Shaman - viable?
AeriT
Member Posts: 9
Hi,
Haven't found that many threads on shamans.
I'm halfway through the game with a thief but wanted to get a new game going with some sort of support.
I was looking at the shaman and tested it out in the tutorial.
Being able to use spells without memorizing is fun but not being able to move/do anything while -hoping- a creature is summoned to help in the fight seems underwhelming.
How does the shaman compare to other support chars?
Haven't found that many threads on shamans.
I'm halfway through the game with a thief but wanted to get a new game going with some sort of support.
I was looking at the shaman and tested it out in the tutorial.
Being able to use spells without memorizing is fun but not being able to move/do anything while -hoping- a creature is summoned to help in the fight seems underwhelming.
How does the shaman compare to other support chars?
1
Comments
Plus free summons.
So...mostly not a front-liner, but a very good healer/buffer/damage dealer.
Just try playing one and get a feel of it. You'll see if you like it or not.
And the "free" summons which sounds great BUT which you can't control at all - the more you dance the more summons you get (sounds good right) but there is also the chance of failure so not so great plus you can't move at all and do I have to say it again - NO control over the summons at all. With no ability to move while dancing and no control over the spirits - you have to wonder why the heck are you dancing and summoning them if they don't do what you want. And really dancing is not all the practical in a melee situation unless you really plan it all out - ie with scouts and such things. Otherwise if you are just using the shaman as a healer than bring a cleric - as they do it better; and if you like druid spells (great higher level druid spells) than play a multi or dual classed druid who outclasses the shaman in all ways.
That is not to say you should not try it out. Try it out - ( I did the same thing) - I even survived to get to the Friendly Arms and used the dancing to get rid of some of those monsters that we encountered but it required some managing of time and strategy and NPCs for it to work.
No soloing for the shaman class at all or even a small team of less than 4 might prove too challenging with a shaman as one of the team members.
If you play a shaman - then you need some good NPCs to keep you alive and for the most part to "drag" the monsters to you if you decide to dance and summon - since the summons well only really attack if the foes get close enough to you and that is not always a given as they have a mind of their own.
If beamdog had made a NPC as a shaman that would have been so great so it would allow us to test it out. They made a wild mage and a sun monk why not a shaman as well.
If beamdog had made the shaman class closer to the pnp 3.5 ed it would have been good and added some of the IWD spells that druid get over there - but sadly this is quite an underwhelming class which could have been so much better - you have to enjoy micro-managing your team to just survive as a shaman.
I set her up to dance before fights begin until at least one creature was summoned (don't like doing that cheese strategy) and then tried to pull the mobs towards her so the summons would attack.
Thing is, because I can't control them, they sometimes didn't attack when the mob was just a little too far away or behind a corner etc.
I found the shaman interesting in an rp way but wasn't fun for me to play with so I'll try out other classes.
Thanks for the advice everyone!
Spontaneous casting is always way better in my opinion because you usually always have a backup anyway, but I'm using the shaman with no clerics in my party so I'm not so sure how that'll hold up.
Probably fine in SoD, but I don't see it being viable in 2 at all.
The shamanistic dance is sadly.... not worth the time it takes I found.
But if you want a pure summoner then a totemic druid or a beastmaster 13/Cleric dual is going to be alot better in the long run. Not sure if death spell wrecks spirits as well, if it doesnt then there is atleast some minor upside to it but yeah. They make a good and interesting healer and half decent range attacker with thrown weapons as a half-orc, but thats about it.
Dancing
Having access to summons from the outset can be very powerful, being able to spew them out constantly can tear through the early game as they summon faster than they die. That said, summoning during battle is pretty much useless. The only practical way to use them is to spend a few minutes dancing and then get other characters to lure the enemies (which you, the player know are there) in. That sort of meta strategy doesn't sit so well with me. So my second shaman has barely used it at present.Another issue is that they summon at your feet (often behind you, and can't be moved in front) which means that they take time walking to the enemy, and by the time they get there, they aren't so far away. A few times a mage has cast horror on my pets as they kept the bodyguards busy, they were close enough that the area effect hit my shaman, made her move, and unsummoned my pets. ugh... With more AoE spells at high levels, this could be a significant issue. If I could summon at the edge of my sight, or move away after they were engaged, that wouldn't happen. It also kinda sucks that once all my minions are summoned and I can't get anymore, I still can't cast buffs or fight alongside them, all I can do is stand there and hope I don't misclick anything.
At higher levels I can only speculate. With 75% chance, it might be more useable during battle, but with a high chance of getting underleveled monsters, I'm not sure if it will actually be able to tank enough to be useful.
Spellcasting
I'm really liking the spellcasting. While I always felt the druid spells were rubbish (all the great cleric ones are missing, and they get goodberries to make up for it?), but the limited spell pool is good for the sorcerer casting style. The new spells are also pretty decent. The first level one hasn't really come into play (I don't know of any fey or spectral undead in BG1), but I imagine it'll be useful in the shadow temple in 2. The frost cloud has been very powerful at this time for disabling groups of mages as a quick cast, and the third level spell is a useful recovery spell which is situational (exactly what you want with the no memorisation style.The only real problem is how slow they come early on. I already open new levels when I'm a higher level than druids, but I also gain levels slower too. Multiclassed Jaheira gets new spell levels faster than me. But with me having more per day, that's more than ok.
Combat
I've always been a fan of throwing axes, so having access to a solid ranged weapon is a big plus for me. Having that along with a half orcs strength is great too. The thing is, a half orc constitution is useless for a non warrior class and my thac0 is too low to get hits at range anyway. Makes me wish I could multiclass a barbarian or fighter. The strength is nice, but a fighter/druid would get specialisation, better armour, more health, almost as good strength, and still unlock spell levels faster (though not as many castings). I do feel combat is much better than a single class druid though.Unfortunately, I think by the time I reach late game, I'll have so many spells, and summoning that will be decent in battle, so I doubt I'll be using my weapons much anyway.
TL:DR
Overall I love the design direction of the class. I'm glad it's more than just a druid sorcerer, but I feel the summoning mechanic needs something more. Maybe the means to walk around while dancing, or the ability to control the summons. Just something, because at the moment, It's pretty underwhelming early on outside of metagaming, and I'm not sure how much it will improve. I really like the spellcasting style, and the combat capabilities are better than a pure druid, but not fantastic, and ultimately irrelevant outside of the early game. I so wish I could multi/dual class.Their spellcasting is lackluster as low-levels, because they're druids, but quite strong at higher levels, also because they're druids. All in all, they're not as crazy powerful as mages, but they seem pretty good, and the fact that their summons are at-will means you don't need to rest nearly as often with them, which can help for some types of playthroughs. In general, I'd say shamans are probably as strong or moreso than most single-classes in the game, but at as strong as the strongest single-classes or most multies and duals.
Perfectly done on the devs side I'd say.
This is news to me.
Would you tell your boss to stop paying you because - you know - he's already paid you for the work you did before, so from now on, you'll do it for free? Is begging as a way to put food on the table THAT underrated?!?
I do like the idea of a divine caster with a bow, and the half orc 19str/18 dex is great for the throwing weapons in bg2 though.
I must say though, having access to Entangle on demand really fits how I play
I would have prefered the shaman's summons to have directly impacted the character as buffs instead of lock the character in place (i.e., red spirit increases thaco/hurts ac, blue spirit, gives all spells double impact, etc etc).
As you grew up in candlekeep, you learned to the ways of your tribe from a travelling barbarian who guided you on the path. Later you discovered your connection to the spirit world. While understanding of your tribal ways grew, you also learned how to harnest the ancient powers of your ancestors.
And why isn't there a shaman stronghold?
I've been using Minsc, Jaheira, Kivan, Coran, Faldorn and Neera (rotating the 7th member in and out) as a nature-loving hippy squad, so not the strongest team, but she's worked with them pretty well.
A doable alternative could be to be slowed down significantly, similar to dwarven defender when in defensive mode.
Decided to check my kill count after reading a few posts here. Suck it Coran. I never dance and play fairly aggressively with my shaman.
I see you favor daggers. Throwing or melee (or both?) I always went at it with a spear and two-weapon fighting on my shaman. The spear's reach let me poke around Khalid. Plus the extra crit chance was nice.
Here's the original picture by Ales Bohm. I fell in love with it when I first saw it.
I initially took proficiencies in dagger and sword and shield style which was a good choice. Throwing daggers have 2 APR and get strength bonus to damage, so I was mopping the floor with hobgoblins, wolves, bears, and all the other early critters. If I found myself in melee or the target of ranged attacks, I'd just switch to a melee dagger. The down sides to the throwing daggers are they are difficult to store, relatively expensive early game, and aren't readily available everywhere. I'd end up buying 10 stacks every time I visited Beregost. At level 4, I picked axes proficiency, but in retrospect I wish I had picked clubs because of all the skeletons. I grabbed Buckley's Buckler really quick and I'm amazed how good regeneration is in BG1. I can play my character a little more aggressively and not worry about him becoming a cure sponge.
As for the shaman specific spells:
Spirit Ward: Holy crap I underestimated this spell. The two most important lines are +3 bonus on Savings Throws to resist Enchantment spells and Casting Time: 1. A refresher, here's a list of some of the enchantment spells: charm person, sleep, ray of enfeeblement, dire charm, hold person, confusion, hopelessness, chaos, feeblemind, domination, etc. Most of these spells will wreck your day. If I ever ended up screwing up and opposing casters were able to get spells off, I could quickly throw up a spirit ward to give me a good chance to resist it and start working on fixing the situation.
Writhing Fog: I underestimated this one too. Its a mini cloudkill that casts really fast. Its really easy to cheese with this spell, but even if you don't it is extremely useful. It's great for interrupting spellcasters without presenting to much of a danger to your melee fighters. You can cast it defensively when you are being chased by a conga line of ogres, and since the caster is immune to it you can lure unsuspecting trash mobs to their deaths. This spell is probably the biggest reason my kill count is so high.
Spiritual Clarity: It's visual range which is nice, and it fixes some of the worst status effects in BG1, but a casting time of 9 is painful.
Spirit Fire: A crappy 4th level fireball. Only nice thing I can say about it is that it deals magic damage instead of fire damage. Perhaps it will be more useful in BG2.
I stopped using the shaman dance after I tested it out on my first shaman character. Only interesting thing I can say about the summons is that their hits count as magic weapons. I don't like this ability at all.