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Reactions after beating game (Major spoilers!)

EldrythEldryth Member Posts: 56
edited April 2016 in Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear
Yes, I know this is very early. I played on Story Mode since the story hooked me and I was more concerned about what happens next than the combat, and it was so amazing that I couldn't put it down (never happened before to nearly this extent- very glad I had no work to do today or yesterday afternoon!) Definitely plan on replaying on another difficulty soon, though.

The EE additions may have been mediocre, but this time, Beamdog really pulled it off. Siege of Dragonspear is nothing short of amazing! Right now, I'd rank it as my second favorite in the series after Shadows of Amn- maybe it's position will fall once the excitement wears off, but it's definitely a very worthy entry in the series. I'm convinced now- I have complete faith that Beamdog can make Baldur's Gate 3 and do it justice.

Corwin definitely stood out as an amazing NPC- possibly my new favorite companion in the series. Having recently replayed Neera's content in BG:EE, I can say that they're not even comparable in quality- they did *much* better this time around. [Her romance was great too. I really want to see her added to BG2- I can't think of why she would leave her daughter, but I'm sure they can find a way, so I'll make sure to request it, since the AmA said it's possible!]

I also used Voghiln- he was okay, but I wonder if he was bugged since I never got any conversations besides his banters with the other companions. Minsc and Dynaheir are still amazing, and Safana's much better now that she has more personality. Haven't used the others much yet.

The main plot may be linear, but there's a lot to do in each area before moving on. Without spoiling details, the choices you make and sidequests you do also have a very noticeable impact on the later parts of the main story.

About the antagonist:

Caelar Argent is an amazing character. I liked how despite her being the main antagonist, she wasn't actually the real villain. Her real intentions and actions at the end surprised me, and despite the fact that her actions were wrong, I can't completely disagree with them. I actually felt bad for her in the end. She's a very believable character, and stands up well in comparison with Sarevok and even Irenicus. The real villains, Hephernaan and his master, are more bland in comparison, but they're not the focus of the story anyway- and besides, hiding your character and intentions fits a deceiver very well.


About the ending:

I was completely shocked and somewhat heartbroken by the ending. We all knew that something horrible forced you away from the city, but I didn't expect anything even close to this cruel. I despise Irenicus even more than ever, and now I can't decide whether to play BG2 again right away to kill him for it or wait for news on the possible Corwin patch or DLC like I had planned to. One thing's for sure- nobody can say there's no room for another expansion or sequel anymore. Even if it's not about Bhaal, I doubt there's any PC that wouldn't want to search for that dagger now. After all the development Skie got, I'd love an adventure to save her and clear my name.


After 15 years, I can finally say- Baldur's Gate is back and as amazing as ever! Well done Beamdog, you've managed to resurrect one of the greatest franchises ever to it's former glory despite it being dead for over a decade! I'll be eagerly waiting to see what you make next, and hoping that it's either BG3 or a BG2 expansion about you-know-what ;). And, of course, Corwin in BG2!

Comments

  • SirBatinceSirBatince Member Posts: 882
    Loving SOD so far. Haven't finished it yet.

    My only complaint is the ammount of quest items. Like jesus man. I have no idea what to do with this inventory clutter. Even BG2 didn't have that much.

    Loving hearing irenicus' actor again though.
  • IllydthIllydth Member, Developer Posts: 1,641
    *cracks knuckles* :)


    When asked to write an internal review for this game a while back, Caelar was one of the highlights of that review. It's been a LONG time since I walked through a video game and said "Damn, the antagonist is right. Maybe *I* am the bad guy." and actually believed it.

    The overarching "Save the Dead from Hell" looks, on the surface, to be such a noble cause it's almost frustrating that you can't just jump in and tell Caelar "YES! I'm with you!"

    And that's as much to do with the force of will and the emotion the writers put into Caelar's character than anything else. She is absolutely one of my all time favorite Antagonists in a video game.

    "I was completely shocked and somewhat heartbroken by the ending. We all knew that something horrible forced you away from the city, but I didn't expect anything even close to this cruel."

    I should ask you how you made out during the Trial. Without giving away too much, there are multiple ways to come out of the trial. Also did you play good, neutral or evil? What kind of reputation did you end with?

    These are all factors into the ending and actually change the emotional feeling you will get in the final scenes.


    Also, i'd like to commend you on good use of spoiler tags in this post. :)
  • EldrythEldryth Member Posts: 56
    I played a Paladin, so good, max reputation. The trial seemed to go well- the city was divided, but the Dukes supported me (apart from Silvershield) and the guard that escorted me considered me a hero.
  • yaballayaballa Member Posts: 41
    I love this game, just beat it!
    There is hope for humanity after all - this is a labour of love!
    What we now need is a lengthier Beamdog game :wink:

    P.S. Whoever wrote Safana's romance is a genius haha
  • EnialusMeliamneEnialusMeliamne Member Posts: 399
    I just finished it up myself, also with a Paladin (Cavalier). This game just surpassed greatest of all time for me, and I couldn't be more pleased with how it came out. The ending was heart wrenching, and nearly pulled tears of empathy out of me. All I can say to that, is well done Beamdog. No other game has had as much of an emotional response as this one did. Thanks for a game that I'll be playing for a very long time, just as I have its successors.
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    I just beat the game, too. Wow. Just wow. That was simply amazing, best story/visual presentation I have ever seen in any ie game. Everything seems to fit, everything seems to be what it should. If this is an 'expansion' to bg1, as is tob to bg2, it puts tob to shame. That much is for certain. I couldn't stop playing until I saw it to the end. It was addictive, and it was glorious.

    The challenge was nice, way harder than I imagined, very heart racing, and I love the new things never seen before in infinity engine. Sadly, I lost Glint in the final battle, he was chunked. Was he into my male charname, I suspect so but I will have to play again just to find out!
  • AndrewFoleyAndrewFoley Member Posts: 744
    yaballa said:

    P.S. Whoever wrote Safana's romance is a genius haha

    @Amber_Scott strikes again!

  • TriaxxTriaxx Member Posts: 56
    edited April 2016
    Game wasn't as long as I expected. The ending was a bit rushed and anticlimactic, but I wouldn't say I thought it was bad. I was mostly disappointed Caelar turned out to be an Anakin Skywlaker clone, turning into a Blackguard 10 seconds before the finale, rather than what she was portrayed as the whole time: an engaging antagonist with an interesting stance that we had to make a final choice to support or not. The expansion didn't really have much roleplay involved, especially whenever I was talking to Caelar, and the game was blatantly biased towards me being confrontational, and anytime I tried to be diplomatic or even attempt to side with her the game would step in and be all "BUT THOU MUST" and make my choice moot somehow, even if it meant when I say:

    "Yeah I'll go with you if it means a peaceful option and we can come to an understanding"

    some NPC would step in and be like "Nope you're not allowed to do that"

    and then Caelar would answer: "ALRIGHT THEN IF YOU INSIST ON REFUSING ME THEN ITS WAR."

    Well wait a minute didn't I just say I'd go with you? Who is this random NPC suddenly making all my choices for me?

    Although, I did notice the subtle reaction differences depending on how many quests you did and the reputation you held as far as how people react at the end. It didn't fix the fact that everyone suddenly turns on you less than 2 minutes after thanking storming Hell with no hesitation, which was where the whole "rushed" part comes in. Honestly this game mostly gives three dialogue options like in Dragon Age 2: Nice, Snarky, and Mean. People all react the exact same no matter which you pick for the most part and all it really affects is how many pitchforks the mob brings to your sham trial.

    Also, the "romances" must have either not been working for me or they're frankly pathetically short. I got as far as the "make a choice" dialogue and then got a final talk whilst in the underground river. Viconia complained about the dark, Safana said something about "lets make out sometime later" and Neera gave me a snog but said nothing after completing her quest.

    I was pretty amused by that fact that when I killed Caelar after she immediatly went from "Oh no I've been tricked and must defeat this demon!" into "Actually f**k it I'll become your Blackguard" in that I gibbed her into this tiny bit of meat, which her uncle proceeded to have heartfelt last words with.

    Left me in tears.
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    edited April 2016
    @Triaxx


    Did YOU kill Caelar? I did not fight Caelar at the end. She fought by my side against the final boss, that was glorious. Guess there are sort of multiple paths. Cool.


  • Grimo88Grimo88 Member Posts: 191
    the reveal of the final boss had me grinning like an idiot. So happy with this game.
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    Grimo88 said:

    the reveal of the final boss had me grinning like an idiot. So happy with this game.

    Me too! I actually thought about it beforehand, but I was like 'nah, it can not be! But what if it was?' And when it turned out to be exactly what I thought it was, I was overjoyed. So cool.

  • IllustairIllustair Member Posts: 877
    edited April 2016
    Please enclose as spoilers those with well, spoilers. I know that the thread says "major spoilers" but at the same time it also says "reactions," and the latter is the reason why I'm here i.e. to know the general reception. Surely there's still reasonable expectation that spoiler tags will be used when the situation calls for it; thread title wouldn't suffice. I was almost spoiled big time by one post here. Good thing I was able to scroll down just before I could fully comprehend what I was reading..or maybe I'm just pretending and I'm already just telling myself that I didn't just read a certain iconic fictional name.

    EDIT: Assuming that I did, it could mean anything, right?
  • InsultionInsultion Member Posts: 179
    edited April 2016
    I was a little mad, at the end. Not because the game was bad, or because the story lacked, but more because in the scope of the game I was limited to being Caelar's enemy. In a real situation, both me and my character would have chosen to side with Caelar.

    That isn't to say I or Sera, the character I ran through with, would have condoned the slaughter and ravaging along the way, but it would be a lot easier to stop it as an ally than as an enemy, and I didn't disagree with the end cause before OR after realizing it was solely for her uncle.


    Similar sentiment on the reveal, by the way.
    Especially since I actually like IWD1 and 2 more than BG
  • AramintaiAramintai Member Posts: 232
    edited April 2016
    I liked the overall story and how it ties with
    Icewind Dale series.
    The antagonist was pretty awesome, even though I figured who the real villain was right when I heard about
    the Nine Hells and saw brother Poquelin's sprite - you really shouldn't have used that same asset on Haphernann, it's too distinct. But her sudden willingness to become Belhifet's blackguard which then was then easily rebuked by protagonist's convincing line was silly.

    Also the Hooded Man everything was super awesome -
    you just nailed why Irenicus is one of the top villains of all times. His ability to get under protagonist's skin and inspire hate with his supreme insidiousness is undeniable. Even Belhifet can learn a thing or two from him.

    I also liked all of the side quests, way more elaborate than simple BG1 quests.

    Some of the NPCs' dialogue and choices that were made for them weren't to my taste because I've my own canon going on for like 17 years now, but it was a decent, respectful attempt.
    For example, the ones I didn't like were - the reason why Imoen was not in my party;
    Skie being used as a plot device to frame protagonist of her murder;
    Khalid & Jaheira leaving the protagonist in the beginning of the game when previously they took their guardians duty very seriously; them being too openly lovey dovey and Khalid's newfound courage at Boareskyr fort was also kinda out of character for them.

    I also appreciate the effort put into getting most of the old actors back for so many voiced lines.

    The ending though, felt kinda rushed, anticlimactic and not how I imagined it would be as a tie in with BG2.
    There was no mention in BG2 that the protagonist was driven out of Baldur's Gate for murder or stripped of the city's hero title in such an unceremonious fashion.
    And this whole murder thing only leaves one big dangling loose end, because even though Irenicus will ultimately be punished, there will be no resolution for Skie's murder - no soul dagger to return to her grieving father and no way to mend a tarnished reputation.
    It should have simply ended with the party being ambushed on their way from Dragonspear castle to Baldur's Gate. Canon party in the end was also poorly explained - except for Imoen, if I didn't travel with the rest of them I'd be very surprised as to why they'd be there all of a sudden.


    But all in all, it was a very decent attempt, good job, devs. Now go and make Planescape: Torment: EE already! >:)
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