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Anyone Playing Grim Dawn?

wraith5641wraith5641 Member Posts: 500
I got the early access version last year, and I played it for a bit then. I put it down for a while because I wanted to wait until the full release. The full version came out a couple of weeks ago and I must admit, I'm addicted. Whenever I've had free time this week I've gone straight onto GD. The game is pretty awesome, and puts D3 to shame.

Anyone else having fun with it?

Comments

  • wraith5641wraith5641 Member Posts: 500
    edited March 2016
    OK, so originally I had accidentally posted this in the Italian Off-Topic section. Oops!

    Anyways, yes. I'm still having lots of fun with this game. It has a very deep, but easy to understand progression system that constantly keeps you involved. Definitely my favorite ARPG so far.
  • SethDavisSethDavis Member Posts: 1,812
    oooo, neat. I'll have to give that a shot when I get bored of Path of Exile.
  • wraith5641wraith5641 Member Posts: 500
    edited March 2016
    @SethDavis Some of the developers that made Titan Quest were involved with Grim Dawn. It plays similar in a lot of ways, and has a mastery system like TQ, but Grim Dawn made a lot of improvements. You won't be disappointed at all.

    It's funny you mentioned Path of Exile, because I just went back to it yesterday. I started a brand new game with the Marauder because I saw the new Ascendancy sub-classes. Juggernaut ftw! :)
  • SethDavisSethDavis Member Posts: 1,812
    I never quite got the hang of TQ, always felt a bit too squishy... maybe shouldn't have gone for all summoning
  • wraith5641wraith5641 Member Posts: 500
    @SethDavis Summons suck until you get to the higher difficulty levels when they get a huge damage and HP boost. Whenever I played with a summoner, I always reallocated my points on normal difficulty after Act 2 and got rid of my summons in favor of AoE damage spells.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    I love the idea of Titan Quest and Grim Dawn and own both. They both just bog down in repetitive slogs for what seems like hrs. You fight crows and satyrs for a massive first part of Titan Quest. Grim Dawn has the same problem. There is no real enemy variation, as they are constantly situated in bundles in specific areas.

    On top of that, while the class and skill system SEEMS really great, it doesn't play out in practice. Half of them are useless, and even more than most ARPGs, you are usually spamming two skills, and anything else is beyond sub-optimal.

    The genre itself is just played out. It's peak (and maybe only redeeming point) was Diablo 1 and 2. Sacred 1 and 2 at least added an open world aspect. But Torchlight and Titan Quest/Grim Dawn just seem like loot slot machines more than games. At least Diablo 3 has a fast-pace and gameplay elements developed over the years that make you actually want to progress in the game, and Path of Exile has some great ideas even though it's essentially a MMO ARPG.

    There isn't anywhere else for this genre to go. In the end, for all the crappie it got at launch, D3 ended up being the best of this erase simply because it's more fun and flows better.
  • wraith5641wraith5641 Member Posts: 500
    @jjstraka34 D3 has a very low skill ceiling. The problem with D3 is that it is TOO easy and TOO simplified, to the point where monsters are basically just punching bags. There is no real incentive to "build" a character of your own because the best choices are made clear as day for you. It gives you the illusion of progress, when in reality, you're just traveling on a tram towards the end of the game. It looks pretty and the combat feels responsive and fun, but it's all a deceptive facade, covering the real face of a vacuous narcissist with an ugly personality. If you like superficial hack 'n' slash experiences, then it's perfectly fine for you. You're just not going to get the depth that is available in other titles of the ARPG genre.

    Grim Dawn is not a game for casuals of the genre. You have to remember that it started as a Kickstarter project, and the funding for it came primarily from hardcore fans of the genre, most probably the same people that have helped keep PoE alive. This means a few things:

    - Lots and lots of loot, but few rare items, or even useful items
    - Components to improve loot, requiring a lot of grinding to find
    - A complex skill system that relies on subtlety rather than putting on a spectacle
    - Large, confusing maps that force the player to explore and invest time in doing quests
    - Mathematics
    - Class depth and replayability

    These are points that hardcore players absolutely expect with no compromises. This is because anything less would basically be Diablo 3, and the reason the likes of GD and PoE were popular in the first place was because they AREN'T D3. These games gave frustrated hardcore players a chance to really test their mettle in a game which requires a lot of time and thought to be rewarded. They make those playing them feel as though they deserve to be powerful because it actually took their own initiative to carve out a character that is worthy of being so.

    Yes, it takes a lot of time and slogging it out with the same enemies over and over again. As BG players, it's hard to come out of the mindset of constantly being faced with epic battles and always being entertained by monsters, so when we switch to playing ARPGs, we realize how much we take those battles for granted when we rack up the same amount of kills as the whole BG trilogy in 3 hours. BG is a pure RPG, and the monsters and battles play a part in telling a story. The monsters and bosses themselves have depth, and lore that is told even outside of the game. The stories of some of the NPCs are more memorable than Charname's. In ARPGs, monsters are just there to make you look like a god. The game is about you, and the monsters are all expendable. Grim Dawn forces you to earn your godly status by mowing down armies. If you can hit the real heights of the game, that's where the fun starts. That's where you are fighting demigods as a demigod. That's where being overpowered feels extremely satisfying, because it took you so long to get there. If you are not willing to put in the time to get to that point, then yes, Diablo 3 would be more suited to you. If you're willing to grind it out and really put in the time to building a character, the late game is highly enjoyable.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    @wraith5641 , I am a huge Titan Quest fan, and I still play it sometimes. Before I got on my most recent kick of playing Icewind Dale, I played several gaming weeks' worth of good old TQ.

    I had had to get a new computer since the last time I played, which meant I had to start my collection of rare items all over in my TQ Vault. That's kind of a good thing, as building my collection in TQ Vault was always half the fun for me. (What a great user-created utility, by the way, one of the best ever community add-ons for a game.)

    So, I expect I would probably like Grim Dawn, and I'm sure I'll play it eventually. I didn't know the final version was available now.

    I'll plan on getting it as soon as I get a character through Siege of Dragonspear and get tired of my current phase of playing Infinity Engine games.
  • MoradinMoradin Member Posts: 372
    I used to play D3 till last year, I used to frequent the forums as well. Not anymore. D3 is nice for about 2 weeks after each patch has been released. After that you get really bored and play just because you're waiting for something more interesting to come around.
    I have never played Grim Dawn, but I just yesterday watched a comparison on youtube between D3 and GD. It looks like GD has a pretty good replayability, something D3 really lacks; the skill tree is definitely better than Diablo's, which was likely designed by and for toddlers. all in all, I have to agree with @wraith5641 , D3 is too simple and too easy. The endgame looks exactly like at the beginning, only monsters are tougher. Not smarter or "better equipped", they just have a higher number of HPs. That's it.

    I would probably give Grim Dawn a try, if I wasn't going to spend the next few months on Siege of Dragonspear.
  • wraith5641wraith5641 Member Posts: 500
    edited April 2016
    I am also a big Titan Quest fan. I was introduced to it on these forums last year, actually. I fell in love with it when I started playing. I have an interest in Ancient Greece and Greek mythology, so I knew it would appeal to me. It took a bit of getting used to, though. The mastery system is more complex than it comes across as. You have to get the synergy between masteries right if you don't want to be constantly frustrated by overpowered monsters. I did my first run as a dual-wield Assassin, and I lost count of how many times I reallocated my points. I find that it takes a full run through before you finally get the hang of it. I would recommend that anyone picking up the likes of TQ, GD, or PoE give them lots of time before you put them down again.
  • wraith5641wraith5641 Member Posts: 500
    @BelgarathMTH Lol Coincidentally, you were part of the thread that introduced me to it. So thanks a lot :)


    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/41225/should-i-download-diablo-2/p2
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Again, resurrecting a thread since I started playing both this (and Path of Exile) on a solid laptop. And holy crap, Grim Dawn is JUST as good as Path of Exile is. I loved the IDEA of Titan Quest and it's skill trees, but the game was a total slog in terms of pacing and repetition, and the quests were just "meh" (but Titan Quest has been given an Enhanced Edition within the last month that supposedly adds a ton of new content and fixes, so who knows).

    But the fact is, at this point, Titan Quest just served as a template for Grim Dawn, which takes it's basic concept (Dual Mastery determining your class) and just takes off and never looks back. If Path of Exile can lay claim to Diablo 2's legendary online and trading component, Grim Dawn may be the first ARPG that actually feels like a GENUINE single-player RPG experience and not just a loot parade (but there is plenty of that as well). Side quests, hidden quests, Faction systems with reputation gating rewards, multitudes of options of augmenting gear and crafting, and a totally solid Victorian Apocalyptic Lovecraft vibe.

    Anyway, both this game and Path of Exile are pretty much the apex of the ARPG design. The leave Diablo 3 in the dust at this point now that they've been totally fleshed out, and certainly Torchlight 2 as well. I'd even go so far as to say they may be better than Diablo 2 itself, though it's a bit hard for me to think anything should ever take the #1 spot in the genre from that game. But in 2016, I'd certainly rather be playing either of these.
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,108
    Grim Dawn is the teaser game for the Humble Monthly Bundle this month, so you can get it for the next week or so for $12 (plus the other games in the monthly bundle when those are released).

    I've not played very far into Grim Dawn, but it was fun.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Waiting for it to be reduced on Steam.

    Have enjoyed Titan Quest EE, but found myself with a build that kicked butt all the way through but was useless against the final boss!
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,108
    Here's the Humble Monthly Bundle link.

    @Fardragon That happened to me too with Titan Quest. I've been trying other builds but haven't played any of them to the final boss.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850

    Here's the Humble Monthly Bundle link.

    @Fardragon That happened to me too with Titan Quest. I've been trying other builds but haven't played any of them to the final boss.

    Titan Quest is just, idk....it's got great ideas, but the actual gameplay is SO repetitious and SO slow. They took alot of time making Grim Dawn, and it shows. It takes all of Titan Quests basic themes (mainly the inventory and the dual-mastery/class system) and then just kept adding things. Titan Quest is perhaps the most plain, vanilla game I've ever played. It's a bit like drinking warm water. Fine if nothing else is available, but once you have an ice cube tray and access to a freezer, why would you ever do it again??
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,108
    edited September 2016
    Because I find the build diversity enjoyable and I love Greek mythology. I also don't find it particularly slow. It's definitely more enjoyable than a warm glass of water.

    I don't really approach things as "There must be a BEST and a WORST and I will only ever play the BEST." I like most ARPGs about the same - I mean I like some more than others, but I enjoy all but one that I've ever played and I can't even remember the name of the one I didn't like. All I remember is that it was science fiction and basically had the same three classes as Diablo.

    I can live with enjoying both Titan Quest and Grim Dawn just like I could live with enjoying Diablo and Diablo II. That's the thing about subjective judgments like "It's a bit like drinking warm water." Your subjective judgments work great for you, but they don't apply to everyone - and everyone else has their own subjective experience to draw from. Your experiences are not universal.

    I mean by all means, Grim Dawn is a good game and worth recommending, but why have a go at people for playing a game you've deemed unworthy? What is the point?
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited September 2016
    No they certainly don't apply to everyone, it's just how I've felt about Titan Quest for awhile now. I was over the moon when I finally got the game on Steam years ago, I just found it insanely repetitive and slow (and that's taking into account that one of the MOST important aspects of a good ARPG is a comfortable sense of repetition). Anyway, I have heard alot of good things about the Enhanced Edition that just came out, free to anyone who owned the old one. It kind of just descended out of nowhere and appeared one day.

    I myself also used to love Greek mythology, though as I've gotten older for some reasons I've been less inclined towards it and more drawn to sword and sorcery, dark fantasy, and Lovecraftian themes as time has gone on. Ultimately, I think Titan Quest's main problem is that it's first act is so repetitive from an enemy standpoint (satyrs, then satyrs, then hordes of more satyrs). The game is gorgeous (STILL even in this day and age, and it's been around a long while) and I have nothing but praise for the dual-mastery system. I just don't think it's paced particularly well.
    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,108
    That's certainly a fair assessment.

    I don't mind fighting all those satyrs, or the undead, or the harpies - although I think that's the extent of enemies in Act I?

    Probably not relevant in this thread because it's about Grim Dawn, which is a really good game in its own right and it is fair to say that the devs applied lessons learned when they made Titan Quest.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited September 2016
    I would give Titan Quest bonus points for being educational.

    As for Titan Quest being slow, I think that depends a lot on your build. I tried several, and stuck with the one that tore through Act One like butter, but then proved useless against the end boss.

    There are centaurs, spiders, boars, crows, demons, ant men, gorgons and a cyclops in Act One. (although I have only played the enhanced version so they may be new).
    Post edited by Fardragon on
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,108
    No, none of those are new as far as I can tell.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    edited September 2016
    I still haven't tried the new version of Titan Quest to see what's new. That's another one for my increasingly growing list of old games I want to revisit during the next year.

    I got distracted from my Grim Dawn warrior I was working on, and didn't finish my first run through veteran level. (There's a toggle that lets you skip normal and go straight to veteran.) I still want to go back and finish it, though.

    Path of Exile kind of lost me when they changed the game for the umpteenth time and reset my main character. I had no idea how to respend all those points, or what I had been doing before. I might play it again and restart a similar character from level one, eventually. Reading back over my old posts in "The Other PoE" thread, I was clearly really enjoying the game at that time.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited September 2016
    Grim Dawn is $12.50 on GOG right now, and is a real steal at that price. Hell, it was a good deal when I bought it in Alpha for $25. Aside from the quality of the game, the reason it had such a long development cycle was because it was made by six people, which is insane. They deserve the support.

    I also agree with Belgarath that it's wise to start the game on Veteran. I have never played an ARPG that had even a remote level of difficulty on normal mode. D2 is a mostly a joke on normal, Path of Exile is a joke on normal, you could go on and on. There is very little challenge in the genre until the intermediate and late difficulty levels where (typically) resistances for both the player character and the enemies start to come into play.
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