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I thought the whole writing thing was exaggerated but this dialog...

I thought everything was being blown out of proportion in reviews and here on the forums, but then my Half-Orc main character had a strange conversation...

imgur.com/WH7BUCr

I'm starting to regret having purchased the collector's edition, thinking I was supporting a great team trying to revive a classic. I appreciate all that Beamdog has done updating this series, but how can this be considered acceptable writing? I'm not looking forward to seeing more of this as I progress.

JoeyWillyML4Google_CalasadeenneractatakdogMokonaCrevsDaak
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Comments

  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,136
    i see nothing wrong either. the half orc mc is just pointing out the common way half orcs are treated in dnd

    SmaugButtercheeseCrevsDaakGrimo88
  • VyrulisseVyrulisse Member Posts: 108
    Vallmyr said:

    Reminds me of the opening of NWN2 if you play a Drow one of the doucher farmers talks about how people curse your name as you pass by and you'll never be accepted due to being a Drow. The dialogue is pretty cool. I enjoy this sort of interaction.

    Agreed. I think that's a cool thing when people notice your race/class and you have special choices in conversation because of it.

    Buttercheese
  • MessiMessi Member Posts: 738
    Could you tell us what is wrong with that dialogue OP since it seems no-one else but you sees the fault. I didn't play half-orc so my dialogue regarding the irregulars was different, but I thought it was great that game recognizes your race with that quest.

    MoradinButtercheese
  • SirBatinceSirBatince Member Posts: 792
    edited April 2016
    I believe OP might be refering that this particular line un-roleplays and undermines everything he might have set in line in exactly 2 words, "different kind". Nothing applies to this half-orc because he's different just like that. Even the quotes and all.

    That's my theory. I'm probably wrong though.

  • TrudeauIsSantaTrudeauIsSanta Member Posts: 161
    What the heck? Did you not play BG2? Racism and prejudice and conversations like this were everywhere. People are forcing an agenda on this to get angry about something that is just typical Forgotten Realms writing.

    Buttercheese
  • SouthpawSouthpaw Member Posts: 2,026
    ...my half-orc Dark Moon Monk punches humies like this in their faces. That's how half-orcs deal with prejudice. (Seconded by my half-orc Thief, half-orc Barbarian and future half-orc Shaman)

    booinyoureyesButtercheeseCrevsDaak
  • DeisDeis Member Posts: 24
    I'm failing to see any issue here.

    As others have noted, this type of dialogue is standard to the setting. A Lieutenant is attempting to take advantage of existing prejudice (or is prejudiced themselves) in order to drive an existing group away. Basically a classic choice between following a moral code (if your character has one), or following a less scrupulous route. The only difference seems to be that there is a check whether the PC is a half-orc and, if they are, their indignation when choosing the path with scruples references that.

    Vyrulisse
  • BeowulfBeowulf Member Posts: 236
    I hate half-orcs myself too.

    On the other hand you miss his point. His point is he was looking to play an escape from the real world social issues that are so hurtful and sad in our real world society. He and I did not want to buy a game about a Fantasy Non-real-worldof-DnD and then suddenly find ourselves in a left wing social justice classroom. I do not know who or what Beam dog was thinking when they created these dialogues

    Going along this agenda we have militant aggressive women too - instead of the coy thief Marilyn Monroe of BG 1 Saphina has turned into a mean spirited threatening woman of Super Feminist who takes a prickly stance against dirty Bealoths advances. Further you have the new female Corwinn archer who is Sharteel X 10 and rebuffs my male character when he says stupid remarks to her. I want cheerful happy girls ala 1980 Conan the Barbarian like Imoen in BG1 when she was a happy girl. There really are no ladies like this in the SOE game they are all empowered Type-A-Girl-Power fighters- Whoooa Wymyn let's go do a march girlz!

    I would guess you are all under 30 or on the left side so this sort of chat is unobtrusive and agreeable to you. I for one support total and as close as society can get to anarchy as possible with still maintaining a government to enforce property rights and unite the country to destroy invaders. That also means I feel all men and women should be free to love, as they like - even if I find their choice of a spouse personally strange. It also means I think men and women and all races should be free and equal. But, it does not mean I want to give any one group more or less power or privilege.

    Beamdog really just went out of their way to be social justice warriors in this game. I would be mad if they had some priest quote the bible- which I like - too. Social justice (or bible quotes for that matter- not worried they would ever put those in though) preaching has NO PLACE IN DnD. Next expansion please keep the real world modern concerns and agendas OUT of the DnD game. If I want to hear some guy blast the left I can hear Alex Jones rant on and on. If I want to hear about how genders or non-traditional relationship people are oppressed I can watch a furry emo kid talk about how he is bullied at school for wearing dog ears on youtube too- but as a rule I do avoid those both.

    I do not want to buy a product about DnD and then get my role play thespian moments wrecked with inane modern sentiment dialogues about racism, feminism, or transgender issues!

    Please watch this and then feel better do some snaps - not clap hands it could trigger feelings- and have a time out if the violence in DnD fights makes you feel sad inside. Then go do a social justice march on some out of reality Ivy L Skool. But, don't put it in my a DnD game just to teach me your world view.

    PelmaleonWillyML4QuartzCrevsDaak
  • Baeloth_JnrBaeloth_Jnr Member Posts: 86
    LO says: “well, they’re half-orcs - vicious uncivilized beasts” etc.

    To which CHARNAME response 1 is: “Because I’m a “different” kind of half-orc…”

    So, CHARNAME is a '“different” kind of half-orc' the implication is that other half-orcs are indeed (generally) "vicious uncivilized beasts” etc i.e. supporting the comment of LO and making the claim that LO is "prejudiced" unfounded (CHARNAME appears to share it).

    (On the other hand, half-orcs are not known for their intelligence.)

    WillyML4
  • GrimLefourbeGrimLefourbe Member Posts: 635
    edited April 2016
    Edit : Actually I was wrong, my bad.

  • OsigoldOsigold Member Posts: 117
    There are numerous things wrong with this dialogue.

    Why is the character under the impression that everyone is so prejudiced against half-orcs that they won't be able to think straight when the game has already established that half-orcs aren't as commonly discriminated against in the Sword Coast region?

    Why does the character propose to use racial prejudice as an element of his plan when he's talking to a protagonist of the same race?

    Why are the response choices Righteous Indignation, Bloodthirsty Psychopath, or Righteous Indignation? Do we really need two different ways to be righteously indignant? Why is being righteously indignant mandated for any character who doesn't want to come across as a monster? Why can't you offer to investigate the group to assuage the officer's fears that they may be spies or criminals? What about a mercenary choice for characters that are motivated more by money or operational security?

    If you take all three things together it adds up to blatant identity politics: There must be racism everywhere, it has to be portrayed as universal or overpowering, you have to have more choice in how you show off your virtue by being outraged than options for actually resolving the situation, you either think like the encounter designer or you're scum, and it's so "important" to create this little sequence that they'll customise the dialogue for player race to allow you to be even more righteously indignant, but not customise the encounter to check it for logic when the player race renders the basic strategy nonsensical.

    PelmaleonYann1989helmo1977Quartz
  • Baeloth_JnrBaeloth_Jnr Member Posts: 86
    "No...the quotes create a sarcastic tone to the conversation,"

    I'm afraid that impression wasn't really conveyed to me and the first line "Because I'm a different kind of half-orc" really seems like a non-sequitur (perhaps it is supposed to end with a question mark rather than a period?).

  • IllydthIllydth Member, Developer Posts: 1,641
    @Baeloth_Jnr Yes, actually. You are 100% Correct. The "." at the end of the first sentence is absolutely intended to be read as a "?"

    I'll file that with the Translation team.

    CrevsDaak
  • Diogenes42Diogenes42 Member Posts: 597
    The real problem with that conversation is that they aren't elves so there is no reason to kill them.

  • IllydthIllydth Member, Developer Posts: 1,641
    edited April 2016

    The real problem with that conversation is that they aren't elves gnomes so there is no reason to kill them.

    Fixed that for you. :)

    CrevsDaakAnduin
  • Diogenes42Diogenes42 Member Posts: 597
    edited April 2016
    I agree but Glint and Jan get a pass. Grobnar get killed extra.

  • TorinTorin Member Posts: 229
    Zoimos said:

    What is wrong with it?

    It is written using modern talk. That is only fault I seen. You not supposed to use out of place words in a fantasy game set in medieval world. At least not in serious conversations.

  • ZansoZanso Member Posts: 135
    edited April 2016
    The difficult thing about sarcasm in a text is that it is very hard to convey to the reader. I lost count how many times I have been misunderstood when being sarcastic :smiley:

  • Diogenes42Diogenes42 Member Posts: 597
    Torin said:

    Zoimos said:

    What is wrong with it?

    It is written using modern talk. That is only fault I seen. You not supposed to use out of place words in a fantasy game set in medieval world. At least not in serious conversations.
    Nobody in the series really uses "medieval speech" except Dynaheir and she comes across as a total weirdo for being like that. Everyone else just uses normal modern speech.

  • JoeyJoey Member Posts: 201
    Zoimos said:

    What is wrong with it?

    He's using the syntax and mannerisms of an internet social justice warrior, that's what. If he used the mannerisms and syntax of a half-orc brute, no one would bat an eye-lid.

  • TorinTorin Member Posts: 229

    Torin said:

    Zoimos said:

    What is wrong with it?

    It is written using modern talk. That is only fault I seen. You not supposed to use out of place words in a fantasy game set in medieval world. At least not in serious conversations.
    Nobody in the series really uses "medieval speech" except Dynaheir and she comes across as a total weirdo for being like that. Everyone else just uses normal modern speech.
    Kind of yes, but it often does not stand out. This sentence did.
    It would be strange if a human said it, it is even stranger if a half orc talks like that.

  • Diogenes42Diogenes42 Member Posts: 597
    Half Orcs are not mentally deficient.

    Buttercheese
  • Diogenes42Diogenes42 Member Posts: 597
    If you bring up their Intelligence malus on character creation I will slap you.

    Buttercheese
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