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Cleric/Thief Builds

Hi all, been slightly obsessed with building a cleric thief combination. Wanted some opinions on their practical use through the whole campaign, and how much they differ..

Shadowdancer 13 -> Cleric ??
-Priest of Shar/Mask theme
-HiPS and shadowstep, can cancel spells and reposition
-Good THAC0 with Holy Power
-Cleric HLA's only, at least gets decent summons and GoB/stealth cheese
-Quarterstaves or Clubs for backstab only (not well themed with Mask/Shar)
-1APR but each attack can be a backstab with the holy triumvirate (HP/RM/DUHM)
-B/C human and 15 sp/lvl, Thief skills mostly just stealth, need extra theif in party to compensate
-Slightly long dual, most of SoA will be gimpy
-Lots more micromanagement to be effective
-Mostly a cleric with backstab (backstab really starts to get weak in ToB?) and evasion

Priest of Lathander 10 -> Theif ??
-Would theme like Divine Seeker prestige class, could be a special agent for Oghma/Denier (is Denier dead in 3.5 ed?)
-Boon can stack up to +2 APR (does duration only count per cleric level or for highest level?)
-Modest holy triumvirate, sanctuary
-Theif HLA's only, what a shame! :smirk:
-With UAI can get additional APR with scarlet/Belm and better weapon choices, scrolls etc
-Best thief skills of the choices
-Mostly a thief with holy support (do endgame unkitted theives do well?)

Cleric/Thief
-Half-Orc for Gorion's Ward reasons (age/maturity), Gnome is optimal
-Relatively equal theif skills as PoL->Theif and relatively equal cleric spell level as SD -> Cleric
-Both class HLA's :mrgreen:
-Stuck with 1 APR until UAI, most limited with backstabs
-Multi means works as intended from lvl 1 and no downtime during midgame


and I guess since someone will likely mention, but I really want a backstab/sneaky variant:

Swashbuckler 10(15)-> Cleric
-Like Fighter->Cleric but with less APR and proficiency points, only specialized with clubs or quarterstaves (SB does not get extra .5 APR with specialization?)
-Can ignore stealth (so can wear heavy armor)
-easily replace theif utility in party (are lvl 9/12 traps useful endgame without resting cheese?)
-3 pip TWF with 1 pip flails/war hammers not too shabby
-Least amount of micromanagement
-Best THAC0/hit of the bunch using RM and +2 (+3) hit from SB

Personal opinions on SB->Cleric:
-Thief/Mage dual or multi gives up less and is abundant companion choice
-Would honestly prefer Zerker->Cleric or Druid if I wanted a divine fighter, and use Imoen or Jan for theivery support


Other kits (Assassin, Bounty Hunter) don't really seem effective unless I ee keepered them (which with my iPad, can't). Priest of Talos->Thief opinions?

So what do you all think? What would you choose? Anything I left out or am misataken with?
JuliusBorisov

Comments

  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    Try Swashbuckler 26 -> Cleric 27. The only cleric that can be specialised in scimitars! (To dual wield Scarlet Ninja-to and Belm).
    JuliusBorisov
  • PK2748PK2748 Member Posts: 381
    Gnome is the way to go. Shorty saves and multi class for the fabulous HLA. Maximum versatility and durability from level one.

    I do occadionally consider the Shadowdancer for teleport and instant hiding but dual classing is dull. To do it soon enough to be fun you lose all of the utility of being a thief. Too late and you never really get to enjoy all of your class options together.

    Half Orc are good early but once you get gear and spells don't compare to Gnomes. A Gnome can get every Half Orc advantage the same is not true in reverse.
    KramerTheWeirdJuliusBorisovAerakarmf2112
  • KramerTheWeirdKramerTheWeird Member Posts: 14
    edited September 2016
    @Wowo that is the type of dual classing I want to avoid, but it seems fun to have SB with UAI..

    @PK2748 ya unfortunately with SD you need effective stealth at least before you dual, which could be decent by lvl 9 (not bad to wait really), but the holy strength buffs a cleric have make it seem best to get the max x4 backstab a SD can get. I played a HalfOrc cleric priest up to ch. 4 SoA, and gnome from candlekeep beginning sounds fun

    I like duals around Chateau Irenicus, it gives a little RP sense to me since he went and mucked with your head something fierce, and in many cases the xp is regained before chapter 3.
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    I don't really recommend dual classing at high levels unless you can gain lots of experience fast (soloing or with mods) . So my question is: what kind of thief abilities do you want to maximize (in case of thief dual cleric) or how effective do you want to be as a healer-buffer (in case of cleric dual thief).

    From personal experience, even though it's not the best example, I am currently playing with a stalker -cleric , dualed at low levels. I did it because I wanted a cleric who could hide in shadows, specialize in staves and slings and kick some skeleton ass by choosing them as favored enemy. He dualed at level 2, but these abilities will forever affect my character throughout the game.
  • KramerTheWeirdKramerTheWeird Member Posts: 14
    DJKajuru said:

    I don't really recommend dual classing at high levels unless you can gain lots of experience fast (soloing or with mods) . So my question is: what kind of thief abilities do you want to maximize (in case of thief dual cleric) or how effective do you want to be as a healer-buffer (in case of cleric dual thief).

    I personally would prefer a class with most of the thief utility and with some divine support. One of my favorite classes is FMT and I specifically use the mage abilities to augment thief and fighter abilities. The PoL->Thief and Cleric/Thief seem best designed for this, although you could easily be a capable cleric with the latter yet not as strong melee, and the former is almost too much thief. Wish there was a F/C/T!
  • JumboWheat01JumboWheat01 Member Posts: 1,028
    I will never understand the like of Triple Classing. But then again, I have to fight myself just to use a regular two-classs Multi-class. ...EXCEPT for Cleric/Thief, oddly enough. I always favor a Half-orc for one over a gnome, though.
    karlstegger
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975
    well no matter what character you make, you will be able to beat the game with them regardless of their weaknesses or strengths, there is really no such thing as "a character that isn't efficient at what it does" and the reason for that is because it makes up for what it cant do with what it can do, so here is what I would suggest:

    I see that you have a few options up there, you should think of all the thief/cleric options that you like, then write them all down on pieces of scrap paper and place them into a hat/bin/container ( whatever tickles your fancy)

    then draw one of the pieces of paper at random, and whatever you get, choose that play through option

    remember, when making a character, its not about optimizing the character to the extreme that you destroy everything in sight ( unless you are a power gamer) its about actually playing the character, and taking advantage of the strengths it does have, instead of worrying about the weaknesses,

    because in retrospect if you are taking advantage of the strengths your character has, the weaknesses wont even matter
    JuliusBorisovSirBundlesofJoy_1912mf2112
  • KramerTheWeirdKramerTheWeird Member Posts: 14
    @sarevok57 I'm not so interested in power gaming or optimal builds (why would I want cleric thief)? I am more interested in unique and creative playstyles. Of the builds I listed I was asking for input on how they play, not how "good" they are.
    sarevok57
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300

    DJKajuru said:

    I don't really recommend dual classing at high levels unless you can gain lots of experience fast (soloing or with mods) . So my question is: what kind of thief abilities do you want to maximize (in case of thief dual cleric) or how effective do you want to be as a healer-buffer (in case of cleric dual thief).

    I personally would prefer a class with most of the thief utility and with some divine support. One of my favorite classes is FMT and I specifically use the mage abilities to augment thief and fighter abilities. The PoL->Thief and Cleric/Thief seem best designed for this, although you could easily be a capable cleric with the latter yet not as strong melee, and the former is almost too much thief. Wish there was a F/C/T!
    Ok, so let's consider that you might want to dual cleric to thief so you can maximize their skills throughout the game while having priest abilities. Possibilities:

    Dualing at low levels (1-5) means you can regain your abilities pretty early . The instant advantages are the ability to use shields , helmets, wands of heavens and fear and divine scrolls (raise dead , for example). These advantages will be useful throughout the whole game because you can always get better shields, helmets anf wands.
    As for spellcasting, I could say level 1-3 spells will be very useful in BG1 (silence, hold person, sanctuary, hold poison) and they become situational in SoA.

    Mid levels (7-11)
    You might not be able to regain skills until the end of BG1 or even SoD or SoA , unless you can gain a lot of xp by soloing or sth like that.
    Advantages: All the ones from low levels and also a ton of excellent spells and buffs that can be used throughout the whole game, such as champion strength, raise dead, summons...

    High levels (12+)

    Better let someone else describe it, I usually avoid it!

    KramerTheWeird
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    AerakarJuliusBorisovKramerTheWeirdLoldrup
  • AerakarAerakar Member Posts: 1,016
    I have always wanted to try/keeper a dwarven cleric/thief who worships Vergadain, sort of a rapscallion skill-monkey former merchant that is dedicated to his deity.
    JuliusBorisovKramerTheWeird
  • KramerTheWeirdKramerTheWeird Member Posts: 14
    @subtledoctor @Aerakar I always wondered why halflings didn't have a cleric/theif multi, can't they cross class rogue as favored class in later editions?
    The dwarf is a bit of a harder sell but it could be an explorer/scout type.

    Well, thanks for all the input! I rolled a female gnome cleric/thief. I want the RP flavor to be a special agent to a deity discovering and perserving ancient lore and relics. I rolled a 91 but tried not to make her super munchkin-y, with a good portion of points going to Int to increase lore bonus:

    Winry
    Rock Gnome, Chaotic Good
    Cleric/Thief
    STR 16
    DEX 18
    CON 15
    WIS 17
    INT 15
    CHA 10


    Any recommendations on deity? I want her to be somewhat cannonical (gorion's ward) so doesn't necessarily have to be gnome deity..
    Aerakar
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    KramerTheWeirdAerakar
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    This reminds me, @subtledoctor were you going to code up a permanent Cleric thief button weidu thing based on @Dee 's code? Possibly with @Mr2150 s input..
  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    @Pecca added a request in the UI discussion to include:

    "unhardcode the actionbar. Allow elements on the main gameplay screen to consider character IDs, thus allowing to create personalized actionbar buttons."

    Which would be the ideal solution :)
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
    smeagolheart
  • LoldrupLoldrup Member Posts: 291
    edited September 2016

    ...

    Could you define some of your abbreviations? I stumbled on these:

    GoB
    HP (nope, it can't mean 'hit points' in the given context)
    RM
    B/C
    sp
  • sluckerssluckers Member Posts: 280
    A multi-class would be most condusive to creative playstyles, as it will provide a bit more freedom and allow your playstyle to develop within certain limits all the way to the end. You will also get to mix and match HLAs for unique combinations or ambushes.

    Dual classing is really more if you just want a single class with one or two benefits from the starting class.

    Abbreviations, I think:

    G0B = globe of blades
    HP = holy power
    RM = righteous magic
    B/C = ??
    sp = skill points
    AerakarLoldrup
  • AerakarAerakar Member Posts: 1,016
    @KramerTheWeird if my fading mid-40s memory serves correctly, in early D&D classes were more for humans and demi-human races were like classes themselves, e.g. you played a Wizard, Warrior, Cleric, Thief, Elf, Halfling, Dwarf. 1st and 2nd AD&D editions introduced the class basics we use in BG.

    In AD&D multiclass characters were only allowed with the demi-human races and I believe also based on the previous earlier edition racial stereotypes, e.g. Halflings were part fighter and thief, so only have those options to multi-class, Elves had an affinity for magic and certain weaponry so they have additional multi-class options connected to wizardry, etc. Humans could dual-class and basically choose a 2nd career, but they could not multi-class.

    I would guess the thinking was that racial affinities allow certain permanent multiple class specializations that are not open to everyone without those racial affinities. This also had the benefit of making races more or less attractive depending upon player preferences and original die roles for ability scores, as one had to qualify for races and classes if rules were strictly followed. One can fault the logic, e.g. why no Halfling cleric/thieves, but it was what it was and players adapted accordingly to the rules-enforced stereotypes, more or less.

    The system became much more flexible in later versions of D&D, i.e. 3rd edition and later, as players could combine classes with or without penalties, allowing much more creativity in designing character ideas.

    That being said, I grew up on 1 edition AD&D and this remains my preference and what I consider D&D. I played Neverwinter Nights for years and liked it, but my heart was and is still with AD&D (and BG!), even if I bend the class rules regularly with EEKeeper.
    DJKajuruKramerTheWeirdSscoootzZ
  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,768

    This reminds me, @subtledoctor were you going to code up a permanent Cleric thief button weidu thing based on @Dee 's code? Possibly with @Mr2150 s input..

    I asked about it, and it seems like Dee's solution is not Weidu-izable. I needs edits to UI.menu IIRC, which cannot be modified by Weidu.

    Either the next version of Weidu, or the next version of the game, might liberalize things a bit. But, I'm not holding my breath. :(
    @subtledoctor , have you looked at @AncientCowboy 's UI.menu abstraction. It allows you to edit UI.menu with WeiDu, though I don't know to what extent. He uses it in his UI tweaks collection
  • 10Bazza1110Bazza11 Member Posts: 169
    I had great fun playing a Half Orc Cleric/Thief a very good all rounder however I was unable to kill the Greater Wolfwere on the island, I got a bit bored after that and left her at the beginning of Durlag's Tower. I might go back to her now as it really was a fun class to play.
    AerakarKramerTheWeird
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  • KramerTheWeirdKramerTheWeird Member Posts: 14
    @loldrup what @sluckers said, plus b/c = because, sorry for being lazy :)

    Winry, my Cleric/Thief, is 2/3 now and having fun already. Just rescued Dyanheir and off to Nashkel Mines! Very flexible class.. can offtank with extra saves and heavier armor, and also a not-so-squishy scout which saved her butt a few times, throwing a command and sanctuary when stealth failed. Can't wait for DUHM!
    [Deleted User]Aerakar10Bazza11
  • JumboWheat01JumboWheat01 Member Posts: 1,028
    And the thing is, being a cleric/thief REALLY opens up the party a lot. You've got heals and mechanical skills covered, you no longer need to "drag" around another NPC just for that.
    [Deleted User]AerakarKramerTheWeird
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