GG will hurt Beamdog as much they hurt Kotaku - many of them aren't even sincere in their beliefs, and they have pretty much zero influence in the gaming industry, other than writing up angry emails and track down the personal details of game devs.
And if they want to boycott Beamdog, let them. Gaming shouldn't be held back by bigots, and reasonable people shouldn't want to do business with them anyway.
If a topic has the potential to create backlash or some sort of disburance then it is best left alone. She had to have known this would create a ripple in the community and that to me is poor judgement. Also at the end of the day, no matter which side of the fence you sit on the company needs to make money and choosing to include controversial topics can alienate a large section of your fanbase which can then severely cripple your profits for the next game.
I don't think this is going to have an effect on any future BG content because as most have said the content is undeniably of a very high calibur. Wizards wouldnbe crazy not to see that.
There's been poorly written characters and dialogs in many games. I'm een pretty sure there are badly written cis-male charaters in SoD but strangely , the only ones who start that sort of shitstorms are trans and/or female. Some people need to get over themselves and stop thinking that their paradigm is some kind of norm or sacred sanctuary threatened by everything that doesn't pander to them.
If a topic has the potential to create backlash or some sort of disburance then it is best left alone. She had to have known this would create a ripple in the community and that to me is poor judgement. Also at the end of the day, no matter which side of the fence you sit on the company needs to make money and choosing to include controversial topics can alienate a large section of your fanbase which can then severely cripple your profits for the next game.
Yeah, I mean look what happened to Mass Effect. They included lesbian aliens and the game tanked and the franchise died.
The fact that this might kill the series is saddening, but there is also the fact it might not. Its got bugs. But the nice thing about Baldur's Gate 2 is that its got a legacy of some of the most active and effective mod writers and bugfix patch makers. All those people who worked on bugfixes and mods for later games like Skyrim, Fallout, and whatnot, a lot of them got their start modding BG2 and making crazy good mods.
That isn't to say Beamdog themselves won't fix the biggest issues involved. Clearly some issue with the map is there, that I've heard. I am avoiding even updating my game because I don't want to break mods in my run, so I'm just playing without letting any Siege of Dragonspear added stuff even affect me.
As for the trans char... from what I've read, the reveal isn't forced or sudden. Its a thing you only find out if you investigate into this person's existence. They don't just blatantly confront you about it. The Charname asks and then the character just explains.
But really, in a world where Polymorph spells and Permanency were available, is there really a problem? Acceptance, yes. Especially in a barbarian culture like a cleric of tempus would come from. I have no idea or full information on the char, but the fact that it is a Cleric of Tempus leads me to assume from the Dales and everything and everyone knows how grim and dark the cultures are up there.
But, if someone wants to be another sex in the Forgotten Realms, they can just pay a wizard thousands of gold or learn magic themselves. And considering how effortless it is to make a deal with an extraplanar creature of ANY alignment, even the good ones who would probably be more then willing to hear such a simple plea and agree to it in exchange for years of service to the holy works, and how they can easily make things like that happen with magic...
Let alone the very existence of the girdle of gender reversal. That alone...
Yeah, the challenges are there, but look at Edwin. He eventually, according to the ending, becomes Edwina after he loses a battle with Elminster for the second time and lives that way to the end of his days. Even he was struggling with the whole different changes that polymorphy puts on you when you transform into another sex, especially flirting with men or being flirted at by men. And how uncomfortable and enraged it made him.
Did that make people uncomfortable? No.
Minsc's thing was, unfortunately, a mishandling of a beloved character. Even if the quote makes an entirely accurate statement in something Minsc would say because he is like that, 'Its all about ethics in heroic adventuring!' would be said not with snarky sarcasm, but actual fierce fervor. I could appreciate it for that. But getting the entirety of a stupid and silly back and forth that NO ONE understood from the outside. I came upon the GamerGate thing late and I still have no freaking idea what the entire situation was about as no real explanation of what actually caused it was ever clearly evident. It was just crazy on all sides.
Poking that hive with a stick was funny, but it also got the wasps angry. And no one needs more of that kind of provoked internet stupidity in a game we want to succeed because my god, I love this franchise.
Safana sounds just like she should sound. Because she didn't have any characterization to really make her that much of a deep character, and hey, expanding it further and her doing what she does in the game seems fine by me.
Khalid and Jaheira sound like they're even more a loving couple. Makes the tragedy of what follows all the more striking. I approve. Jaheira was always one of my favorite female characters of that series. Hardnosed, strong willed, and powerful in personality.
My only problem is that writer should have not tried to provoke such a response and just let her writing stand for herself. She did the interview and just actually tried to provoke a crapstorm. She got it. By doing so, she actively hurt the sales and prospects of the game we love. Thats the only criticism I can offer. You can be and believe whatever you want, but really, don't hurt other people by pushing forward your own beliefs.
That is what Religions do.
I just hope she got thoroughly chastised, not for her quality of writing, but intentionally provoking the internet drama. Because that is good for no one.
If I don't like her quality of writing, I know how to mod the game to change everything she has written and make it better anyway. That is one of the simple joys of this series. Don't like something in the original game? Mod it away. I'll judge first by playing through the game though, not all this controversial garbage.
So yeah, going to buy this game when I have the money to. So... meh. I'll still buy BG3 if its ever made. I just hope it will be.
Just hope one person's quest to make herself feel important hasn't ruined things for many of us. Its not about agreeing or disagreeing with the politics. Its about someone's arrogant push to make themselves feel important. If that interview didn't happen, the revelation of all these facts wouldn't be nearly as dramatic.
I'm actually disgusted by the people in my he community who are intentionally trolling by review bombing trying to sabotage everyone's chances of having a Baldurs gate 3.
While I agree that both trolling and "bombing" of any kind is absolutely unacceptable, I also do believe that there are some glaring problems that are both real and disconnected from any larger "agenda" (despite what some rabble-rousers might like you to believe) and that those problems are deserving of a consumer response - a SENSIBLE, RESPECTFUL, and COLLECTED response.
Personally I would rather not see a BG3 made than see it made badly, and I am sure many fans of the series would agree. Beamdog has proven that they can do many things right, but unfortunately they have also demonstrated that they can get many things wrong. As a responsible consumer I can only respond to what I am offered, and that no longer satisfies me in its current state. Any aspirations towards a continuation of the series are unlikely to find my personal endorsement; that may not mean much, but it's the only thing I can realistically do.
I urge everyone to calmly consider their own personal position on the matter, and to draw their own conclusions based on the evidence at their disposal, and their own personal inclinations. Then vote with your wallet, not with torches and pitchforks. This is the 21st century, not the 13th.
personal position: i don't like very much the criticized bits of dialogue either it but it's so...effing...minor. it comes down to just a few lines. i would never in my dreams consider boycotting a game because of a microscopic issue such as that. that's how i know that when people talk about not buying this or a future game i know they're coming from a gamer-politics angle, and not a from an "honest consumer" angle.
personal position: i don't like very much the criticized bits of dialogue either it but it's so...effing...minor. it comes down to just a few lines. i would never in my dreams consider boycotting a game because of a microscopic issue such as that. that's how i know that when people talk about not buying this or a future game i know they're coming from a gamer-politics angle, and not a from an "honest consumer" angle.
While that is certainly a very valid point, do keep in mind that there is a LOT more wrong than a few lines of text on touchy subjects - and that the majority of people don't criticize the product for those lines, but for everything else that's wrong. It's just that those particular few lines you mentioned also evoked a response with a VERY vocal minority, which naturally smelled of controversy and was blown out of proportion at all ends accordingly.
But the majority of people are not offended because of that one character. They are offended because of what they believe is sub-par writing, not only regarding that character, but in many other places as well. This isn't a new issue, either. The writing of the older new characters from BG1/2 EE has similarly been criticized; Hexxat especially, she has an entire thread dedicated to the problems people have with her writing - not because she's non-white or non-male or non-alive, but because she is written poorly, for a whole bunch of other reasons.
Now, of course a creative work is always subject to criticism that is far from objective. You can't look at writing and say "this is unequivocally and objectively not well-done" (outside of grammar and spelling, anyway, and often not even there). It's always a matter of taste, and of preference, and of understanding. HOWEVER, you also cannot deny the readers' response, either. Those responses are just as subjective, and when many people don't like someone's writing, that may not make that writing "bad" in a formal sense, but it can make it unpopular - and that is usually what people mean when they say "the writing is poor", that many people find that it could have been done better if it were done differently.
All that aside, there are definitely also some actually OBJECTIVE issues with the recent releases. Those are the ones that make up about 80% of why I personally am very upset. In my case, I'm talking primarily about the fact that one of the major features, Legacy of Bhaal, is simply not working (discounting workarounds like "start a new game every time you want to load", which while technically working does not REALLY make it work). That was already bad, but it was compounded by a shocking lack of communication as well. We found out about the issue on our own, developed workarounds on our own, went digging in databases to even find out whether it was known to the developers, etc. Not a peep on the official side, not a word of recognition, acknowledgement, or - gods forbid - even apology. Neither do we know how quickly this game-crippling, borderline A-levek defect is going to be fixed. No one expects miracles, but being quietly ignored speaks volumes in and of itself. As a consumer, particularly one that has been extremely hyped by and very much looking forward to the new feature, that is the PR equivalent of a slap in the face.
I don't think that it's unreasonable for consumers to give a proper response to how they are treated, and to what they are served. In fact, I'd say it's REQUIRED of responsible consumers to communicate their dissatisfaction with issues like this - but it is just as much required that it be done sensibly and properly. Not through review-bombing, not by tweeting how you wish everyone involved got eaten by rabid hamsters (space or otherwise) and certainly not by making threats and throwing expletives at the people involved. That has the exact opposite effect, and only makes a bad situation even worse. Business is all about communication - you as a company try to deliver a product you hope you will sell, we as consumers try to get you to make it in a way so we like buying it. This isn't an easy goal to arrive at, and already there's lots of noise to fight through in trying to get the point across - from both sides. Fogging up that process with mindless, even violent screaming is not helping anyone. But that being said, resignation and acceptance is also not an appropriate response. You have to communicate clearly, and sometimes that involves saying No. Not buying something is in a way the ultima ratio at a consumer's disposal, but ideally it should be accompanied by an explanation. Tell them WHY you are not buying something! Now, I realize that this, too, can spiral out of control and end up in a "hostage crisis" where you want to exchange money for exactly what you want, when you want it - that's part of the dance. You swing to one side and then the other, and hopefully you find somewhere in the middle where balance is possible. But you can't stop swinging.
It saddens me to see that what is a real problem has been clogged up, clouded, and drowned in completely irresponsible, immature, and borderline psychotic rage - from all the wrong people, and for all the wrong reasons. I can only hope that we manage to somehow scrape off that thick coat of toxic mud, and arrive at the core of the issue; some very real concerns that should be addressed, and that have nothing to do with the "SJW war" that is raging on the surface, fueled primarily by some hateful bigots who can't seem to realize what century it is. Their voices are not the majority, and despite their volume and inflammatory words should not drown out those of us who only want the games we love to be the best they can be.
"Normal" means the range where the majority of people exist.
Always catering or trying to include the minority who fall outside those parameters is going to upset/annoy the majority who fall within them.
Sum total, more people not being happy.
We are seeing that more and more in "real life" where although there is far more advertised "tolerance", on a day to day basis, intolerance and unhappiness is on the rise.
It is going to end in tears.
This is not a moral stance, it's recognising that the vast majority can't be arsed with any of it (because it doesn't affect them and they don't care) and are being constantly irritated by demands that they must be better people than they are.
In pragmatic terms, keep the majority happy because that is when tolerance truly thrives.
I'm not sure if you were being serious with this but I hope not. People will generally react negatively to something new but it's only through exposing people to that newness that we get over that. Just think about how people would've reacted in the 90s to a major game having a gay love interest. It would be unheard of. But society moved forward and the mainstream saw that "hey, gays aren't these strange entities - they're people very much like us." No one cried foul when Dorn was revealed as a love interest for men in this game but they're willing to cry over a trans person. This shows how much closer homosexuality is to acceptance than the trans* movement is.
So yes, people will be irritated at first by the "political correctness" being forced upon them but they'll adapt. I think people are generally becoming more progressive but there is a vocal minority who are not. There are gay-straight alliances and open discussions about how to reduce bullying towards minorities (both sexual and ethnic minorities) and more people are protesting against systemic discrimination.
Tolerance doesn't thrive on acting like a group doesn't exist and keeping them out of view where we can always see them as weird and other.
@Empyrial "No one cried foul when Dorn was revealed as a love interest for men in this game but they're willing to cry over a trans person." Erm, yes, they very much did.
No one cried foul when Dorn was revealed as a love interest for men in this game
Bull. There were posters complaining that he was going to probably rape their character, that he couldn't be a bottom with 19 STR, that he was going to prance around and grab all the guys' butts, that he'd have a lisp, and every other goddamn stereotype their ugly little minds could whip up. Try again.
Ok, I meant that "gay romances get less flak now than before." I guess I wasn't on this forum early enough to catch the worst of the Dorn hate. I remember a lot of people complaining that both gay romances fell with evil aligned people or that the romances were two dimensional, not that a gay romance would sink this game and the franchise. I was trying to communicate that gay romances aren't so much of an issue any more, even if the characters we have to choose from may be problematic.
@shawne Thank you for the link. I didn't read it all (I should actually be doing something productive now) but I read the first page. I'm sure it devolves over the next 5 pages, but I liked that the majority of posters were supportive of gay romances and the first major argument was whether there should be any romances at all.
@shawne Thank you for the link. I didn't read it all (I should actually be doing something productive now) but I read the first page. I'm sure it devolves over the next 5 pages, but I liked that the majority of posters were supportive of gay romances and the first major argument was whether there should be any romances at all.
Spoiler: That positivity didn't last very long. And it happened again a year later with Hexxat. And now it's happening with Mizhena, who isn't even a romance option. Same arguments, same cries of "Politics! Agenda!"
I think Hexxat is a nice parallel, because she has a lot of issues with her writing as well, none of which have to do with any of her non-white non-male non-alive attributes.
And unless you can quote a piece of prose from it that you feel is lackluster, I'm inclined to think you are just spouting boilerplate rhetoric without actual knowledge of the writing of the game.
Beamdog should have just stayed out of the culture war.
Instead they picked a side and fired shots.
This.
The original games managed to be hugely popular without stirring a whole sh!tstorm of controversy - why was it so hard for Beamdog to do the same? (particularly since they were only making a transitional expansion and not a standalone sequel).
even if we did get baldurs gate 3 it's gonna be a 5th ed game and a new story that only has small ties to the orginal. think nwn2.
Just wanted to comment on this aspect. I don't understand why such a shitstorm is being made over the writing (good or bad) of one minor NPC and a few other dialogue lines.
I for one hope BG3 gets made. But good lord, do not make it some level 30+ continuation from ToB. First off, it's just completely alienating for any possible new gamers. Second, the DnD rulesets just aren't built for that. Even with an equipment reset, you'd be starting off fighting some of the most complex monster or armies in the game lore. Maybe it's just me, but playing thru ToB often devolves into a tedious slog. The final battle is worth it, but progressing through the combats in that game just isn't as fun as it is in BG2 and even BG1.
Ideally, I'd vote to keep a modified 2edition+ ruleset a la BG2, but I know that's probably a pipe dream with what WotC would demand.
So a character mentions theyre trans, and explains which pronoun/gender they identify with and with confidence and people lose their minds? ( inc joker meme ) but seriously from reading the dialogue she seems to not be afraid/worried about it at all, and neither does charname. Either because she trusts the charname or because it really shouldn't/doesn't matter in the game world. The character seems to explain it clearly so your not having to work around it with different pronouns etc. Grow up people. The way I take it is this: shes very confident and loves herself, maybe due to lack of hate in the forgotten realms or because shes just got a strong personality.
Anyone afraid to see something like this needs to go away because its becoming more accepted by people who have open minds and are not complete ignorant tools. This is the future and acceptance is happening whether the bigots complain or not. BGnext wont be hindered because of some insecure people or bigots who cant handle something this small. One of my friends recently came out as trans/identifies as a woman now and it didn't change anything other than make me more proud to call them my friend because of their courage in the face of so much negativity. If anything the same thing happens when I read the text for the character, she seems confident and that's a good thing.
Seems to me like a bunch of trolls trying to bash the game by using this as their go to reason while also tacking in a ton of other complaints either after or before. I personally see no problem with the conversation with her but maybe its just because im not as close minded as most it seems.
Its weird some people can toss the belt of gender on someone and not complain/feel threatened then but when they actually throw in a few lines of dialogue from a seemingly courageous/openly trans character its all over....I think im missing the point or I don't see it, but people need to grow the hell up.
Like I said delivery seems okay as this is forgotten realms world and she seems to be pretty damn confident/not worried for whatever reason. Also the charnames responses don't seem to care/matter. Obvs the writing could have been better, that can be said for anything IMO, but seriously shes a minor character, if she was an npc to recruit then sure more would be needed/added to make her more interesting. She seems pretty bad *** and confident to me.....
Im probably not seeing how this is a problem, so maybe explain how the writing/presentation of this minor character is bad? ( not trolling or a joke, I literally don't get it...) Yes in terms of quality any of the conversations had can be better written/presented but I just don't get why hers sticks out so bad other than because its not something most people see/deal with and they don't accept it.
Also, "I'm going to spout off all kinds of personal information to this heavily armed stranger I just met" is a pretty common trope in CRPG's.
Exactly. And
1. as @joluv noted in another thread it is noteworthy that most of the concerned critics of the trans character can't describe the interaction correctly. No, she does not just walk up and say "I'm trans" She's trans and she doesn't expect you to be shocked by that.
2. Sorry to inject reality into a good echo-chamber rage-fest but I have met a *number* of trans people who have given public talks that started with statements like "Let me situate myself. I'm a trans man and . . ." In fact all but one of the trans people I know identified themselves within the first few minutes.
And check out dating sites -- it not at all uncommon for trans people to wear their status on their sleeves. As in "I'm trans! Still reading? Good . . . "
It's not bad writing it's what the anti crowd settled on when all of their other arguments failed. Sure you can make some sort of snob appeal but for (&#@ sake this is dungeons and dragons and should be judged accordingly.
personal position: i don't like very much the criticized bits of dialogue either it but it's so...effing...minor. it comes down to just a few lines. i would never in my dreams consider boycotting a game because of a microscopic issue such as that.
I couldn't have described my own personal position better myself.
Comments
Are GGs able to significantly alter the future sales? Might as well reconsider your stances.
Are they vocal minority who don't even play the game? Ignore and move on.
Wallets speak harder than words.
And if they want to boycott Beamdog, let them. Gaming shouldn't be held back by bigots, and reasonable people shouldn't want to do business with them anyway.
Some people need to get over themselves and stop thinking that their paradigm is some kind of norm or sacred sanctuary threatened by everything that doesn't pander to them.
/s
That isn't to say Beamdog themselves won't fix the biggest issues involved. Clearly some issue with the map is there, that I've heard. I am avoiding even updating my game because I don't want to break mods in my run, so I'm just playing without letting any Siege of Dragonspear added stuff even affect me.
As for the trans char... from what I've read, the reveal isn't forced or sudden. Its a thing you only find out if you investigate into this person's existence. They don't just blatantly confront you about it. The Charname asks and then the character just explains.
But really, in a world where Polymorph spells and Permanency were available, is there really a problem? Acceptance, yes. Especially in a barbarian culture like a cleric of tempus would come from. I have no idea or full information on the char, but the fact that it is a Cleric of Tempus leads me to assume from the Dales and everything and everyone knows how grim and dark the cultures are up there.
But, if someone wants to be another sex in the Forgotten Realms, they can just pay a wizard thousands of gold or learn magic themselves. And considering how effortless it is to make a deal with an extraplanar creature of ANY alignment, even the good ones who would probably be more then willing to hear such a simple plea and agree to it in exchange for years of service to the holy works, and how they can easily make things like that happen with magic...
Let alone the very existence of the girdle of gender reversal. That alone...
Yeah, the challenges are there, but look at Edwin. He eventually, according to the ending, becomes Edwina after he loses a battle with Elminster for the second time and lives that way to the end of his days. Even he was struggling with the whole different changes that polymorphy puts on you when you transform into another sex, especially flirting with men or being flirted at by men. And how uncomfortable and enraged it made him.
Did that make people uncomfortable? No.
Minsc's thing was, unfortunately, a mishandling of a beloved character. Even if the quote makes an entirely accurate statement in something Minsc would say because he is like that, 'Its all about ethics in heroic adventuring!' would be said not with snarky sarcasm, but actual fierce fervor. I could appreciate it for that. But getting the entirety of a stupid and silly back and forth that NO ONE understood from the outside. I came upon the GamerGate thing late and I still have no freaking idea what the entire situation was about as no real explanation of what actually caused it was ever clearly evident. It was just crazy on all sides.
Poking that hive with a stick was funny, but it also got the wasps angry. And no one needs more of that kind of provoked internet stupidity in a game we want to succeed because my god, I love this franchise.
Safana sounds just like she should sound. Because she didn't have any characterization to really make her that much of a deep character, and hey, expanding it further and her doing what she does in the game seems fine by me.
Khalid and Jaheira sound like they're even more a loving couple. Makes the tragedy of what follows all the more striking. I approve. Jaheira was always one of my favorite female characters of that series. Hardnosed, strong willed, and powerful in personality.
My only problem is that writer should have not tried to provoke such a response and just let her writing stand for herself. She did the interview and just actually tried to provoke a crapstorm. She got it. By doing so, she actively hurt the sales and prospects of the game we love. Thats the only criticism I can offer. You can be and believe whatever you want, but really, don't hurt other people by pushing forward your own beliefs.
That is what Religions do.
I just hope she got thoroughly chastised, not for her quality of writing, but intentionally provoking the internet drama. Because that is good for no one.
If I don't like her quality of writing, I know how to mod the game to change everything she has written and make it better anyway. That is one of the simple joys of this series. Don't like something in the original game? Mod it away. I'll judge first by playing through the game though, not all this controversial garbage.
So yeah, going to buy this game when I have the money to. So... meh. I'll still buy BG3 if its ever made. I just hope it will be.
Just hope one person's quest to make herself feel important hasn't ruined things for many of us. Its not about agreeing or disagreeing with the politics. Its about someone's arrogant push to make themselves feel important. If that interview didn't happen, the revelation of all these facts wouldn't be nearly as dramatic.
Personally I would rather not see a BG3 made than see it made badly, and I am sure many fans of the series would agree. Beamdog has proven that they can do many things right, but unfortunately they have also demonstrated that they can get many things wrong. As a responsible consumer I can only respond to what I am offered, and that no longer satisfies me in its current state. Any aspirations towards a continuation of the series are unlikely to find my personal endorsement; that may not mean much, but it's the only thing I can realistically do.
I urge everyone to calmly consider their own personal position on the matter, and to draw their own conclusions based on the evidence at their disposal, and their own personal inclinations. Then vote with your wallet, not with torches and pitchforks. This is the 21st century, not the 13th.
that's how i know that when people talk about not buying this or a future game i know they're coming from a gamer-politics angle, and not a from an "honest consumer" angle.
But the majority of people are not offended because of that one character. They are offended because of what they believe is sub-par writing, not only regarding that character, but in many other places as well. This isn't a new issue, either. The writing of the older new characters from BG1/2 EE has similarly been criticized; Hexxat especially, she has an entire thread dedicated to the problems people have with her writing - not because she's non-white or non-male or non-alive, but because she is written poorly, for a whole bunch of other reasons.
Now, of course a creative work is always subject to criticism that is far from objective. You can't look at writing and say "this is unequivocally and objectively not well-done" (outside of grammar and spelling, anyway, and often not even there). It's always a matter of taste, and of preference, and of understanding. HOWEVER, you also cannot deny the readers' response, either. Those responses are just as subjective, and when many people don't like someone's writing, that may not make that writing "bad" in a formal sense, but it can make it unpopular - and that is usually what people mean when they say "the writing is poor", that many people find that it could have been done better if it were done differently.
All that aside, there are definitely also some actually OBJECTIVE issues with the recent releases. Those are the ones that make up about 80% of why I personally am very upset. In my case, I'm talking primarily about the fact that one of the major features, Legacy of Bhaal, is simply not working (discounting workarounds like "start a new game every time you want to load", which while technically working does not REALLY make it work). That was already bad, but it was compounded by a shocking lack of communication as well. We found out about the issue on our own, developed workarounds on our own, went digging in databases to even find out whether it was known to the developers, etc. Not a peep on the official side, not a word of recognition, acknowledgement, or - gods forbid - even apology. Neither do we know how quickly this game-crippling, borderline A-levek defect is going to be fixed. No one expects miracles, but being quietly ignored speaks volumes in and of itself. As a consumer, particularly one that has been extremely hyped by and very much looking forward to the new feature, that is the PR equivalent of a slap in the face.
I don't think that it's unreasonable for consumers to give a proper response to how they are treated, and to what they are served. In fact, I'd say it's REQUIRED of responsible consumers to communicate their dissatisfaction with issues like this - but it is just as much required that it be done sensibly and properly. Not through review-bombing, not by tweeting how you wish everyone involved got eaten by rabid hamsters (space or otherwise) and certainly not by making threats and throwing expletives at the people involved. That has the exact opposite effect, and only makes a bad situation even worse. Business is all about communication - you as a company try to deliver a product you hope you will sell, we as consumers try to get you to make it in a way so we like buying it. This isn't an easy goal to arrive at, and already there's lots of noise to fight through in trying to get the point across - from both sides. Fogging up that process with mindless, even violent screaming is not helping anyone.
But that being said, resignation and acceptance is also not an appropriate response. You have to communicate clearly, and sometimes that involves saying No. Not buying something is in a way the ultima ratio at a consumer's disposal, but ideally it should be accompanied by an explanation. Tell them WHY you are not buying something! Now, I realize that this, too, can spiral out of control and end up in a "hostage crisis" where you want to exchange money for exactly what you want, when you want it - that's part of the dance. You swing to one side and then the other, and hopefully you find somewhere in the middle where balance is possible. But you can't stop swinging.
It saddens me to see that what is a real problem has been clogged up, clouded, and drowned in completely irresponsible, immature, and borderline psychotic rage - from all the wrong people, and for all the wrong reasons. I can only hope that we manage to somehow scrape off that thick coat of toxic mud, and arrive at the core of the issue; some very real concerns that should be addressed, and that have nothing to do with the "SJW war" that is raging on the surface, fueled primarily by some hateful bigots who can't seem to realize what century it is. Their voices are not the majority, and despite their volume and inflammatory words should not drown out those of us who only want the games we love to be the best they can be.
So yes, people will be irritated at first by the "political correctness" being forced upon them but they'll adapt. I think people are generally becoming more progressive but there is a vocal minority who are not. There are gay-straight alliances and open discussions about how to reduce bullying towards minorities (both sexual and ethnic minorities) and more people are protesting against systemic discrimination.
Tolerance doesn't thrive on acting like a group doesn't exist and keeping them out of view where we can always see them as weird and other.
Erm, yes, they very much did.
@shawne Thank you for the link. I didn't read it all (I should actually be doing something productive now) but I read the first page. I'm sure it devolves over the next 5 pages, but I liked that the majority of posters were supportive of gay romances and the first major argument was whether there should be any romances at all.
The original games managed to be hugely popular without stirring a whole sh!tstorm of controversy - why was it so hard for Beamdog to do the same? (particularly since they were only making a transitional expansion and not a standalone sequel).
I for one hope BG3 gets made. But good lord, do not make it some level 30+ continuation from ToB. First off, it's just completely alienating for any possible new gamers. Second, the DnD rulesets just aren't built for that. Even with an equipment reset, you'd be starting off fighting some of the most complex monster or armies in the game lore. Maybe it's just me, but playing thru ToB often devolves into a tedious slog. The final battle is worth it, but progressing through the combats in that game just isn't as fun as it is in BG2 and even BG1.
Ideally, I'd vote to keep a modified 2edition+ ruleset a la BG2, but I know that's probably a pipe dream with what WotC would demand.
Either because she trusts the charname or because it really shouldn't/doesn't matter in the game world. The character seems to explain it clearly so your not having to work around it with different pronouns etc. Grow up people.
The way I take it is this: shes very confident and loves herself, maybe due to lack of hate in the forgotten realms or because shes just got a strong personality.
Anyone afraid to see something like this needs to go away because its becoming more accepted by people who have open minds and are not complete ignorant tools. This is the future and acceptance is happening whether the bigots complain or not. BGnext wont be hindered because of some insecure people or bigots who cant handle something this small.
One of my friends recently came out as trans/identifies as a woman now and it didn't change anything other than make me more proud to call them my friend because of their courage in the face of so much negativity. If anything the same thing happens when I read the text for the character, she seems confident and that's a good thing.
Seems to me like a bunch of trolls trying to bash the game by using this as their go to reason while also tacking in a ton of other complaints either after or before. I personally see no problem with the conversation with her but maybe its just because im not as close minded as most it seems.
Its weird some people can toss the belt of gender on someone and not complain/feel threatened then but when they actually throw in a few lines of dialogue from a seemingly courageous/openly trans character its all over....I think im missing the point or I don't see it, but people need to grow the hell up.
Do not ignore people complaining about how the identity is presented, or complaining about the writing because of HOW it is written.
Obvs the writing could have been better, that can be said for anything IMO, but seriously shes a minor character, if she was an npc to recruit then sure more would be needed/added to make her more interesting. She seems pretty bad *** and confident to me.....
Im probably not seeing how this is a problem, so maybe explain how the writing/presentation of this minor character is bad? ( not trolling or a joke, I literally don't get it...) Yes in terms of quality any of the conversations had can be better written/presented but I just don't get why hers sticks out so bad other than because its not something most people see/deal with and they don't accept it.
1. as @joluv noted in another thread it is noteworthy that most of the concerned critics of the trans character can't describe the interaction correctly. No, she does not just walk up and say "I'm trans" She's trans and she doesn't expect you to be shocked by that.
2. Sorry to inject reality into a good echo-chamber rage-fest but I have met a *number* of trans people who have given public talks that started with statements like "Let me situate myself. I'm a trans man and . . ." In fact all but one of the trans people I know identified themselves within the first few minutes.
And check out dating sites -- it not at all uncommon for trans people to wear their status on their sleeves. As in "I'm trans! Still reading? Good . . . "
It's not bad writing it's what the anti crowd settled on when all of their other arguments failed. Sure you can make some sort of snob appeal but for (&#@ sake this is dungeons and dragons and should be judged accordingly.