Solo insane attempt
Aewyrven
Member Posts: 228
So, I think I'm going to try a pure solo run through on insane.
Class combo I'm thinking is a shadowdancer dual classed to a mage.
I know mages are insanely powerful on their own once they unlock the higher tier spells but a few levels in SD shouldn't be much of a sacrifice when you add in HiPS.
A few muddy areas on it however....
1) HiS and Ms are calculated (from googling multiple sources) at HiS+ms/2 = chance to stay hidden on the subsequent checks on if you are still hidden. Ass/u/me-ing this, since my plan is to abuse HiPS, i really only need to worry about HiS. (Damage avoidance similar to cycling staff of magi.
2) Looking at gear I've obtained so far through SoA on my blackguard it seems I only really need about 85ish in HiS for him to gear cap it at 100.
3) traps and locks to 100 should open everything and disarm/detect everything through SoA. .. does it apply to Tob? That and traps can probably again sit at roughly 85 with potions or gloves to cap up at 100.
4) Starting profs fire me swords and bows from SD.... do these carry over when I dual class to my mage and re-aquire my thief skills? (I think they do since it's basically what Imoen is and she can use bows and short swords)
5) SD starts at 8. Which is giving me a readout of 85 85 70 on locks traps hide. So it's not really much to even cap those....couple of levels.
6) Does my char draw from the SD HLA or the mage HLA?
7) If I can hold off doing bloodscalp and Mae'var until I have dualed over to the mage, will it allow me to take the sphere as my stronghold instead or will I end up forced into the thief guild?
My main reason for the shadowdancer is NOT for backstabbing. It is to allow it to be self sufficient in dealing with all the dam traps locked chests and the fact that my face is probably going to get beat in doing this solo so again, abusing HiPS. .. I also am also wanting to refrain from using staff of Magi if I can get away with it to help make things tougher (plus it isn't a very viable weapon to obtain in the early stages of the game.)
I want the thief skills plus the perk of hips while using the mage side to kill.
I also want to attempt minimal reloads.
A stat roll of 92 gives me a 10/18/16/18/18/12 setup. (Easy enough to aquire, cha can't drop below 12)
Str isn't a big deal since I will be killing with magic not melee most of the time.
Thoughts and answers on my questions?
Class combo I'm thinking is a shadowdancer dual classed to a mage.
I know mages are insanely powerful on their own once they unlock the higher tier spells but a few levels in SD shouldn't be much of a sacrifice when you add in HiPS.
A few muddy areas on it however....
1) HiS and Ms are calculated (from googling multiple sources) at HiS+ms/2 = chance to stay hidden on the subsequent checks on if you are still hidden. Ass/u/me-ing this, since my plan is to abuse HiPS, i really only need to worry about HiS. (Damage avoidance similar to cycling staff of magi.
2) Looking at gear I've obtained so far through SoA on my blackguard it seems I only really need about 85ish in HiS for him to gear cap it at 100.
3) traps and locks to 100 should open everything and disarm/detect everything through SoA. .. does it apply to Tob? That and traps can probably again sit at roughly 85 with potions or gloves to cap up at 100.
4) Starting profs fire me swords and bows from SD.... do these carry over when I dual class to my mage and re-aquire my thief skills? (I think they do since it's basically what Imoen is and she can use bows and short swords)
5) SD starts at 8. Which is giving me a readout of 85 85 70 on locks traps hide. So it's not really much to even cap those....couple of levels.
6) Does my char draw from the SD HLA or the mage HLA?
7) If I can hold off doing bloodscalp and Mae'var until I have dualed over to the mage, will it allow me to take the sphere as my stronghold instead or will I end up forced into the thief guild?
My main reason for the shadowdancer is NOT for backstabbing. It is to allow it to be self sufficient in dealing with all the dam traps locked chests and the fact that my face is probably going to get beat in doing this solo so again, abusing HiPS. .. I also am also wanting to refrain from using staff of Magi if I can get away with it to help make things tougher (plus it isn't a very viable weapon to obtain in the early stages of the game.)
I want the thief skills plus the perk of hips while using the mage side to kill.
I also want to attempt minimal reloads.
A stat roll of 92 gives me a 10/18/16/18/18/12 setup. (Easy enough to aquire, cha can't drop below 12)
Str isn't a big deal since I will be killing with magic not melee most of the time.
Thoughts and answers on my questions?
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Comments
so may I suggest 18/18/15/16/15/10 after tomes this will be 19/19/16/17/18/11 or if you really dont want the added strength you could put it into cha for the various bonuses 18 char can award...10/18/15/16/15/18
Shadowdancer is a great kit but it is very difficult to get a well rounded duelled SD with the lack of available skill points. You may find you need to sacrifice skill in other areas to make proper use of HiPS.
so may I suggest 18/18/15/16/15/10 after tomes this will be 19/19/16/17/18/11 or if you really dont want the added strength you could put it into cha for the various bonuses 18 char can award...10/18/15/16/15/18
Shadowdancer is a great kit but it is very difficult to get a well rounded duelled SD with the lack of available skill points. You may find you need to sacrifice skill in other areas to make proper use of HiPS.
It's leaning on the mage to kill so wants the 18 int to cap put bonus spells. The 18 wis to allow for wish use. Str isn't important since a few minor quests in I will end up leveling enough to dual over.
Cha isn't needed. The only time I've found so far cha was nice was bluffing the pirate lord to send me to spell hold. Actually disjointed the game. Missed quests doing it (and xp). I have found zero use for it on bg cleric thief and druid. It's an rp stat and this char is more a pwr game char than an rp char.
Glad to know it will take the mage HLA. The deva will be handy.
The MS isn't an issue since I plan to use HiPS to cancel a spell or move away from mug. I don't plan to run around and backstab. Think of it as abusing staff of magi for its invisible without having a staff of magi. That's why I am taking SD over a different kit. I gain the hips as a bonus in addition to lockpick and trap find to ease solo play. Plus bag space is usually my issue not weight.... dam darts and arrows and bolts....
The way I understand stealth is it uses the ms+his/2 rule to continue staying stealthed but uses your HiS roll to determine if you hide in the first place. (Could be wrong). But if true since I'm not -moving - to any real tactical advantage I get the turns worth of being stealthed before it rechecks if I can stay hidden or tosses me out of Shadows. (19 ish seconds from what I'm able to google) which is plenty of time since I plan to use it more as an interrupt or a hide and run, not so much a go backstab the guy.
Edit: stronghold I prefer the sphere anyways. So I just need to be dualed over and complete valygar before Mae'var. Nice.
On the point of charisma I've found there's a suprisingly amount of things in the game that cha can help with most are relatively small but still nice to have, extra rewards alternate options greatly reduced cost of items. I tend to base cha level on a RP perspective rather than mechanical I guess its whatever you prefer.
There is a set time of about 18 secs from first successful hide to a recheck on continuing to hide. This makes move silent in my.mind kinda moot since the way I plan to play this char is abuse the hips muchlike a pure mage would abuse staff of magi invisibility. Difference being in gain additional xp from locks and traps. (Plus the loot)
The SD levels will be for hips lock and trap then dual over to mage for main play. From what I've seen with my 92 roll and start at level 8.... it's really only 3 levels then mage pure.
Since I can as said above get the mage stronghold.... it's icing. ..
I know mages get insanely powerful to start with and with a high wis and wish just keep chugging... it should work well.. in theory. ... it's surviving with Jack of all kinda thing.
Guess I just need to nut up and do. I'll post updates as I do em I guess if anyone wants.
They are strictly identical.
If you want to hide everytime you must get at least 100/100 or 180/20 or any combination but that doesn't take into account sunlight penalty which halves your skill.
So you need at least 400 points in stealth (200/200) to hide successfully everytime and stay hidden in the sunlight.
It's going to be difficult to get 100 in Find Traps, Open Locks and Stealth as a Shadowdancer before dualing into Mage, especially as a Human (poor racial bonuses) with 18 Dexterity (no BG1 tome). Maybe you could drop Open Locks and use the Knock spell for that.
Finally, be wary that the Shadowdancer has huge prerequisites for dualing. You need at least 15 Strength, Dexterity and Charisma to dual from one, plus 17 Intelligence to dual into Mage.
His ms are the same.
But sunlight affects and then your stay time is affected.
Do me a favor. Hide around a corner. then come back in. It says leaving shadows and then 3 to 4 secs pops you out. You still have those seconds to do your backstab.
Hmm?
Since I'm not Moving... I don't need the ms. Even if it applies the ms+ his /2 ... it's still a 70to 80% on a base roll to avoid... and yeah I'm actually testing this...
I don't think you're understanding what I'm doing.
To prove you I'm right. I created a level 1 Thief, used EEKeeper to give him 200 in Move Silently and 0 in Hide in Shadows, I went to the nearest dark area and hid. It worked 100% of the time and I stayed hidden 100% of the time regardless of if I'm moving or not. Simply because (200+0)/2 = 100% success rate.
As soon as I go into the sunlight, my success rate drops by 50% regardless of if I'm moving, staying at the exact same spot, trying to hide or trying to stay hidden simply because (200+0)/4 = 50% success rate.
The time you stay hidden when "leaving shadows" is also totally unaffected by your skills. When you enter stealth, the game gives you an hidden invisibility buff which lasts about 4 rounds and isn't refreshed in synch with stealth itself which is why you can sometimes stay hidden for a long time after leaving shadows while sometimes you will instantly drop out of stealth.
The looked at code. Its his + ms /2 vs detect + sun ect.
A his or ms rogue with 200 in either is going to blast through simply because of that formula.
Don't sk at 200/0 and 0/200. That is not a true test since either or nukes out the coded ms +hs/2 coded formula.
Using that is flawed kiddo. Simple math.
Sunlight I will give you, but nobody has really mapped a sunlight boundary. .. and then tut tut... most fights are indoors where it is not in play. (Inns dungeons direct houses ect)
Aside from that it seems like you are biting on the ranger stealth. Which combines the two. Not the thief his+ms.(I'm not a ranger,
Yes the code gives his and Ms but it has also (albeit poorly) used max sk values.
1) which skew it on max value. Since you can do the formula at base+skill/2 or skill+base/2 or combinations thereof. (Same result)
2) it's a max value.... and I doubt any dual class or even a multi would try hit 200 on either.
3) your own words when you enter shadows it lasts roughly 4 rounds. Ala the 18 to 19 seconds. Then the game re-checks based on light and your skills enemy spot ect. To determine if you remain hidden. Which I have stressed is not the intent. (You're actually helping my case on that comment)
And if your points (which are again helping me) on stealth 1 and stealth 2.... well... I only need 100 in one. So at that point pick the higher of the two..... since by your logic which is... fuzzy.... it doesn't matter it applies all the same...yes?
I explained very clearly how the game works, HiS and MS are strictly identical for all purposes, in every scenarios and situations.
There is no difference if you are moving or not, there is no difference if you are trying to hide for the first time or if you try to stay hidden.
I don't know how I can explain it any better, it's simple actually.