of the Archmagi don't protect anymore enough tbh and without the boost to casting, it's not worth the AC being that low.

    Also the Undead Fighter was so I don't need to deal with hold and level drain, Carsomyr gives me similar abilities to the Inquisitor too.

    Honestly to me, the main problem with the party you presented was the low Dex of the two in the Order :) I like it, but I know it's going to hard to keep them alive with ACs which are lower than 16.
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308
    edited March 2016
    1. anomen doesn't need bracers of dexterity because of his cleric buffs; even keldorn doesn't suffer terribly without them because he's got armor basically :smile:

    2. better take jan then

    3. three arcane casters is not too much! the game is very oriented towards arcane magic; after all you have 4 warriors, so why would 3x arcane be much? :smile:

    4. level drain is not a problem when you have a cleric. carsomyr's dispel is great but keldorn's kit abilities are better still, and he's immune to hold as well; also, carsomyr is a great offensive weapon and if you don't have a paladin in the party there's no one to use it so it'd be a shame not to exploit it via the classic keldorn + carsomyr combo; making a pally PC instead is almost never a better alternative because multiclassing is so OP and missing out on either it or smart dual-classing is a waste of a PC :)
    undead hunter is for killing undead and they are not very tough or very prevalent in BG2, unlike magic-users (who may also be undead, but the fact that they are magic users is always more important)

    5. low dex is not a problem. stats in general are not a problem, don't think about them. think about the abilities.
  • dracostrikedracostrike Member Posts: 151
    I will go for the idea about taking Imoen, because I can rush to her and she does have a lot of pluses over Jan, whereas Jan has about only 2 things he can do better than her, Thieving and being an Illusionist. (Not counting stories)

    I know it's very arcane based and I like that, but having every character able to cast spells is enough "magic" for me :) I know it's not all arcane but I would like to keep 4 characters as some sort of fighters considering there are 4 -2AC armours for them to loot ^^

    Also I looked into Mazzy over Valygar and it seems like she is worth a shot, never used her before but I assume it's throw a shortbow at her, wait for her to gain levels and move her to the frontline ready to smash everything :smiley: 

    Also on the level drain front, I like all my front row fighters to at least be Immune to Level Drain and have Regen ^^ It's just something I like, and surprisingly easy to achieve.

    But here's an odd question, a character with 100 MR, are they affected by Level Drain?
  • sansserifsansserif Member Posts: 125
    I prefer the evilish party nevertheless. Enjoyed the banters.
    Regarding the boots of speed though, the most I ever got was 5 boots + grandmaster armor + amulet of cheetah speed. last two are ToB items but serve the same purpose of increasing movement speed.
    P/S: If you're in a good party, I do think you should take Minsc. I think he's the most powerful *good* character in the game. Generally I prefer Imoen over Jan since you're playing the good party. Well, one reason is she makes sense to the storyline, another reason is because she's dual classed to mage and gains mage levels.
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308
    no, minsc is the worst warrior. valygar is better and he's still way inferior to the top tier bunch.
  • sansserifsansserif Member Posts: 125
    bob_veng said:
    no, minsc is the worst warrior. valygar is better and he's still way inferior to the top tier bunch.

    Okay, then considered the most "talkative" warrior then. I also had Valygar, but didn't carry those two long term.
    I actually completed my last run with Dorn and Korgan as my main melee warriors, but I think Sarevok is the best and coolest character to have. Opinions differ though.
  • dracostrikedracostrike Member Posts: 151
    Thanks guys for your insight to the warriors, I can see that:

    Minsc, while he is the most talkative, he carries the least stats.
    Valygar, his restrictions on armour don't apply to me but not every enemy can be backstabbed.
    Mazzy, is by far the most dangerous lategame outside the backstab burst.

    Looking over what possible items that this warrior could use, I noticed I could use a Cloak of Non-Detection on Valygar so he cannot be spotted by true sight casters, which has happened sometimes when he stealths into their vision.
    Combine this with the last best armour that this warrior could use due to the others already being taken, the White Dragon Scale will allow him to act as a great opener to a fight.
    Throw on 2 Rings of Fire Control and you have an assassin who can continue to tank and fight after the backstab, while enduring AoE fire spells flung at the start of the fight.

    Looks like Vaylgar wins but only due to what items remain
  • sansserifsansserif Member Posts: 125
    Thanks guys for your insight to the warriors, I can see that:

    Minsc, while he is the most talkative, he carries the least stats.
    Valygar, his restrictions on armour don't apply to me but not every enemy can be backstabbed.
    Mazzy, is by far the most dangerous lategame outside the backstab burst.

    Looking over what possible items that this warrior could use, I noticed I could use a Cloak of Non-Detection on Valygar so he cannot be spotted by true sight casters, which has happened sometimes when he stealths into their vision.
    Combine this with the last best armour that this warrior could use due to the others already being taken, the White Dragon Scale will allow him to act as a great opener to a fight.
    Throw on 2 Rings of Fire Control and you have an assassin who can continue to tank and fight after the backstab, while enduring AoE fire spells flung at the start of the fight.

    Looks like Vaylgar wins but only due to what items remain
    Nice points. Ive never used Valygar for long, but he does what he is required to, as a stalker/ranger type. he's not a "straight on melee" type, like Minsc - which I'd prefer Dorn and Korgan/Sarevok (over Minsc) for a neutral/evil party. While his berserk comes in handy I'd prefer Korgan's Enrage which you can control and Dorn's poison weapon/various blackguard abilities. Well, I guess every char has their own pros and cons - including their alignment.
  • dracostrikedracostrike Member Posts: 151
    It's a pity I want my first run to be Heroic but it just feels right to me ^^

    I looked over Dorn and Korgan and god, they are tough characters, plus Dorn takes you to heaven :)
  • sansserifsansserif Member Posts: 125
    It's a pity I want my first run to be Heroic but it just feels right to me ^^

    I looked over Dorn and Korgan and god, they are tough characters, plus Dorn takes you to heaven :)
    Yeah true... ^^ that's why I'm trying a neutral PC... now I knew  what I missed going "the good party" ages ago in the original bg2


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