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Elves

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  • LeloLelo Member Posts: 60
    Unless you are using Auto-Roll ~ the fact that Elves require a minimum Charisma allotment (8?), whereas the Half-Elf can minmax with 3 Charisma, may be important. This generally means that in exchange for the THACO bonus and Charm/Sleep immunities that Elves receive [good in BG1] your Half-Elf protagonist will probably have a higher Wisdom score.

    This becomes an important factor later in the BG series because your chances of getting a life-saving benefit from Wish spells are much better.

    Note also that the Half-Elf with 18 Constitution can look forward to the automatic hit point recovery of a 19 Constitution once the appropriate Tome is collected.

    Man, this is all getting really confusing! Half Elf.......Elf......which to go with?

  • Eadwyn_G8keeperEadwyn_G8keeper Member Posts: 541
    edited March 2016
    Forget about the Hit Pt regeneration thing as it kicks in at 20 Constitution rather than 19 and there is an item easily available in BG2 that can do much the same thing.

    There is also the point which is kindof important to me as a visually oriented person. I just like having a bigger body for Charname on the screen so I generally go for Humans. Different Strokes rule!!

    Souave_SaidPhilhelm
  • ElendarElendar Member Posts: 831
    Lelo wrote: »
    Unless you are using Auto-Roll ~ the fact that Elves require a minimum Charisma allotment (8?), whereas the Half-Elf can minmax with 3 Charisma, may be important. This generally means that in exchange for the THACO bonus and Charm/Sleep immunities that Elves receive [good in BG1] your Half-Elf protagonist will probably have a higher Wisdom score.

    This becomes an important factor later in the BG series because your chances of getting a life-saving benefit from Wish spells are much better.

    Note also that the Half-Elf with 18 Constitution can look forward to the automatic hit point recovery of a 19 Constitution once the appropriate Tome is collected.

    Man, this is all getting really confusing! Half Elf.......Elf......which to go with?

    Go with Gnome. Because being able to sell turnips as well as gaining really nice saving throws just can't be beat by anything.

  • Tad_Has_A_Cold_OliveTad_Has_A_Cold_Olive Member Posts: 183
    Lelo wrote: »
    Unless you are using Auto-Roll ~ the fact that Elves require a minimum Charisma allotment (8?), whereas the Half-Elf can minmax with 3 Charisma, may be important. This generally means that in exchange for the THACO bonus and Charm/Sleep immunities that Elves receive [good in BG1] your Half-Elf protagonist will probably have a higher Wisdom score.

    This becomes an important factor later in the BG series because your chances of getting a life-saving benefit from Wish spells are much better.

    Note also that the Half-Elf with 18 Constitution can look forward to the automatic hit point recovery of a 19 Constitution once the appropriate Tome is collected.

    Man, this is all getting really confusing! Half Elf.......Elf......which to go with?

    Basically, elves with their increased THAC0 are more offensive, while half-elves with a higher Constitution cap are more survivable. I'd say overall elves are probably a little stronger, but not so much that you can't do well with a half-elf if that's what you want.

    Interesting thing to note is that half-elves can get to 20 Constitution in Baldur's Gate if you buy a magical buckler called Buckley's Buckler in the Friendly Arm Inn. This magical buckler increases your Constitution by +1, and allows half-elves (and every other non-elf race) who have maxed out their Constitution and used a magic tome that also increases your Constitution to slowly recover their HP without needing healing spells or health potions.

    Eadwyn_G8keeper
  • LeloLelo Member Posts: 60
    I still think I'm going to go with an elf fighter/mage because I really like elves. I think they're cool. Now I just need to figure out what spells and weapons to specialize in.

    Eadwyn_G8keeper
  • Tad_Has_A_Cold_OliveTad_Has_A_Cold_Olive Member Posts: 183
    Lelo wrote: »
    I still think I'm going to go with an elf fighter/mage because I really like elves. I think they're cool. Now I just need to figure out what spells and weapons to specialize in.

    Well, for a starters, I'd recommend going Longswords as your primary melee weapon and either longbows or shortbows as your ranged weapon, since elves get an accuracy bonus with those weapons. There are a lot of nice longswords that show up throughout both Baldur's Gate I & II, which makes them a decent choice. Longbows are good weapons in Baldur's Gate, but there aren't too many great magical Longbows in Baldur's Gate II, whereas some of the best magic bows in Baldur's Gate II are shortbows. You'll probably also want to pick up proficiency in a crushing weapon eventually, because some enemies are only vulnerable to weapons that deal that kind of damage.

    As for spells, go nuts and learn them all! One thing about Mages in D&D is that they can completely change what spells they want to cast after resting, so figure out what spells work for you!

  • LeloLelo Member Posts: 60
    edited March 2016
    Lelo wrote: »
    I still think I'm going to go with an elf fighter/mage because I really like elves. I think they're cool. Now I just need to figure out what spells and weapons to specialize in.

    Well, for a starters, I'd recommend going Longswords as your primary melee weapon and either longbows or shortbows as your ranged weapon, since elves get an accuracy bonus with those weapons. There are a lot of nice longswords that show up throughout both Baldur's Gate I & II, which makes them a decent choice. Longbows are good weapons in Baldur's Gate, but there aren't too many great magical Longbows in Baldur's Gate II, whereas some of the best magic bows in Baldur's Gate II are shortbows. You'll probably also want to pick up proficiency in a crushing weapon eventually, because some enemies are only vulnerable to weapons that deal that kind of damage.

    As for spells, go nuts and learn them all! One thing about Mages in D&D is that they can completely change what spells they want to cast after resting, so figure out what spells work for you!

    Such as what type of crushing weapon?

  • Tad_Has_A_Cold_OliveTad_Has_A_Cold_Olive Member Posts: 183
    There's good war hammers and maces in both Baldur's Gate I & II, and one of the best weapons in the game is a flail that can be found early on in BGII. Quarterstaffs are also good weapons (there are a lot of really good quarterstaffs, about as many different kinds as longswords), but you can't use them with a shield or second weapon since they're two-handed.

    So, really, any crushing weapon that catches your fancy apart from clubs.

  • LeloLelo Member Posts: 60
    There's good war hammers and maces in both Baldur's Gate I & II, and one of the best weapons in the game is a flail that can be found early on in BGII. Quarterstaffs are also good weapons (there are a lot of really good quarterstaffs, about as many different kinds as longswords), but you can't use them with a shield or second weapon since they're two-handed.

    So, really, any crushing weapon that catches your fancy apart from clubs.

    Okay, thanks!

  • LeloLelo Member Posts: 60
    What are good stats for fighter/mage elf vs. half elf?

  • The_CheesemanThe_Cheeseman Member Posts: 175
    First, let me start by saying that, unless you are choosing to solo the game with your character, you really don't need to worry about any of these power concerns. Once you get some familiarity with the spells and tactics in Baldur's Gate, the game really isn't particularly hard. Your character build matters FAR less than your strategy, tactics, and metagame knowledge.

    That being said, I also just love character optimization as its own reward, so I'll try to help. Let's start with the base ability scores and how they are useful.

    --Strength (Str) determines your accuracy (THAC0) with melee weapons, as well as providing a damage bonus with melee weapons, slings, and thrown weapons (such as throwing daggers and axes). It also determines the total weight of equipment you can carry, as well as being required to use certain types of heavy weapons and armor. This score is obviously very important to anybody who does damage with weapons, and it should be noted that the best type of bow, the composite longbow, requires a Str score of 18 to wield (though there are tons of awesome, magical, non-composite bows that make that only relevant early in BG1). Warrior classes (Fighter, Ranger, Paladin, etc.) get an "exceptional strength" score, a random roll of 1d100, that provides extra bonuses above the standard bonuses for 18 strength. One thing to keep in mind is that there are various ways to increase your ability scores by a point or two over the course of the series, and any character that starts with at least 18 strength can use such an item to jump straight to 19 strength, which provides even better bonuses than an exceptional Str score of 18/100. This is particularly notable for thieves and monks, who want high damage for their melee attacks, but are not Warrior classes, and do not qualify for exceptional strength. In general, any character you intend to have as a frontline fighter should have a Str score of 18 or higher. Clerics and mages have spells that can temporarily boost their Str score to 18/50 or higher, so they have a bit more leeway in this respect. Note that half-orcs can start the game with a Strength score of 19. There are a number of items that can set your Str score to a pretty high value, such as the Gauntlets of Ogre Power (sets Str to 18/100 when worn) but this is not ideal, as most of these fill your gauntlets or belt slots, which have much better choices for offensive (like Gauntlets of Weapon Skill) or defensive (belts of bonus AC) benefits.

    --Dexterity (Dex) affects your armor class and your accuracy with ranged weapons, as well as providing bonuses to thieving skills. Note that Dexterity does not provide a damage bonus for ranged weapons, even though thrown weapons do receive a damage bonus from Str. Since AC is extremely important early on, and remains such for the majority of the game, Dex is a vital ability score for anyone who anticipates being attacked (i.e. everybody). It should be noted that a Dex score of 20 provides no additional AC bonus over 19, so an elf's natural +1 to Dex is a bit less important when you consider the +1 Dex available from certain items. However, if your character uses ranged weapons, the extra bonus to ranged accuracy for having 20 Dex can be useful. There is a pair of gauntlets available fairly early in both games that can set your Dex score to 18, so you can choose to use this score as a dump stat if you don't mind sacrificing your gauntlet slot, but this is not ideal, as there are a lot of great gauntlets for a variety of character builds.

    --Constitution (Con) provides a bonus to your HP, as well as a bonus to certain saving throws for the "shorty" races (dwarves, halflings, and gnomes). Note that only Warrior classes earn extra HP from Con scores higher than 16, so this is generally the maximum that non-Warriors tend to go for. However, any character with a Con score of 20 or higher slowly regenerates their HP, allowing them to almost fully heal themselves when resting or traveling between areas (though this regen isn't fast enough to have much use during combat). Dwarves and half-orcs can begin the game with a Con score of 19, meaning that using an item to raise their Con by 1 point allows them to reach auto-regen levels. This is handy if you plan to solo the game as a Warrior character who would otherwise lack healing capability, but isn't particularly significant if you are in a party that includes a divine caster. There is also an easily-acquired buckler in BG1 that grants +1 Con, so any character who begins with 18 Con can take advantage of regen during downtime by equipping it after using the +1 Con item. Finally, bear in mind that Warrior classes only roll their hit dice for the first 9 levels, so any extra HP from Con score stops being applied after level 9, meaning that the difference between 19 Con (+5 HP per HD) and no bonus is only 45 HP--very significant in BG1, but much less of an issue at level 40, when Warriors have 130+ HP.

    --Intelligence (Int) is basically only important for mages and bards, who need it for learning spells. Your chance to successfully learn a spell from a scroll is determined by your Int score, as well as the maximum number of spells of each spell level you are able to learn. Your Int should also determine the maximum spell level of spells you are able to learn, but that was not implemented in the original game, and I haven't really tested it in the Enhanced Editions. In any case, it isn't particularly important, because there are easily-acquired potions that can temporarily boost your Int score, during which time you can learn as many spells as you like, and retain full use of them after your Int returns to normal. Therefore, you could play a mage with an Int of 9 and still do just fine, as long as you collect your scrolls and learn them all at once while under the effects of such a potion. Characters with an Int score less than 9 can't use scrolls or wands, but pretty much any class capable of using such items has a minimum Int score of 9, so that isn't anything to worry about. Notably, an Int score of 19 (which gnomes can begin the game with, and any character can achieve by using a +1 Int item) allows you to learn an unlimited number of spells per level, and grants a 95% chance to learn spells, making it very convenient for a mage who doesn't want to worry about potions. On a related note, specialist wizards actually have a -15% penalty to their chance to learn spells outside of their specialized school, which isn't documented anywhere in the UI, so take that into account when attempting to scribe scrolls. Most people just turn down the game difficulty to minimum temporarily when scribing, as it grants 100% chance to learn spells, and is more convenient than saving/reloading for each one. Note that this score does not affect Sorcerer spellcasting in any way.

    --Wisdom (Wis) provides bonus spell slots for clerics and druids. Most of these are low-level spells slots, but can be very helpful for most of the game, as these levels contain several useful buffs. However, this stat is effectively useless for anybody who isn't a divine spellcaster, except for one specific exception. Very late in the series, mages and sorcerers gain access to the spells Limited Wish and Wish, both extremely powerful, but dangerously unpredictable. The effects of these spells are determined by the caster's Int and Wis scores, and having low scores in either one can have disastrous effects. However, while these spells can be very, very powerful, they are never necessary, and only really matter near the very end of the entire saga.

    --Charisma (Cha) provides a discount on store prices, and can affect the rewards given to the character for quests they complete. For example, in Candlekeep, upon completing one quest, a character with 10 Cha will only get a handful of gold, while a character with 18 Cha will get a +1 Dagger. There are also a smattering of dialogue options that become available at 18+ Cha. For the most part, the effect of Cha is negligible, and this is considered the quintessential dump stat. There is an easily acquired item in BG1 that provides a +2 bonus to Cha (and since the effect on prices caps at 20 Cha, it allows any character who begins with 18 to get the best possible prices) and another item available at the beginning of BG2 that sets Cha to 18. As such, this stat is effectively worthless.

    I hope this helps you when designing your new character, and any future characters you choose to roll!

    thelovebat
  • PhilhelmPhilhelm Member Posts: 473
    edited March 2016
    Lelo wrote: »
    Man, this is all getting really confusing! Half Elf.......Elf......which to go with?


    Three-Fourths Elf?

    Post edited by Philhelm on
  • PhilhelmPhilhelm Member Posts: 473
    Lelo wrote: »
    What are good stats for fighter/mage elf vs. half elf?

    I run with "roleplay" builds, but from a power advantage, you want at least 18 INT (with a permanent +1 INT from one of the tomes you will eventually find, you will have 19 INT and be able to have unlimited spells in your spellbook). You'll also want an 18 DEX for the -4 AC bonus. An 18 CON is best, but you can probably get away with a 16 CON if necessary. 18 STR is also best, but there are so many ways to raise strength that you can probably go lower.

    With an 87 point build (easy enough to roll), you could run with the following:

    18/XX STR* / 19 DEX** / 17*** CON / 18 INT / 7 WIS / 8 CHA

    *18/00 is the best, but it won't matter if you get a tome and 19 STR, so don't worry about it too much.
    **Elf can have 19 DEX / Half-Elf can have 18 DEX
    ***Elf can only have 17 CON / Half-Elf can have 18 CON

    With all BG1 Tomes, you would have:

    19 STR / 20 DEX / 18 CON / 19 INT / 10 WIS* / 9 CHA

    *For some reason, there are three Tomes of Wisdom.

    Of course, you can dump WIS and CHA as far as they go, if you prefer.

  • LeloLelo Member Posts: 60
    First, let me start by saying that, unless you are choosing to solo the game with your character, you really don't need to worry about any of these power concerns. Once you get some familiarity with the spells and tactics in Baldur's Gate, the game really isn't particularly hard. Your character build matters FAR less than your strategy, tactics, and metagame knowledge.

    That being said, I also just love character optimization as its own reward, so I'll try to help. Let's start with the base ability scores and how they are useful.

    --Strength (Str) determines your accuracy (THAC0) with melee weapons, as well as providing a damage bonus with melee weapons, slings, and thrown weapons (such as throwing daggers and axes). It also determines the total weight of equipment you can carry, as well as being required to use certain types of heavy weapons and armor. This score is obviously very important to anybody who does damage with weapons, and it should be noted that the best type of bow, the composite longbow, requires a Str score of 18 to wield (though there are tons of awesome, magical, non-composite bows that make that only relevant early in BG1). Warrior classes (Fighter, Ranger, Paladin, etc.) get an "exceptional strength" score, a random roll of 1d100, that provides extra bonuses above the standard bonuses for 18 strength. One thing to keep in mind is that there are various ways to increase your ability scores by a point or two over the course of the series, and any character that starts with at least 18 strength can use such an item to jump straight to 19 strength, which provides even better bonuses than an exceptional Str score of 18/100. This is particularly notable for thieves and monks, who want high damage for their melee attacks, but are not Warrior classes, and do not qualify for exceptional strength. In general, any character you intend to have as a frontline fighter should have a Str score of 18 or higher. Clerics and mages have spells that can temporarily boost their Str score to 18/50 or higher, so they have a bit more leeway in this respect. Note that half-orcs can start the game with a Strength score of 19. There are a number of items that can set your Str score to a pretty high value, such as the Gauntlets of Ogre Power (sets Str to 18/100 when worn) but this is not ideal, as most of these fill your gauntlets or belt slots, which have much better choices for offensive (like Gauntlets of Weapon Skill) or defensive (belts of bonus AC) benefits.

    --Dexterity (Dex) affects your armor class and your accuracy with ranged weapons, as well as providing bonuses to thieving skills. Note that Dexterity does not provide a damage bonus for ranged weapons, even though thrown weapons do receive a damage bonus from Str. Since AC is extremely important early on, and remains such for the majority of the game, Dex is a vital ability score for anyone who anticipates being attacked (i.e. everybody). It should be noted that a Dex score of 20 provides no additional AC bonus over 19, so an elf's natural +1 to Dex is a bit less important when you consider the +1 Dex available from certain items. However, if your character uses ranged weapons, the extra bonus to ranged accuracy for having 20 Dex can be useful. There is a pair of gauntlets available fairly early in both games that can set your Dex score to 18, so you can choose to use this score as a dump stat if you don't mind sacrificing your gauntlet slot, but this is not ideal, as there are a lot of great gauntlets for a variety of character builds.

    --Constitution (Con) provides a bonus to your HP, as well as a bonus to certain saving throws for the "shorty" races (dwarves, halflings, and gnomes). Note that only Warrior classes earn extra HP from Con scores higher than 16, so this is generally the maximum that non-Warriors tend to go for. However, any character with a Con score of 20 or higher slowly regenerates their HP, allowing them to almost fully heal themselves when resting or traveling between areas (though this regen isn't fast enough to have much use during combat). Dwarves and half-orcs can begin the game with a Con score of 19, meaning that using an item to raise their Con by 1 point allows them to reach auto-regen levels. This is handy if you plan to solo the game as a Warrior character who would otherwise lack healing capability, but isn't particularly significant if you are in a party that includes a divine caster. There is also an easily-acquired buckler in BG1 that grants +1 Con, so any character who begins with 18 Con can take advantage of regen during downtime by equipping it after using the +1 Con item. Finally, bear in mind that Warrior classes only roll their hit dice for the first 9 levels, so any extra HP from Con score stops being applied after level 9, meaning that the difference between 19 Con (+5 HP per HD) and no bonus is only 45 HP--very significant in BG1, but much less of an issue at level 40, when Warriors have 130+ HP.

    --Intelligence (Int) is basically only important for mages and bards, who need it for learning spells. Your chance to successfully learn a spell from a scroll is determined by your Int score, as well as the maximum number of spells of each spell level you are able to learn. Your Int should also determine the maximum spell level of spells you are able to learn, but that was not implemented in the original game, and I haven't really tested it in the Enhanced Editions. In any case, it isn't particularly important, because there are easily-acquired potions that can temporarily boost your Int score, during which time you can learn as many spells as you like, and retain full use of them after your Int returns to normal. Therefore, you could play a mage with an Int of 9 and still do just fine, as long as you collect your scrolls and learn them all at once while under the effects of such a potion. Characters with an Int score less than 9 can't use scrolls or wands, but pretty much any class capable of using such items has a minimum Int score of 9, so that isn't anything to worry about. Notably, an Int score of 19 (which gnomes can begin the game with, and any character can achieve by using a +1 Int item) allows you to learn an unlimited number of spells per level, and grants a 95% chance to learn spells, making it very convenient for a mage who doesn't want to worry about potions. On a related note, specialist wizards actually have a -15% penalty to their chance to learn spells outside of their specialized school, which isn't documented anywhere in the UI, so take that into account when attempting to scribe scrolls. Most people just turn down the game difficulty to minimum temporarily when scribing, as it grants 100% chance to learn spells, and is more convenient than saving/reloading for each one. Note that this score does not affect Sorcerer spellcasting in any way.

    --Wisdom (Wis) provides bonus spell slots for clerics and druids. Most of these are low-level spells slots, but can be very helpful for most of the game, as these levels contain several useful buffs. However, this stat is effectively useless for anybody who isn't a divine spellcaster, except for one specific exception. Very late in the series, mages and sorcerers gain access to the spells Limited Wish and Wish, both extremely powerful, but dangerously unpredictable. The effects of these spells are determined by the caster's Int and Wis scores, and having low scores in either one can have disastrous effects. However, while these spells can be very, very powerful, they are never necessary, and only really matter near the very end of the entire saga.

    --Charisma (Cha) provides a discount on store prices, and can affect the rewards given to the character for quests they complete. For example, in Candlekeep, upon completing one quest, a character with 10 Cha will only get a handful of gold, while a character with 18 Cha will get a +1 Dagger. There are also a smattering of dialogue options that become available at 18+ Cha. For the most part, the effect of Cha is negligible, and this is considered the quintessential dump stat. There is an easily acquired item in BG1 that provides a +2 bonus to Cha (and since the effect on prices caps at 20 Cha, it allows any character who begins with 18 to get the best possible prices) and another item available at the beginning of BG2 that sets Cha to 18. As such, this stat is effectively worthless.

    I hope this helps you when designing your new character, and any future characters you choose to roll!
    First, let me start by saying that, unless you are choosing to solo the game with your character, you really don't need to worry about any of these power concerns. Once you get some familiarity with the spells and tactics in Baldur's Gate, the game really isn't particularly hard. Your character build matters FAR less than your strategy, tactics, and metagame knowledge.

    That being said, I also just love character optimization as its own reward, so I'll try to help. Let's start with the base ability scores and how they are useful.

    --Strength (Str) determines your accuracy (THAC0) with melee weapons, as well as providing a damage bonus with melee weapons, slings, and thrown weapons (such as throwing daggers and axes). It also determines the total weight of equipment you can carry, as well as being required to use certain types of heavy weapons and armor. This score is obviously very important to anybody who does damage with weapons, and it should be noted that the best type of bow, the composite longbow, requires a Str score of 18 to wield (though there are tons of awesome, magical, non-composite bows that make that only relevant early in BG1). Warrior classes (Fighter, Ranger, Paladin, etc.) get an "exceptional strength" score, a random roll of 1d100, that provides extra bonuses above the standard bonuses for 18 strength. One thing to keep in mind is that there are various ways to increase your ability scores by a point or two over the course of the series, and any character that starts with at least 18 strength can use such an item to jump straight to 19 strength, which provides even better bonuses than an exceptional Str score of 18/100. This is particularly notable for thieves and monks, who want high damage for their melee attacks, but are not Warrior classes, and do not qualify for exceptional strength. In general, any character you intend to have as a frontline fighter should have a Str score of 18 or higher. Clerics and mages have spells that can temporarily boost their Str score to 18/50 or higher, so they have a bit more leeway in this respect. Note that half-orcs can start the game with a Strength score of 19. There are a number of items that can set your Str score to a pretty high value, such as the Gauntlets of Ogre Power (sets Str to 18/100 when worn) but this is not ideal, as most of these fill your gauntlets or belt slots, which have much better choices for offensive (like Gauntlets of Weapon Skill) or defensive (belts of bonus AC) benefits.

    --Dexterity (Dex) affects your armor class and your accuracy with ranged weapons, as well as providing bonuses to thieving skills. Note that Dexterity does not provide a damage bonus for ranged weapons, even though thrown weapons do receive a damage bonus from Str. Since AC is extremely important early on, and remains such for the majority of the game, Dex is a vital ability score for anyone who anticipates being attacked (i.e. everybody). It should be noted that a Dex score of 20 provides no additional AC bonus over 19, so an elf's natural +1 to Dex is a bit less important when you consider the +1 Dex available from certain items. However, if your character uses ranged weapons, the extra bonus to ranged accuracy for having 20 Dex can be useful. There is a pair of gauntlets available fairly early in both games that can set your Dex score to 18, so you can choose to use this score as a dump stat if you don't mind sacrificing your gauntlet slot, but this is not ideal, as there are a lot of great gauntlets for a variety of character builds.

    --Constitution (Con) provides a bonus to your HP, as well as a bonus to certain saving throws for the "shorty" races (dwarves, halflings, and gnomes). Note that only Warrior classes earn extra HP from Con scores higher than 16, so this is generally the maximum that non-Warriors tend to go for. However, any character with a Con score of 20 or higher slowly regenerates their HP, allowing them to almost fully heal themselves when resting or traveling between areas (though this regen isn't fast enough to have much use during combat). Dwarves and half-orcs can begin the game with a Con score of 19, meaning that using an item to raise their Con by 1 point allows them to reach auto-regen levels. This is handy if you plan to solo the game as a Warrior character who would otherwise lack healing capability, but isn't particularly significant if you are in a party that includes a divine caster. There is also an easily-acquired buckler in BG1 that grants +1 Con, so any character who begins with 18 Con can take advantage of regen during downtime by equipping it after using the +1 Con item. Finally, bear in mind that Warrior classes only roll their hit dice for the first 9 levels, so any extra HP from Con score stops being applied after level 9, meaning that the difference between 19 Con (+5 HP per HD) and no bonus is only 45 HP--very significant in BG1, but much less of an issue at level 40, when Warriors have 130+ HP.

    --Intelligence (Int) is basically only important for mages and bards, who need it for learning spells. Your chance to successfully learn a spell from a scroll is determined by your Int score, as well as the maximum number of spells of each spell level you are able to learn. Your Int should also determine the maximum spell level of spells you are able to learn, but that was not implemented in the original game, and I haven't really tested it in the Enhanced Editions. In any case, it isn't particularly important, because there are easily-acquired potions that can temporarily boost your Int score, during which time you can learn as many spells as you like, and retain full use of them after your Int returns to normal. Therefore, you could play a mage with an Int of 9 and still do just fine, as long as you collect your scrolls and learn them all at once while under the effects of such a potion. Characters with an Int score less than 9 can't use scrolls or wands, but pretty much any class capable of using such items has a minimum Int score of 9, so that isn't anything to worry about. Notably, an Int score of 19 (which gnomes can begin the game with, and any character can achieve by using a +1 Int item) allows you to learn an unlimited number of spells per level, and grants a 95% chance to learn spells, making it very convenient for a mage who doesn't want to worry about potions. On a related note, specialist wizards actually have a -15% penalty to their chance to learn spells outside of their specialized school, which isn't documented anywhere in the UI, so take that into account when attempting to scribe scrolls. Most people just turn down the game difficulty to minimum temporarily when scribing, as it grants 100% chance to learn spells, and is more convenient than saving/reloading for each one. Note that this score does not affect Sorcerer spellcasting in any way.

    --Wisdom (Wis) provides bonus spell slots for clerics and druids. Most of these are low-level spells slots, but can be very helpful for most of the game, as these levels contain several useful buffs. However, this stat is effectively useless for anybody who isn't a divine spellcaster, except for one specific exception. Very late in the series, mages and sorcerers gain access to the spells Limited Wish and Wish, both extremely powerful, but dangerously unpredictable. The effects of these spells are determined by the caster's Int and Wis scores, and having low scores in either one can have disastrous effects. However, while these spells can be very, very powerful, they are never necessary, and only really matter near the very end of the entire saga.

    --Charisma (Cha) provides a discount on store prices, and can affect the rewards given to the character for quests they complete. For example, in Candlekeep, upon completing one quest, a character with 10 Cha will only get a handful of gold, while a character with 18 Cha will get a +1 Dagger. There are also a smattering of dialogue options that become available at 18+ Cha. For the most part, the effect of Cha is negligible, and this is considered the quintessential dump stat. There is an easily acquired item in BG1 that provides a +2 bonus to Cha (and since the effect on prices caps at 20 Cha, it allows any character who begins with 18 to get the best possible prices) and another item available at the beginning of BG2 that sets Cha to 18. As such, this stat is effectively worthless.

    I hope this helps you when designing your new character, and any future characters you choose to roll!

    It helps a lot. It's just a lot to take in.

  • LeloLelo Member Posts: 60
    Philhelm wrote: »
    Lelo wrote: »
    What are good stats for fighter/mage elf vs. half elf?

    I run with "roleplay" builds, but from a power advantage, you want at least 18 INT (with a permanent +1 INT from one of the tomes you will eventually find, you will have 19 INT and be able to have unlimited spells in your spellbook). You'll also want an 18 DEX for the -4 AC bonus. An 18 CON is best, but you can probably get away with a 16 CON if necessary. 18 STR is also best, but there are so many ways to raise strength that you can probably go lower.

    With an 87 point build (easy enough to roll), you could run with the following:

    18/XX STR* / 19 DEX** / 17*** CON / 18 INT / 7 WIS / 8 CHA

    *18/00 is the best, but it won't matter if you get a tome and 19 STR, so don't worry about it too much.
    **Elf can have 19 DEX / Half-Elf can have 18 DEX
    ***Elf can only have 17 CON / Half-Elf can have 18 CON

    With all BG1 Tomes, you would have:

    19 STR / 20 DEX / 18 CON / 19 INT / 10 WIS* / 9 CHA

    *For some reason, there are three Tomes of Wisdom.

    Of course, you can dump WIS and CHA as far as they go, if you prefer.

    I prefer to role-play. To me it's just more it's just more fun. Power playing takes away from the overall feel of the game. Anyways, thanks for the pointers. It gives more of an idea how to setup my characters stats.

    Philhelm
  • PhilhelmPhilhelm Member Posts: 473
    Lelo wrote: »
    I prefer to role-play. To me it's just more it's just more fun. Power playing takes away from the overall feel of the game. Anyways, thanks for the pointers. It gives more of an idea how to setup my characters stats.

    I agree. When looking at characters, it just seems off to me to see 18/18/18/3/3/3 when compared to the NPCs' more natural stats.

    One thing you could do, which I have seen from another thread before, is that "standard array" stat distribution. The version I saw is an 87 point build (Ajantis is the highest at 88), using the values 17/16/15/14/13/12 (adjusted for race - Elf: +1 DEX, - CON. So an Elven Fighter/Mage could be:

    15 STR, (16)17 DEX, (13)12 CON, 17 INT, 12 WIS, 14 CHA

    With all BG1 tomes, the final stats would be:

    16 STR, 18 DEX, 13 CON, 18 INT, 15 WIS, 15 CHA

    Obviously, the arrangement would be to taste, but the above build would suffice, with the only real weakness being the lack of a CON bonus. STR doesn't matter too much in my opinion, since there will eventually be plenty of options to raise it to obscene levels. If you wanted a bit more power, then I'd do the following (Format = Starting Attribute/Attribute with Tomes):

    STR: 13/14 (No Thac0 bonus, 120 lb. carry weight. He's an Elf, not Arnold Schwarzenegger, but can raise his strength through magical equipment.

    DEX: 19/20 (-4 AC, and -3(?) ranged Thac0. He's an Elf, after all. In BG2, if you take the "good path" you will eventually lose a permanent point of DEX).

    CON: 15/16 (+2 HP. I like this one since the NPCs have a high average CON overall. There seems to be a breakpoint between 15 and 16 CON characters when it comes to fatigue. I don't like my PC yawning before everyone else, otherwise I would be okay losing out on a few HP.)

    INT: 18/19 (With the Tome, your INT will become 19, so you will be able to memorize every spell).

    WIS: 9/12 (With three WIS Tomes, you can dump it a little. There will also be another +1 if you take the good path in BG2).

    CHA: 14/15 (How can an Elven Fighter/Mage not be charismatic? There will be another +1 if you take the good path in BG2).

    It's an 89 point build, which isn't too hard to roll. Obviously, season to taste.

    In BG2, there will also be a dream sequence in which you will lose 1 point to your choice of STR/DEX/CON/INT/WIS (this might be off, since STR or INT might not be an option, but I forget off hand).

    There will be a deck of many things that can add +1 to your prime attribute (INT for a Fighter/Mage).

    There will be the Machine of Lum the Mad that gives you the opportunity to add +1 to all attributes.

  • LeloLelo Member Posts: 60
    Philhelm wrote: »
    Lelo wrote: »
    I prefer to role-play. To me it's just more it's just more fun. Power playing takes away from the overall feel of the game. Anyways, thanks for the pointers. It gives more of an idea how to setup my characters stats.

    I agree. When looking at characters, it just seems off to me to see 18/18/18/3/3/3 when compared to the NPCs' more natural stats.

    One thing you could do, which I have seen from another thread before, is that "standard array" stat distribution. The version I saw is an 87 point build (Ajantis is the highest at 88), using the values 17/16/15/14/13/12 (adjusted for race - Elf: +1 DEX, - CON. So an Elven Fighter/Mage could be:

    15 STR, (16)17 DEX, (13)12 CON, 17 INT, 12 WIS, 14 CHA

    With all BG1 tomes, the final stats would be:

    16 STR, 18 DEX, 13 CON, 18 INT, 15 WIS, 15 CHA

    Obviously, the arrangement would be to taste, but the above build would suffice, with the only real weakness being the lack of a CON bonus. STR doesn't matter too much in my opinion, since there will eventually be plenty of options to raise it to obscene levels. If you wanted a bit more power, then I'd do the following (Format = Starting Attribute/Attribute with Tomes):

    STR: 13/14 (No Thac0 bonus, 120 lb. carry weight. He's an Elf, not Arnold Schwarzenegger, but can raise his strength through magical equipment.

    DEX: 19/20 (-4 AC, and -3(?) ranged Thac0. He's an Elf, after all. In BG2, if you take the "good path" you will eventually lose a permanent point of DEX).

    CON: 15/16 (+2 HP. I like this one since the NPCs have a high average CON overall. There seems to be a breakpoint between 15 and 16 CON characters when it comes to fatigue. I don't like my PC yawning before everyone else, otherwise I would be okay losing out on a few HP.)

    INT: 18/19 (With the Tome, your INT will become 19, so you will be able to memorize every spell).

    WIS: 9/12 (With three WIS Tomes, you can dump it a little. There will also be another +1 if you take the good path in BG2).

    CHA: 14/15 (How can an Elven Fighter/Mage not be charismatic? There will be another +1 if you take the good path in BG2).

    It's an 89 point build, which isn't too hard to roll. Obviously, season to taste.

    In BG2, there will also be a dream sequence in which you will lose 1 point to your choice of STR/DEX/CON/INT/WIS (this might be off, since STR or INT might not be an option, but I forget off hand).

    There will be a deck of many things that can add +1 to your prime attribute (INT for a Fighter/Mage).

    There will be the Machine of Lum the Mad that gives you the opportunity to add +1 to all attributes.

    Thanks, again. Mainly I'm just looking to make him so he can both be great fighter and mage. Not to turn him into something beyond what he should be. Now my final decision whether to make him a pure elf or half elf. Decisions. Decisions. LOL

  • Eadwyn_G8keeperEadwyn_G8keeper Member Posts: 541
    edited April 2016
    Your Kid-sister Imoen is an 87pt character. You are Baalspawn. A 90pt character is not at all a stretch IMHO. Wisdom or Charisma over 10pts for a Fighter/Mage provides almost zero return as Party Reputation is the more important factor than Charisma for getting Store Discounts. In this respect much depends on whether you will have Imoen, Jaheira, Safana, Xan, Garrick or Ajantis in your party. All of them have 15+ Charisma stats and can be temporarily posted as Party Leader if needful at any point where interaction {Talk} with an NPC or shopkeeper is an issue.

    If playing Solo or without any of the above I would hope to have at least Charisma 13+. This plus "Friends" spell should serve well enough. Note: Viconia has 14 Charisma.

    That being said a decent plan would be to check out any 88pt roll or better to see what happens when you adjust Stats for an 18 Str +1THACO+2Dmg. If you get 18/51+ you will receive +2THACO+3Dmg, The extra damage is super important if you are in Melee but of little importance for a Protagonist in a Party of 4 or more that can take a protected position for Casting Spells and Ranged Attacks. For example: Longswords deal 1d8 dmge. Without going into details, an iconic Longsword for BGEE [available in Chap. 2] gives 1d8dmg +2 on a successful hit for an average Damage of 6.5HP +1 Special Cold Damage. 7.5Total.

    With 18/51 Strength that becomes a 10.5 total per successful Hit!!! Big difference. Don't give up the potential to be a Melee Force lightly as the Fighter/Mage class has great potential in that line because of Self-Buffing spells such as Blur. In BG2 it rocks the House!!!

    So, with an 89 pt. roll [which I would consider minimum for a less experienced player] and 18/51+ Strength with a distaste for MinMax dumpstats in Wisdom and Charisma, then, by all means go for the Elf since the main advantage of the Half-Elf [imho] is the Dumpstat Charisma option.

    89pt Elf FM assuming some party support~
    Strength~~~~~~~~~18/51+ [250lb allowance]
    Dexterity~~~~~~~~~18
    Constitution~~~~~~16
    Intelligence~~~~~~~18
    Wisdom~~~~~~~~~~8
    Charisma~~~~~~~~~11

    Note: there are a number of places in BG1 where being able to carry 200+ lbs is an asset for boosting the Treasury. An important concern in the early game when you see the cost of some very good items that you will want to purchase before entering Baldur's Gate itself.

    Weapon choice depends so much on your party plans. Longbow and Longsword are good places to start for the Elf bonus THACO plus either War Hammer or Mace. I would advise no more than a single pip "Proficiency" in Longbow as there are so many other Weapon Skills to build for the later game.

    Note: I would rather play an 87pt roll with 18/91+ THACO+2Dmge+5!! but I totally agree with that being improbable for authentic RP play with an ELF protag. I myself was very much into RP thinking in my early BG runs and still occupies much thought, however, not having a DM involved as in the PnP world makes a very big difference.... ENJOY!!!

    And ditto the point from @The_Cheeseman about maximizing your Character being mostly unnecessary with a party of 4 plus members. I personally enjoy the feel and potentials of a 5 member party but for some reason find managing a full 6 person party quite bothersome!! ~~Cheers

    Post edited by Eadwyn_G8keeper on
    The_Cheeseman
  • marzbarzmarzbarz Member Posts: 187
    edited April 2016
    Last night I got a 95 for cleric/ranger half-elf. Debated keeping it lol. That was godlike and so many dump points leftover rofl. I think int/cha were lowest and everything else was 18 or close. ( by lowest I mean like 12-14 )

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