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BG2:EE Story Tweaks Mod (FEEDBACK!)

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  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    @Dee: Can all these attributes be assigned to the same item?

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    They sure can. Just keep adding effects as needed.

    jackjackshawne
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,307
    if she gets low strength (which i agree with) there will be easy ways to increase her strength but maybe doing it in the manner of gauntlets and girdles should be disabled because she'll also have the innate thac0 bonus on top of everything

    angurvadal will then be a good option for her, but i think that's ok

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    You could also just make her immune to the Strength Bonus effect, and say that as a shadow she will always have average Strength and it cannot be increased or lowered.

    shawne
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    Wouldn't dropping her strength to 10 force her into a ranged/archer role? I don't think dexterity determines backstab damage...

  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,307
    strength bonus is not so important for 5x backstabs with good weapons because it gets added after the multiplier. she'll still do great backstabs with staff of the ram for example...or any +5 weapon

    having str 10 compared to 20 just means she might do for example 60 instead of 68 dmg. it's significant, but not dramatic

    shawne
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    I'm coming to this discussion late, having overlooked it first time around.

    Interesting work, @shawne. Within your stated constraint of minimalist tweaking rather than wholesale re-writing, I agree that your proposals would be definite improvements, even though I probably still wouldn't find Dorn's BG2ee component very convincing nor Hexxat plausible.

    When you say (in the attachment, v1.2) "5. L will destroy the Cloak of Dragomir, and use it to cast a permanent Protection from Daylight spell on Hexxat", do you really mean "L"? Or should that have read "Korkorran"?

    Although you're certainly adding meaning to Hexxat's choices at the end, which is welcome, we're nevertheless still left with the jarring contradiction that she was introduced as a character emphatically determined to survive, but who later turns out to be inexplicably uninterested in survival. Did you simply decide that addressing this problem was beyond the bounds of the minimalist constraint?

  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    edited July 2015

    When you say (in the attachment, v1.2) "5. L will destroy the Cloak of Dragomir, and use it to cast a permanent Protection from Daylight spell on Hexxat", do you really mean "L"? Or should that have read "Korkorran"?

    Siding with Korkorran causes him to go hostile anyway, so technically L still owes Hexxat payment for her services. Since he can't undo Korkorran's botched transformation, the protection spell is all he can offer. (If she chooses death, that payment is Cabrina's services.)

    Although you're certainly adding meaning to Hexxat's choices at the end, which is welcome, we're nevertheless still left with the jarring contradiction that she was introduced as a character emphatically determined to survive, but who later turns out to be inexplicably uninterested in survival. Did you simply decide that addressing this problem was beyond the bounds of the minimalist constraint?

    Not at all: I'm going to add a few lines of dialogue to the confrontation with Korkorran. Hexxat will explain that she knew all along that L could restore her mortality, and that it will kill her - that's exactly what she wants. If she dies as a human, she might be able to reunite with her mother and aunts in whatever afterlife is given to Ubtao's followers. That's why she's been so determined to survive until now; had she died as a vampire, she'd be sent to the Abyss, like Bodhi.

    (One of the counterarguments the player can then make, in an attempt to persuade her, is that given the things she's done Hexxat might end up in the Abyss anyway, so she might as well stick around.)

    It's not ideal, but I think that's the best I can do while keeping it as simple as possible.

  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    shawne said:

    ... technically L still owes Hexxat payment for her services. Since he can't undo Korkorran's botched transformation, the protection spell is all he can offer.

    Ah, yes, I see.

    Hmmm ... L could reverse vampirism, but couldn't recall from shadow? Well okay, they're not the same problem and therefore this might be explicable ... but since L is more all-round powerful and competent than K, plausibility might benefit from the insertion of some exposition of why he can fix one but not the other. In a world where resurrection is widely available, recall from shadow doesn't sound as if it ought to be impossibly difficult, but maybe you can devise a credible reason.
    shawne said:

    If she dies as a human, she might be able to reunite with her mother and aunts in whatever afterlife is given to Ubtao's followers. That's why she's been so determined to survive until now; had she died as a vampire, she'd be sent to the Abyss ...
    It's not ideal, but I think that's the best I can do while keeping it as simple as possible.

    Urghh, that feels pretty weak, IMHO. However, yes, better than the current yawning plothole, and perhaps the best available "waving of hands" without major re-working. I'd like to be able to offer you a more satisfying suggestion, but I don't have one.

  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239

    Hmmm ... L could reverse vampirism, but couldn't recall from shadow? Well okay, they're not the same problem and therefore this might be explicable ... but since L is more all-round powerful and competent than K, plausibility might benefit from the insertion of some exposition of why he can fix one but not the other. In a world where resurrection is widely available, recall from shadow doesn't sound as if it ought to be impossibly difficult, but maybe you can devise a credible reason.

    Even Resurrection magic has limits within the Forgotten Realms. In this case, it's as if Hexxat was hit by a Disintegrate spell - there's no body to raise.
    Urghh, that feels pretty weak, IMHO. However, yes, better than the current yawning plothole, and perhaps the best available "waving of hands" without major re-working. I'd like to be able to offer you a more satisfying suggestion, but I don't have one.
    I think (and hope) it makes sense in context: if she knew all along that becoming mortal again would kill her, then that must have been her goal from the very start. And for all that she never brings it up again after that first tomb, it's pretty clear that Hexxat's family was important to her. She had to survive long enough to die as a human; that's the only motivation I can think of without completely rewriting her from the ground up.

    bob_veng
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    I've been contemplating another minor tweak, but I have mixed feelings about it and would very much welcome feedback:

    Changing the identity of Dorn's captor in all his epilogues from Mercy Whitedove to Schael Corwin

    Pros:

    +The player is more likely to recognize Schael than Mercy, who doesn't appear in the BG2 campaign.
    +As there are currently no plans to bring the SoD NPCs into BG2, mentioning Schael in the ToB epilogue would be a nice way to provide that extra bit of closure for anyone who took her along in SoD.
    +Women kick ass in the Forgotten Realms whether they're Doombringers of Hoar or Captains in the Flaming Fist.


    Cons:

    -It represents a more substantial departure from the canon than I've previously done, and may be stepping on Liam Esler's toes more than intended.
    -Possible lore inconsistency: would a Flaming Fist mercenary bring an accused killer to Luskan rather than Baldur's Gate?

    AedanJuliusBorisov
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    edited July 2015
    shawne said:

    Changing the identity of Dorn's captor in all his epilogues from Mercy Whitedove to Schael Corwin

    Another con is that this introduces potential inconsistency, if Corwin happened to die (permanently) in SoD. A character who isn't part of the BG story doesn't suffer that drawback.

  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239

    Another con is that this introduces potential inconsistency, if Corwin happened to die (permanently) in SoD. A character who isn't part of the BG story doesn't suffer that drawback.

    True, but that's the sort of thing BG players take on faith from the get-go - Xzar shows up in BG2 even if the player got him gibbed in BG1, etc.

  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    shawne said:

    True, but that's the sort of thing BG players take on faith from the get-go - Xzar shows up in BG2 even if the player got him gibbed in BG1, etc.

    Agreed, but that doesn't make it a good thing to introduce more of the same problem, so I still count it as a con for your suggestion ... albeit not a decisive con.

  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,307
    The continuity thing with dead characters is an acceptable evil (that people are already used to). I wouldn't call it a problem, it's just another limitation of the core design.

    jackjackCrevsDaak
  • ArthasArthas Member Posts: 1,091
    you mean like tamoko with sarevok, the girl I didn't kill ?

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