Granted, they could have avoided it all by using "lad/lass" instead.
Middle English: abbreviation of obsolete wenchel ‘child, servant, prostitute’; perhaps related to Old English wancol ‘unsteady, inconstant.’
We can play dueling dictionaries, but I think it boils down to a dismissive term. He doesn't say "Ho there, M'lady" or "Ho there, lass"...he uses the same word that the drunk bar patrons use to talk to the serving women who say "I'm a fine looking strumpet, aint I" when you click on them. CHARNAME is just responding to a dumb, drunken lout.
I will concede that there are more negative responses than there need to be, but the dialog doesn't need a positive one.
We can play dueling dictionaries, but I think it boils down to a dismissive term. He doesn't say "Ho there, M'lady" or "Ho there, lass"...he uses the same word that the drunk bar patrons use to talk to the serving women who say "I'm a fine looking strumpet, aint I" when you click on them. CHARNAME is just responding to a dumb, drunken lout.
I will concede that there are more negative responses than there need to be, but the dialog doesn't need a positive one.
Ehh... those aren't serving women. Listen to the other things they say, they're actually "strumpets" (aka actual prostitutes).
Wench is one of those words that changes meaning based on context. In general, it's simply a reference to a lower class serving woman, typically in a bar or inn. If it's offensive, it's offensive in the sense of calling someone a servant (when they aren't).
But context is everything. If you're with a bar-hopping group of men, and they say, "let's go wenching!" It means "let's go find us some loose women or prostitutes." Consider the modern use of a phrase like "working girl" when you think of wench. In real life, depending on context, "working girl" could mean a hard-working young woman who could be a library assistant or a shopping mall sales girl. But if used downtown at night on the weekend, "working girl" means prostitute.
In the context of the Forgotten Realms, all of the above are still accurate, but with a small twist. Unlike in real life, women aren't judged any more than men for being sexual. Someone may be judged in the Realms if sleeping around is all they care about and all they do (for example, men might be called a "randy buck" or a "lusty jack"), but men and women in the Realms are equally judged on being extremely lusty to the exclusion of everything else.
Know also that in the Realms there are "festhalls" which are a kind of entertainment combining dancers, strippers, escorts, prostitutes, dress-up roleplaying with masks or costumes (yes, roleplay within the roleplay game), theater shows, games of chance (cards and dice especially), dining out (from finger foods to exquisite multi-course meals), and alcoholic beverages (ales, bitters, beers, mixed wines, watered spirits, and fancy imported wines and spirits). There are high-class festhalls and low class festhalls. In the back rooms, you may find sexual activity, slap-n-tickle games, high-stakes card games, all different kinds of dress-up play, poetry reading, light music, legal or illegal drug use, all sorts of things.
In the cities, people of all walks of life and all races go to festhalls. People of certain religions and people of certain nationalities might be shocked or disapproving depending on who they are. But in western Faerun, it's common and not judged like our society would judge those things.
Puts me off playing a female character, if the game forces me to be "offended" every time some chump says a bad word. I want to play heroic characters. Not someone who wallows in self-pity.
That is a very peculiar definition of "someone who wallows in self pity."
There are so many options that could be added as responses here.
1. Sadly for you, this wench is one you can never afford. 2. And hail to you too, ape. 3. Wenches don't wear armour, Sir. 4. I would serve you wine, but given your smell, I think you are wearing it all. 5. Could you close your mouth, sir? We are standing down-wind.
That is a very peculiar definition of "someone who wallows in self pity."
There are so many options that could be added as responses here.
1. Sadly for you, this wench is one you can never afford. 2. And hail to you too, ape. 3. Wenches don't wear armour, Sir. 4. I would serve you wine, but given your smell, I think you are wearing it all. 5. Could you close your mouth, sir? We are standing down-wind.
Again, most of these could be taken either as playful banter or bitter reproaches.
There are six options, but they are all the same...... How can I role play different personalities with that??
All the same? I know that dialogue, have looked at the screenshot once more, and I see different nuances of responding to the greeting.
Different nuances? You have 5 options of acting offended. You have a somewhat "neutral" answer - "Are you talking to me?", which, without the rest of the dialogue we can't say it is another offended way of replying or just ignoring the "wench" all together.
You do not, however, have a witty comeback option (e.g., how a bard / rogue would reply), you know take the blow and show humor like Imoen and Korgan's dialogue in BG2.
You do not have the option of a flirtatious dialogue (e.g., perhaps a seducer bard would play like that).
That is a very peculiar definition of "someone who wallows in self pity."
There are so many options that could be added as responses here.
1. Sadly for you, this wench is one you can never afford. 2. And hail to you too, ape. 3. Wenches don't wear armour, Sir. 4. I would serve you wine, but given your smell, I think you are wearing it all. 5. Could you close your mouth, sir? We are standing down-wind.
Again, most of these could be taken either as playful banter or bitter reproaches.
Playful Banter or bitter reproaches = 2 options. Better than just 1 - to be offended. In a roleplaying game, the more options you get the better. If there is only 1 option, the player is placed in the passenger's seat and has zero control over the character.
Well yeah. That's what I'm saying. "This may be the shortest time ever between meeting someone and deciding to kill them" could be dead serious, or it could not be.
That is a very peculiar definition of "someone who wallows in self pity."
There are so many options that could be added as responses here.
1. Sadly for you, this wench is one you can never afford. 2. And hail to you too, ape. 3. Wenches don't wear armour, Sir. 4. I would serve you wine, but given your smell, I think you are wearing it all. 5. Could you close your mouth, sir? We are standing down-wind.
Well yeah. That's what I'm saying. "This may be the shortest time ever between meeting someone and deciding to kill them" could be dead serious, or it could not be.
I do think deciding to kill someone because they called you a name is a disproportionate response, but fortunately it is possible to reply with something else.
Why am I only allowed to be friendly to this child? You think I wrote that name in all-caps because my keyboard's broken? This is almost as bad as when Fallout 3 didn't let me obliterate kidnapped orphans with homemade cola explosives.
Well yeah. That's what I'm saying. "This may be the shortest time ever between meeting someone and deciding to kill them" could be dead serious, or it could not be.
I do think deciding to kill someone because they called you a name is a disproportionate response
Yes it is, but
that's my point.
Like, am I the only one who doesn't read that line in a serious tone of voice? Most people, when murderously enraged, tend to shout and hit someone rather than calmly saying "Hmm, I do believe I'm inclined to kill you for that."
Why am I only allowed to be friendly to this child? You think I wrote that name in all-caps because my keyboard's broken? This is almost as bad as when Fallout 3 didn't let me obliterate kidnapped orphans with homemade cola explosives.
You could in Fallout 1-2, I think. But as a rule games don't let you harm or be cruel to children (a good thing).
The way I see this (and fiction is my job) is that whoever wrote this bit of dialogue has no empathy and very little understanding for other viewpoints/reactions than their own.
Why am I only allowed to be friendly to this child? You think I wrote that name in all-caps because my keyboard's broken? This is almost as bad as when Fallout 3 didn't let me obliterate kidnapped orphans with homemade cola explosives.
You could in Fallout 1-2, I think. But as a rule games don't let you harm or be cruel to children (a good thing).
Don't even talk to me about Fallout 2. In the European versions of that game, they "fixed" the problem of child violence by making all the children invisible, which meant you'd be walking across a certain town and suddenly notice half your inventory missing because ghost urchins had been picking your pockets the whole time.
REGARDLESS, while I can't be rude to this kid, there's nothing stopping me from fireballing her to soot, so I don't know if that point holds water.
Why am I only allowed to be friendly to this child? You think I wrote that name in all-caps because my keyboard's broken? This is almost as bad as when Fallout 3 didn't let me obliterate kidnapped orphans with homemade cola explosives.
You could in Fallout 1-2, I think. But as a rule games don't let you harm or be cruel to children (a good thing).
Don't even talk to me about Fallout 2. In the European versions of that game, they "fixed" the problem of child violence by making all the children invisible, which meant you'd be walking across a certain town and suddenly notice half your inventory missing because ghost urchins had been picking your pockets the whole time.
REGARDLESS, while I can't be rude to this kid, there's nothing stopping me from fireballing her to soot, so I don't know if that point holds water.
I didn't know you could cast fireballs at kids in the BG games (never tried).
That is a very peculiar definition of "someone who wallows in self pity."
There are so many options that could be added as responses here.
1. Sadly for you, this wench is one you can never afford. 2. And hail to you too, ape. 3. Wenches don't wear armour, Sir. 4. I would serve you wine, but given your smell, I think you are wearing it all. 5. Could you close your mouth, sir? We are standing down-wind.
See these are wonderful. Add in the obvious "I'll kill you." remark and it's gold.
That is a very peculiar definition of "someone who wallows in self pity."
There are so many options that could be added as responses here.
1. Sadly for you, this wench is one you can never afford. 2. And hail to you too, ape. 3. Wenches don't wear armour, Sir. 4. I would serve you wine, but given your smell, I think you are wearing it all. 5. Could you close your mouth, sir? We are standing down-wind.
See these are wonderful. Add in the obvious "I'll kill you." remark and it's gold.
That... is incredibly sad and good? I don't know how to feel about that. Yay that you must be a fun DM to play with, if you DM that is, boo that this sort of thing is missing from SoD.
Comments
EDIT: Double post, sorry.
I will concede that there are more negative responses than there need to be, but the dialog doesn't need a positive one.
Wench is one of those words that changes meaning based on context. In general, it's simply a reference to a lower class serving woman, typically in a bar or inn. If it's offensive, it's offensive in the sense of calling someone a servant (when they aren't).
But context is everything. If you're with a bar-hopping group of men, and they say, "let's go wenching!" It means "let's go find us some loose women or prostitutes." Consider the modern use of a phrase like "working girl" when you think of wench. In real life, depending on context, "working girl" could mean a hard-working young woman who could be a library assistant or a shopping mall sales girl. But if used downtown at night on the weekend, "working girl" means prostitute.
In the context of the Forgotten Realms, all of the above are still accurate, but with a small twist. Unlike in real life, women aren't judged any more than men for being sexual. Someone may be judged in the Realms if sleeping around is all they care about and all they do (for example, men might be called a "randy buck" or a "lusty jack"), but men and women in the Realms are equally judged on being extremely lusty to the exclusion of everything else.
Know also that in the Realms there are "festhalls" which are a kind of entertainment combining dancers, strippers, escorts, prostitutes, dress-up roleplaying with masks or costumes (yes, roleplay within the roleplay game), theater shows, games of chance (cards and dice especially), dining out (from finger foods to exquisite multi-course meals), and alcoholic beverages (ales, bitters, beers, mixed wines, watered spirits, and fancy imported wines and spirits). There are high-class festhalls and low class festhalls. In the back rooms, you may find sexual activity, slap-n-tickle games, high-stakes card games, all different kinds of dress-up play, poetry reading, light music, legal or illegal drug use, all sorts of things.
In the cities, people of all walks of life and all races go to festhalls. People of certain religions and people of certain nationalities might be shocked or disapproving depending on who they are. But in western Faerun, it's common and not judged like our society would judge those things.
1. Sadly for you, this wench is one you can never afford.
2. And hail to you too, ape.
3. Wenches don't wear armour, Sir.
4. I would serve you wine, but given your smell, I think you are wearing it all.
5. Could you close your mouth, sir? We are standing down-wind.
You do not, however, have a witty comeback option (e.g., how a bard / rogue would reply), you know take the blow and show humor like Imoen and Korgan's dialogue in BG2.
You do not have the option of a flirtatious dialogue (e.g., perhaps a seducer bard would play like that).
Just to name a couple.
Why am I only allowed to be friendly to this child? You think I wrote that name in all-caps because my keyboard's broken? This is almost as bad as when Fallout 3 didn't let me obliterate kidnapped orphans with homemade cola explosives.
that's my point.
Like, am I the only one who doesn't read that line in a serious tone of voice? Most people, when murderously enraged, tend to shout and hit someone rather than calmly saying "Hmm, I do believe I'm inclined to kill you for that."
Also, @Glam_Vrock , best username/response ever.
REGARDLESS, while I can't be rude to this kid, there's nothing stopping me from fireballing her to soot, so I don't know if that point holds water.
Add in the obvious "I'll kill you." remark and it's gold.
I don't know how to feel about that.
Yay that you must be a fun DM to play with, if you DM that is, boo that this sort of thing is missing from SoD.