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Does anyone have any advice for Firewine Ruins!

I'm going to be honest here and say that I'm on the verge of breaking my keyboard and other PC equipment which I have due to the amount of frustration I gathered up trying to control my party of six in the Firewine Ruins because of pathetic pathfinding system BioWare was too lazy to fix.

Now I have atleast reloaded 6+ times while here because of either some party members or worse my main fragile PC (mage) die from either traps or from mobs who were supposed to target my tank but instead target some other party members who are unable to escape because other party members are blocking their way.
This happens mainly because I can't get my tank to go infront of the party thus creating more unnecessary frustration out of me.

So I got here asking if any of you folk have any advice on how to manage my party from this terrible garbage that is called pathfinding. I know it's not hard and I remember that I cleared these ruins before (although I can't remember was I angry as much as I did now).

Thanks in forward.

Comments

  • ElendarElendar Member Posts: 831
    Wait until patch 2.0 comes out in a day or two with its pathfinding improvements.

    Jarrakul
  • dunbardunbar Member Posts: 1,554
  • redlineredline Member Posts: 285
    Since you're only dealing with kobolds (aside from one or two hairy encounters others have mentioned), I tend to leave most of my party in a safe, trap-free spot, then tackle the dungeon with just my thief (invisible from a potion or spell, just there to check for traps) and a tank or archer. With decent equipment, a single combat-oriented PC can handle the dungeon solo, once the traps are dealt with. Way less stressful than worrying about the bottlenecks and other pathfinding woes that come with a full six-person party in those narrow corridors.

    And if you stumble across something more threatening than kobolds, fall back and regroup.

    BBuk80
  • chilvencechilvence Member Posts: 50
    Take one character with a wand of fireballs and protection from fire to annihilate the kobold nuisance, then regroup to deal with the ogre mage. Another good strategy against the kobolds is if you have a fighter with high missile resistance (boots of avoidance+cloak of displacement+large shield), since they will continue to ineffectually target you with arrows while you explode them one by one.

    I actually do a lot of dungeons with just a couple of characters, depending on the situation, as there is generally less chance of a mishap taking out the whole group. An especially helpful tactic is to hide your party near a door or cave entrance, send one chap in to trick the enemy into chasing you, then ambush them on the other side of the doorway, where they have no chance of using ranged weapons or spells. There is also no shame in having your weaker characters sit far away from danger, if they can't contribute to a battle then they are simply in the way.

    In any case, if you haven't got at least one character that can single handedly deal with the groups of kobold archers, there isn't really any non-irritating way to tackle this dungeon. It's just a bad design, which since BG1 was the first game in the series, bad choices couldn't really have been avoided. Incidentally it seems they learned their lesson, as BG1 is the only infinity game to have this style of dungeon - three times! Eugh...

  • ChnapyChnapy Member Posts: 360
    Same as a few here, i usually send a tank in first. Give him a full-plate, the "senses of the cat" boots, maybe a tower shield and be done with it.

  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    Thief invisible disarming all the traps and backstabbing the hell out of that wizard.

    Ranged character using boots of avoidance + girdle of piercing + cloak of displacement clearing the path to a melee character (to deal with the ogre with ranged backup).

    JuliusBorisov
  • KaigenKaigen Member Posts: 1,567
    Note that if you're trying to get to the ghost knights for that sidequest, you'll probably have an easier time reaching them from the entrance in the basement of the brewery, as opposed to the other entrances. I mostly make use of the straight line formation and move the group a little at a time.

    Jarrakul
  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,100
    Firewine is best solo'd. Controlling one character in there is easy. A party? I wouldn't even think about it.

    BelfaldurnikThomasB96
  • thelovebatthelovebat Member Posts: 218
    edited March 2016
    The first thing I'd do is have a tanky character in the front at all times, and possibly have another fighting type character at the rear of the formation in case some kobolds try flanking you (so your weaker spellcasters aren't getting pelted with arrows). So organize the portraits on the right side of the screen accordingly and this will affect how characters line up in the formation you have selected. Your party leader (the top portrait), should likely be someone with top tier AC and hit points. Having a party leader with a high Charisma is generally recommended as well, though for this dungeon you could have anyone you want as party leader temporarily. To change the party order of the portraits, left click + right click and drag the portrait up or down to change the party order. Those at the top of the portrait order will appear at the front of the formation, while those at the bottom will bring up the rear. The highlighted symbol in the formation icon is where the party leader will go, some formations being useful for weaker spellcasters with good Charisma you want as party leader.

    The best thing for you to do is to complete the Nashkel Mines, then after defeating another assassin while back in Nashkel there's a piece of equipment you get from them which gives you a great improvement against ranged weapon attacks. Give this to your party leader at the front of the formation. In the Nashkel Shop you can also purchase a +1 Large Shield, which would be a great help if you don't already have one to equip on one of your frontliners (even just temporarily if you don't usually equip those in your party with a shield). The joinable NPCs Ajantis, Kagain, and Jaheira make for great tanks respectively, and have the Strength needed to wear the heaviest armor and use big shields. Minsc could be a decent tank too, though he's more fit for two handed weapons instead of one handed. There's also the 'ogre with a belt fetish' you encountered south of the Friendly Arm Inn who had a few belts you could loot after killing him, one of those belts gives you +3 AC vs. piercing & ranged attacks, which could also really help you in the ruins.

    While moving through the dungeon, I'd start off from the secret entrance in Gullykin (which makes dealing with a related quest much easier), then use the thin staggered formation (should look like a 6 dotted pentagon shape). This'll make sure your party members line up in a thinner formation that'll make it easier to move through and navigate the dungeon, while screwing with their pathfinding a little less. Most of the time, when you see an enemy in a dungeon it's better to use the pause function as necessary to make sure the pathfinding isn't doing something screwy with your party members, and moving your party leader forward by themselves first to ensure they're the one getting the arrows shot at them. I'd only move all the people in your party at the same time while not in combat, otherwise I'd make sure to just move them individually to navigate a bit better.

    A tactic I usually use is to have only two of my party members fit with melee (generally with a shield and whatever AC boosting equipment I have), though if my main character is a dual wielding front liner I may keep them that way to mow through the kobolds and enemies faster. Everyone else is decked out with ranged weapons, so they can contribute to combat and get some hits in without having the pathfinding having them wander off to get themselves killed. Have one or both of your melee people move in to take the heat away from everyone else, then move your other party members into the edge of where they can use ranged weapons. It's important to move them into attacking range first before issuing the attack command, so your party members don't trip over each other with pathfinding.

    One you get into the habit of things and find what works for you, kobolds and kobold commandos aren't that hard to dispatch, it's more the pathfinding and thin corridors that drive people nuts with the dungeon (and not being able to surround the kobolds en mass as a result to just bash them into the ground). With the corridors you can usually only get 2, maybe 3 characters to attack in melee at the front line before the choke point prevents others from joining in. As you'll find out, no matter how many flaming arrows get shot at you, you'll still be able to loot them from kobold commandos. So when you have the dungeon figured out, you'll get yourself a lot of flame arrows stocked up from the loot which is a nice little bonus for your archers in tougher fights later on in the game. Or you can sell them if you wish, but I'd keep them stocked somewhere for when you'd want to have them.

    Just make sure not to rest more than necessary inside, as respawning enemies could potentially make things an issue staying alive. So it's probably better for your healers to have some healing spells memorized instead of buffs for this particular dungeon, and any spells that protect from fire. The Cleric and Mage should both have some spells which protect from fire, but it all depends on what level your spellcasters are.

    JuliusBorisov
  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 5,702
    Armoured fighter and thief at the front.
    Armoured fighter at the back for defence.
    Squishies and ranged in the middle.

    Move slowly, one by one. Bring plenty of healing spells and potions. Summon creatures for the front or back, if you need.

    Ardul
  • Camus34Camus34 Member Posts: 203
    Try not to get your party all bunched up, can't tell you how many times my thief and cleric got stuck up front fighting wolves...lol Why are wolves in a ruin to begin with, and why don't they set off all the traps? XD

  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,769
    I take a tank and a thief and move them individually. Tank first, then bring up the thief to check for traps. I keep the rest of the party further back in that tight, staggered formation. Scout far ahead with the fighter and thief and occasionally bring the party to catch up. With only four characters moving together, they tend not to stumble over each other as much.

    typo_tillyCamus34thelovebat
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,600
    @Camus34 , I think you're thinking of the Ulcaster School Ruins, not the Firewine Ruins.

  • CloutierCloutier Member Posts: 211
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,050
    edited March 2016
    Enable party AI. Buff everyone and let your party just indiscriminately kill kobolds as they come at you (and hope they don't trigger any traps in the process)

  • prairiechickenprairiechicken Member Posts: 149
    edited March 2016
    I just send out single thief to disarm everything. If you run across mobs run away and come back with full might of the party, repeat.

    (And Durlag's tower gave me patience to do anything, loathe that place)

    typo_tilly
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    My advice: don't bother with the Firewine Ruins.

    Alexisisinneed
  • drawnacroldrawnacrol Member Posts: 253
    Enter through Gullykin
    Kill Ogre
    Explore Area()
    Do the lost knight quest if you want

    Exit and never look back

  • bbgun21bbgun21 Member Posts: 16

    Enter through Gullykin
    Kill Ogre
    Explore Area()
    Do the lost knight quest if you want

    Exit and never look back

    Yeah, this is what I thought to do , only the ones that give alot of XP are what I'm going to suffer through.

    Thanks everyone for the replies.

  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    First I go down the stairs right to the boss fight.

    Then after killing them I cast Invisibility on my thief and have her scout the dungeon and disarm everything.

    By the time I'm doing that annoying dungeon I can just send like one person along and they have so much AC they only get hit on a nat20 and they sort of murderize every kobold. Bonus points for being fire resistant.

    typo_tilly
  • LateralusLateralus Member Posts: 903
    IDK if it's still in effect, but I can recall sleeping in the dungeon, being awakened by a MASSIVE horde of kobalds, and after dispatching them? No more kobolds. I mean it was like they got everybody together and put all their chickens in one basket, leaving the unexplored dungeon void of kobolds.

    Of course, that didn't make me less nervous about ambushes, but that scenario has worked a couple times in the past. And oh yeah, make sure you can kill them all and quickly!

    A lot of people hate that dungeon but I find it fun, they are very sneaky and very deadly! Surprisingly humble at almost any level.

    CaptRorytypo_tilly
  • marzbarzmarzbarz Member Posts: 187
    No area has ever been so memorable to me than firewine, the passages and where the exit comes out. Oh and the traps/respawns!!! I loved this place and couldn't ever remember anywhere else comparing. Dunno why lol.

    My advice is to bring a solid trap detector/disarmer and a stealthier that can check around corners. I had kivan doing this once if I remember, hed look around the corners while the rogue was behind/in front looking for traps. You can take a break but I found the longer it takes me under in the ruins the more respawns and thus eventually id get killed from lack of healing. Not sure if the respawning thing changed because this was like right when ee came out/part of vanilla. Sleeping is possible but I wouldn't recommend doing it inside, youll be attacked like 95% of the time and by archers so any squishies left open will die instantly lol. But if a must just back your mages into a corner and the warriors out front so you cant be ambushed from behind.

    But toss the tank(s) in front of even the rogue/stealthier guy and that way if something goes wrong hes first up, and your best archer behind him to take town any ranged units behind you cant melee.

    typo_tilly
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