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Warrior Monk Mod (Version 1.06) for BG1:EE. Final version (I hope).

BCaesarBCaesar Member Posts: 453
edited January 2017 in BG:EE Mods
Hello everyone,
The goal of this mod is to balance monks to make them useful as front-line warriors from level 1, and then in exchange balance the later levels by taking away many of their high-level abilities. Also I gave them more weapon use, modeled after the Shaolin Warrior Monks (hence the mod name).

There are two mods attached to this post. The one labeled Post-2.0 is the normal one to use if you have the latest version of Baldur's Gate 1: EE (or any version 2.0 or after). The other one labeled Pre-2.0 is if you have an earlier version than BG1:EE 2.0.

The two mods are almost identical except that the pre-2.0 mod doesn't have character animations for non-human monks (since those files aren't compatible with BG1:EE before 2.0). You can make non-human monks, but they all look human. In the post-2.0 mod there are character animations for all the non-human monks since BG1:EE 2.0 allows me to easily mod that. Also the pre-2.0 mod overwrites profs.2da entirely as the WeiDU edit that worked for the post 2.0 mod wouldn't work for the pre-2.0 mod (and since the only BG1EE I have is post 2.0 I can't check it to figure out why).

For either mod you install it by extracting it to the folder that has chitin.key, which for me I can find in the following place: C: Program Files (x86)/Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition/Data/00766/
And then you run the installer (Setup-WarriorMonkMod). The class description file isn't important for the mod, it's just for you to read to have a reference for what the mod changes.

If you notice any bugs or have any suggestions please post them in this thread. A final note is this mod isn't finished for the SoD expansion yet. So if you play SoD it might still work in most cases, except that if there are new creatures or new items that weren't in BG1:EE they will not be modified (so if there's some new magic axe type in SoD that wasn't in BG1:EE the monks won't be able to use it).


MOD SUMMARY
The Warrior Monk Mod gives Monks the following benefits (relative to their normal abilities in BG1:EE)
1) Reduced starting Armor Class from 9 to 5 (same as Chain Mail). Also made monks' AC lower by 1 point every 2 levels through level 50 like it says in their class description. Previously monks only followed their class description to level 18, after that their AC went down by 1 every 3 levels until level 30 and then by 1 every five levels until 40.

2) A 5% resistance to crushing damage and an additional 1% resistance every level after.

3) Monks now use Barbarian hit-dice instead of Cleric hit-dice (they still only gain a maximum of +2 hit-points per level from their CON bonus though).

4) They gain +1 DEX at levels 5, 20, 35, and 50. They gain +1 CON at levels 10, 25, and 40. They gain +1 WIS at levels 15, 30, and 45.

5) They gain more weapon proficiency points (5 at first level with an additional point every 2 levels).

6) They can now use all melee weapons along with all weapon styles (except shields).

7) They can still only be proficient (1 point) with a weapon or style at level 1, but now they may specialize starting at level 6, and may master weapon styles starting at level 9 (the 3rd point in single weapon style or 2-handed weapon style gives an additional 1 point bonus to AC).

8) Monks can now also be of True Neutral, Neutral Good, and Neutral Evil alignments (Sun Soul Monks can still only be good and Dark Moon monks can still only be evil).

9) They can now be of any race (the mod uses Cleric animations for non-human races).

10) Monks gain the Detect Illusion ability and gain more thief points (24 points per level).


The Mod Also Reduces the Monks Abilities in the Following Ways:
1) They are no longer immune to Disease at level 5.

2) They are no longer immune to slow at level 5.

3) They no longer gain a +2 movement bonus at start and +1 every five levels.

4) They no longer gain a +1 AC bonus against missile weapons every three levels.

5) They no longer gain immunity to charm at level 9.

6) They no longer get 42% magic resistance at level 14 and 3% every level after.

7) They no longer gain immunity to normal weapons at level 20.

8) They can no longer use any missile weapons (They could use dart, throwing dagger, and sling before).

9) They get -1 to CHR at levels 10, 25, and 40.

10) They can no longer find traps.


And The Warrior Monk Mod leaves the Following things Unchanged:
1) Monks can still fight unarmed, with the same bonuses and damage.

2) Monks still gain the same saving throw, speed, and immunity to poison bonuses.

3) Monks and their kits still have the same special abilities (Lay on Hands, Quivering Palm, etc.)



MODDING DETAILS:
For those of you who care about the modding details here's here's how I made each change:

1) Gave Monks a starting AC of five instead of their normal value of 9. I created _BSC822.SPL as a copy of SPCL822.SPL but with the AC values all 4 points lower, and then I replaced SPCL822.SPL in the three CLABMO.2DA tables. I also made it continue going up by two levels all the way to level 50 so it matched what it said in the class description, since SPCL822.SPL did that only until level 18 and then it started slowing down).

2) Gave monks a 5% resistance to crushing damage at level 1 and 1% after that. I created _BSC812.SPL to add 5% crushing resistance and _BSC819.SPL to add 1% crushing resistance and put them both in the right places in the three CLABMO0.2DA files.

3) Gave monks the same hitdice as Barbarians (however they still just have a maximum +2 Con bonus). I added the following to my WeiDU tp2 file:
COPY_EXISTING ~hpclass.2da~ ~override~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 46 1 1 ~HPBARB~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 47 1 1 ~HPBARB~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 48 1 1 ~HPBARB~

4) Gave Monks +1 point to Dexterity at level 5, +1 point to CON and -1 point to CHR at level 10, and +1 point to WIS at level 5. Then at level 20 the whole thing repeats with +1 point to DEX again. I created _BSC813.SPL to give bonus to DEX, and created _BSC823.SPL and _BSC.SPL to give the bonus to CON and penalty to CHR, and the bonus to WIS. Then put them all in the right places in the CLABMO.2da files.

5) Removed monks' immunity to haste, disease and slow at level 5. Removed AP_SPCL814 from the three CLABMO.2DA files.

6) Removed the +2 to movement and +1 every five levels bonus. I removed SPCL813.SPL from the 3 CLABMO.2DA tables.

7) Removed monks' Deflect Missile bonus (+1 to AC against missile weapons every three levels). I created _BSC817.SPL to add a 1 point penalty to missile weapons and put it every three levels in the CLABMO.2DA files.

8) Removed monks' immunity to charm at level 9. I removed SPCL817.SPL from the 3 CLABMO.2dA tables.

9) Previously monks got a 42% magic resistance at level 14 and 3% after that. I removed that. I removed SPCL819 from the three CLABMO.2da tables.

10) I removed monks' immunity to normal weapons that they used to get at level 20. I removed AP_SPCL821 from the 3 CLABMO.2DA files.

11) I removed monks' ability to use any missile weapons (dart, throwing dagger, and sling) so they had no choice but to melee. In the ITM folder if I click on an item and then click on the 'Edit' tab at the top the 8th line down under that tab says "Unusable by" and I can check or uncheck boxes if I select that.

12) I gave Monks 5 weapon proficiency points at start with a gain of one more every two levels. I added the following to my WeiDU tp2 file:
COPY_EXISTING ~profs.2da~ ~override~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 22 1 1 ~5~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 22 2 1 ~2~

For my pre-2.0 version I just overwrote the whole file using Near Infinity to give monks a First level of 5 and a rate of 2.

13 & 14) Allowed Monks to place a maximum of 2 weapon proficiency points for all Melee weapons, but no shields or missile weapons. However I wanted monks to only be able to use 1 weapon point max at level one per specialization until level 6. I allowed monks to place a 3rd point in weapon styles starting at level 9. The 3rd point in single weapon and 2-handed weapon styles give an additional 1 point bonus to AC. I added the following to my WeiDU tp2 file:

APPEND ~stylbonu.2da~ ~SINGLEWEAPON-3 0 0 0 0 -3 0 0 1~
APPEND ~stylbonu.2da~ ~TWOHANDED-3 1 0 0 0 -1 0 -4 1~

COPY_EXISTING ~profsmax.2da~ ~override~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 22 1 1 ~1~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 22 2 1 ~1~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 22 3 1 ~1~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 22 4 1 ~2~

COPY_EXISTING ~weapprof.2da~ ~override~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 3 51 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 4 51 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 6 51 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 7 51 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 8 51 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 9 51 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 10 51 1 ~0~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 11 51 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 12 51 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 13 51 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 14 51 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 15 51 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 16 51 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 17 51 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 18 51 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 19 51 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 20 51 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 21 51 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 22 51 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 23 51 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 24 51 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 25 51 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 29 51 1 ~0~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 30 51 1 ~0~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 31 51 1 ~3~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 33 51 1 ~3~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 34 51 1 ~3~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 3 58 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 4 58 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 6 58 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 7 58 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 8 58 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 9 58 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 10 58 1 ~0~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 11 58 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 12 58 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 13 58 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 14 58 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 15 58 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 16 58 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 17 58 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 18 58 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 19 58 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 20 58 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 21 58 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 22 58 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 23 58 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 24 58 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 25 58 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 29 58 1 ~0~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 30 58 1 ~0~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 31 58 1 ~3~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 33 58 1 ~3~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 34 58 1 ~3~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 3 59 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 4 59 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 6 59 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 7 59 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 8 59 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 9 59 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 10 59 1 ~0~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 11 59 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 12 59 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 13 59 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 14 59 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 15 59 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 16 59 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 17 59 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 18 59 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 19 59 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 20 59 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 21 59 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 22 59 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 23 59 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 24 59 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 25 59 1 ~2~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 29 59 1 ~0~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 30 59 1 ~0~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 31 59 1 ~3~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 33 59 1 ~3~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 34 59 1 ~3~

15) Edited every melee item to allow monks to use it and removed the ability for monks to use any missile items. In the ITM folder if I click on an item and then click on the 'Edit' tab at the top the 8th line down under that tab says "Unusable by" and I can check or uncheck boxes if I select that.

16) I allowed Monks to be of all non-chaotic alignments. I added the following to my WeiDU tp2 file:
COPY_EXISTING ~alignmnt.2da~ ~override~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 51 4 1 ~1~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 59 4 1 ~1~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 51 5 1 ~1~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 51 6 1 ~1~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 58 6 1 ~1~

17) Allowed Monks and Kits to be all races and got them the proper animations.
First I added the Cleric animations for the non-human monks. I found files 6500.INI (Monk Male Human) and 6510.INI (Monk Female Human). I made five copies of each (numbered 6501.INI through 6505.INI for male, and 6511.INI through 6515.INI for female) and changed the name of one copy to Monk_Male_Elf, one copy to Monk_Male_Dwarf, etc. until I had one copy for the 5 non-human races for male and 5 non-human races for female. Half-Elves just look like Elves. Then I found the 5 files for those races for Cleric_Male (6001.INI through 6005.INI) and the 5 files for those races for Cleric_Female (6011.INI through 6015.INI). I copied the contents of each file (except for the name at the top) and pasted them into each new Monk file of the same name. So I replaced the contents of 6501: Monk_Male_Elf with the contents of file 6001: Cleric_Male_Elf.

Then I added the following files (all copies of K_MN_H.2da): K_MN_D.2da, K_MN_E.2da, K_MN_G.2da, K_MN_HE.2da, K_MN_HL.2da, and K_MN_HO.2da). Then I added the following to my WeiDU tp2 file:
COPY_EXISTING ~clsrcreq.2da~ ~override~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 57 2 1 ~1~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 57 3 1 ~1~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 57 4 1 ~1~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 57 5 1 ~1~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 57 6 1 ~1~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 57 7 1 ~1~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 59 2 1 ~1~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 59 3 1 ~1~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 59 4 1 ~1~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 59 5 1 ~1~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 59 6 1 ~1~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 59 7 1 ~1~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 60 2 1 ~1~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 60 3 1 ~1~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 60 4 1 ~1~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 60 5 1 ~1~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 60 6 1 ~1~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 60 7 1 ~1~

18) I removed find traps and gave all monks detect Illusion instead. I put this in my WeiDU tp2 file:
COPY_EXISTING ~thiefscl.2da~ ~override~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 5 48 1 ~0~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 5 52 1 ~0~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 5 56 1 ~0~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 8 48 1 ~100~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 8 52 1 ~100~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 8 56 1 ~100~

19) I gave Monks more points to apply to thief skills each level. I put this in my WeiDU tp2 file:
COPY_EXISTING ~thiefskl.2da~ ~override~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 8 1 1 ~24~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 8 2 1 ~24~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 9 1 1 ~24~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 9 2 1 ~24~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 10 1 1 ~24~
SET_2DA_ENTRY 10 2 1 ~24~

20) I edited creature stats to make Rasaad (when he's not in your party) and the Dark Moon Monks have the right hit points, armor class, and abilities for their levels reflecting the new changes by editing the RASAAD and RSDMNK creature files in the CRE folder.

And then lastly I left everything else in place, including all their unarmed combat bonuses and abilities. This way the monks are still skilled unarmed fighters when they need to be but they're happy to use weapons when they have them. Their normal speed/save bonuses and immunity to poison they still have.

Once I finished that I changed the class and kit descriptions using my tp2 file and a .tra file in WeiDU. That process is too long to write here, but if you're making a mod and want to know how to do it just message me and I'll walk you through it and/or answer any questions you have.

Thank you.

-----------------------------
Changes from 1.05 to 1.06
Used Weidu to append lines to Stylebonu.2da instead of overwriting it.
Changed the pre-2.0 mod back to overwriting profs.2da instead of using WeiDu to edit it since it wasn't working (and I only have post2.0 BG1 so I can't check and see why).

This should be my last version barring any more bugs.

Change for 1.061 Pre-2.0 - Fixed a bug with profsmax.2da. Now that file is overwritten instead of edited in the tp2 file (same as profs.2da), since the WeiDU edit that worked with the latest version of BG1:EE wouldn't work with the pre-2.0 version.

----------------------------
Changes from 1.04 to 1.05

Instead of overwriting WEAPPROF.2DA entirely I just edit it using my WeiDU tp2 file which will increase the compatibility of this mod with other mods.
I no longer overwrite any .SPL files. Now I create entirely new ones to edit the Monk abilities and they all start with _B which is my modding prefix, so that should also increase compatibility.

These changes don't affect game-play.

Change for 1.051
I just realized I had accidentally copied some extra files into my mod folder. Those have been deleted now. The readme and other documents still just say 1.05 since I'm probably going to have a 1.06 in the next few days.

-----------------------------------------------------
Changes from 1.03 to 1.04.

I changed how I set up the skills using WeiDU to fix some bugs which made my pre-2.0 version work again (the 1.03 version stopped working).
I also made .tra files and put the kit descriptions there rather than in my .tp2 file.
Lastly I added a read-me which has all the same information as in this thread.

These changes don't actually change any of the game-play.

-------------------------------------------------------
Changes 1.02 to 1.03.

Special thanks to subtledoctor for showing me how to use WeiDU to make these changes.

- No longer overwrites file KITTABLE.2DA. Instead there are six new files: K_MN_D.2DA, K_MN_E.2DA, K_MN_G.2DA, K_MN_HE.2DA, K_MN_HL.2DA, and K_MN_HO.2DA.

- No longer overwrites files Alignmnt.2da, CLSRCREQ.2DA, HPCLASS.2DA , PROFS.2DA, PROFSMAX.2DA, THIEFSCL.2DA, THIEFSKL.2DA. Instead it makes edits to those files using WeiDU

- Used WeiDU to edit the Monk, Dark Moon Monk, and Sun Soul Monk class/kit descriptions to reflect the changes made by this mod.

- These changes don’t change gameplay but they make this mod more compatible with other mods than version 1.02 was.
------------------------------------------------
Changes 1.01 to 1.02
Edited PROFSMAX.2DA and THIEFSKL.2DA

- Fixed weapon proficiency progression so Monks cannot specialize until level 6
- Fixed Dark Moon and Sun Soul Monks to have the same thief points as Monks (24 per level).
- Made into an actual WeiDU mod with an installer and everything!

-------------------------------------------
Changes 1.00 to 1.01

Special thanks to GrimLefourbe for telling me how to open a tp2 file and Ratatoskr589 for testing it.

Edited all three CLABMO.2da files, PROFSMAX.2DA, STYLBONU.2DA, THIEFSKL.2DA, WEAPONPROF.2DA
Edited SPCL813.SPL and created SPCL823.SPL and SPCL824.SPL
Edited all .CRE files.

- Monks now allowed only one point on each weapon or weapon style until level 6 when they may apply a second point. May now place a 3rd point on weapon styles at level 9. 3rd point on 1H fighting style or 2H fighting style gives an additional 1 point bonus to Armor Class.

- Monks now only have 24 thief skill points to start (instead of 40) and 24 a level (instead of 25).

- Instead of +1 DEX/CON/WIS at level 1 and at every 5 levels now only have a stat gain every five levels as follows: Level 5: +1 DEX, Level 10: +1 CON/-1CHR, Level 15: +1 WIS, Level 20: +1 DEX (repeat).

- Edited Rasaad and Dark Moon Monk creature files to reflect new values.
Post edited by BCaesar on

Comments

  • GrimLefourbeGrimLefourbe Member Posts: 637
    Have you tried monks of every races? I think there used to be issues with character animations only being in human type. (You only meet humans monks in game)

    I like the idea otherwise, i'm not sure how balanced it is but I agree that the current monk doesn't deliver with his fists. I think you should be careful not to make it too similar to the kensai.
  • BCaesarBCaesar Member Posts: 453
    GrimLefourbe said:

    Have you tried monks of every races? I think there used to be issues with character animations only being in human type. (You only meet humans monks in game)

    I like the idea otherwise, i'm not sure how balanced it is but I agree that the current monk doesn't deliver with his fists. I think you should be careful not to make it too similar to the kensai.

    Yeah, the monks will still have their unarmed combat in case they find themselves without a weapon or like their fists better. It's just now they can use weapons too. I did want to keep them different from Kensai, but I figure they aren't warriors, they can't use Helmets or Shields, and they don't have the Kai ability. So that's enough for me. I've never tried playing with a Kensai anyways.

    Oh I forgot to mention I haven't figured out how to have animations for the other races yet. I figure maybe I can use warrior animations if there's a way to change that.

    Also I changed the Monks hitdice to be the same as barbarians.
  • BCaesarBCaesar Member Posts: 453
    GrimLefourbe said:

    Have you tried monks of every races? I think there used to be issues with character animations only being in human type. (You only meet humans monks in game)

    I like the idea otherwise, i'm not sure how balanced it is but I agree that the current monk doesn't deliver with his fists. I think you should be careful not to make it too similar to the kensai.

    I just figured out how to add animations for the other races for Monk!

    To do this I had to delve into my INI Folder. I found files 6500.INI (Monk Male Human) and 6510.INI (Monk Female Human). I made five copies of each (numbered 6501.INI through 6505.INI for male, and 6511.INI through 6515.INI for female) and changed the name of one copy to Monk_Male_Elf, one copy to Monk_Male_Dwarf, etc. until I had one copy for the 5 non-human races for male and 5 non-human races for female. Half-Elves just look like Elves. Then I found the 5 files for those races for Cleric_Male (6001.INI through 6005.INI) and the 5 files for those races for Cleric_Female (6011.INI through 6015.INI). I copied the contents of each file (except for the name at the top) and pasted them into each new Monk file of the same name. So I replaced the contents of 6501: Monk_Male_Elf with the contents of file 6001: Cleric_Male_Elf.

    Tested it by creating new characters in game and it works!

    Also I decided to allow Monks only 3 weapon proficiency points max per weapon and gave them only one point max at level 1. So they're proficient at many more weapons that fighters (including Kensai) but can't get as good with a single weapon type.
  • BCaesarBCaesar Member Posts: 453
    Ok I figured out how to modify the Kit/Class description and also how to edit the weapons to allow Monks to use them. (I haven't finished making all of those changes yet, but I know how now).

    So the only thing I still need to figure out is how to remove the Monks' Deflect Missiles ability (+1 bonus to AC against missile attacks every 3 levels). I thought it would be in the CLABMO*.2DA files but it doesn't seem to be.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited December 2016
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • GrimLefourbeGrimLefourbe Member Posts: 637
    I think the main difference here is that kensai focus on 1 weapon while he's more trying to have his monk branch into multiple possible weapons. It does seem similar outside of that but I see it mainly as an attempt to make the monk class less useless at the beginning of the game.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • BCaesarBCaesar Member Posts: 453
    edited December 2016
    subtledoctor said:

    BCaesar said:

    I did want to keep them different from Kensai, but I figure they aren't warriors, ...

    Um, they have fighter thac0, d12 hit dice, more weapon proficiencies than a fighter, faster proficiency advancement than a fighter... if they're not warriors what are they??

    Honestly this whole project sounds like you're designing a variant of the Kensai. If you start with the Kensai as a base, all of these weapon-related superpowers would make a bit more sense, and it would be easier to allow other races to use the kit, and they could use 2-handed weapons. You could still call it a "Shaolin Master" or something.

    The "monk" class in this game is definitely NOT meant to replicate Shaolin monks. BG monks are oriented to Forgotten Realms religions, and are designed completely around the preference for unarmed fighting over weapon-based combat. Why change that?
    Basically they are warriors, but I wanted to modify the monk over making a kit since the whole point is to change Rasaad as well to make him (and all monks) useful in BG1 at lower levels, and the way I'm changing them it seemed easier to change the monk than to add a fighter Kit and change Rasaad to that. I already found an easy way to allow all races to be monks (just add new INI files and copy the animations from the Cleric files. Took 5 minutes to do once I figured it out).

    As far as I can tell they don't actually have any weapon-related superpowers. They only get 3 proficiency points max instead of five and only can put one point on a single weapon at level 1. They only get a max +2 from Constitution so they'll have equal hitpoints with a fighter with CON 18. So they're similar to warriors but they can use more weapons with fewer proficiency points whereas warriors can apply more points to a single weapon. They also can't use armors, helmets, shields, or missile weapons all of which fighters can use. Balance-wise I'm trying to make them usable like front-line warriors even though they don't have armor, since without missile weapons that's all they can do.

    The short answer to "Why change that?" is "Because I want to." I realize that BG monks have D&D lore behind them but all D&D classes pull their ideas from the real world, and I'm saying it always seemed like whoever added the Monk to 2nd edition D&D got this idea by watching Hong Kong kung fu movies and not noticing that the monks could also use weapons. But you're allowed to disagree. My sister already said, "Finally, no more squishy Rasaad in BG1." and asked for a copy when I'm done so at least two people like the mod (her and me). If no one else wants to install it that's fine, but given how many people have written on these boards saying they found Rasaad completely useless in BG1 I'm thinking some might.
  • BCaesarBCaesar Member Posts: 453
    GrimLefourbe said:

    I think the main difference here is that kensai focus on 1 weapon while he's more trying to have his monk branch into multiple possible weapons. It does seem similar outside of that but I see it mainly as an attempt to make the monk class less useless at the beginning of the game.

    Yes, exactly! The primary goal was to change the monk to be useful in BG1 and be fun and balanced to play through the whole series. So it involved making the monk better to start, but removing some of their crazy-good abilities at higher levels (since you get those abilities as payment for suffering through the lower levels with a near-useless monk).

    I could've done this without adding weapons, but I wanted to give them the ability to be reasonably proficient in all melee weapons so I did (and be of the mentality that they need to be able to use whatever they happen to find, rather than specializing in one or two weapons).
  • BCaesarBCaesar Member Posts: 453
    Anyways I'm just about done with it (just need to finish editing items and creatures for BG1).

    I did hit somewhat of a snag though. I want to edit the following dialog.tlk files:
    32299 -Monk description
    31984- Sun Soul Monk
    31981- Dark Moon Monk
    24234- Monk

    I can do that in Near Infinity but from what I'm reading that's a bad idea for a mod. Better to do that in WeiDU, which I should use anyways to make the mod into something that anyone can install.

    The problem is that upon opening WeiDU it makes no sense to me. I read a tutorial and that made no sense. Then I saw a link to a tutorial for people who know absolutely nothing about WeiDU and that still made no sense. They might as well be writing in Latin. It's like I wanted to know how long an apple pie should bake and someone handed me a cookbook in Latin and told me, "Just learn Latin and then read this cookbook and in there is a recipe for cake that will solve all of your problems."

    So it might be a while before I can get this mod finished. Maybe I can find a tutorial for people who know even less than those who know nothing about WeiDU. I need to learn the meanings of all the words and phrases that are being used and how to do very, very, very basic things.
  • BCaesarBCaesar Member Posts: 453
    subtledoctor said:


    Um, they have fighter thac0, d12 hit dice, more weapon proficiencies than a fighter, faster proficiency advancement than a fighter... if they're not warriors what are they??

    Honestly this whole project sounds like you're designing a variant of the Kensai. If you start with the Kensai as a base, all of these weapon-related superpowers would make a bit more sense, and it would be easier to allow other races to use the kit, and they could use 2-handed weapons. You could still call it a "Shaolin Master" or something.

    GrimLefourbe said:

    I think the main difference here is that kensai focus on 1 weapon while he's more trying to have his monk branch into multiple possible weapons. It does seem similar outside of that but I see it mainly as an attempt to make the monk class less useless at the beginning of the game.

    I rewrote my first post to organize everything a little better and shorten it, grouping together and listing what I added, what I removed, and what I kept so hopefully it should make more sense now. It's still more similar to the old monk than it is to the Kensai. I added some low-level toughness so it could survive, removed a bunch of higher level abilities for balance, and then gave it use of a great number of melee (but no missile weapons) but at lower specialization than fighters have.
  • RatatoskrRatatoskr Member Posts: 711
    edited December 2016
    I admit, I'm not quite so happy about losing all missile weapons (I mean, come on. Everyone can throw rocks :smile: ). But if Rasaad stops dying every time I look away for 30 seconds, it's probably worth the trade off. Currently Rasaad always get stuck with darts or a sling because it's the only way he has a chance of surviving through the fight.

    Two questions. 1. Did you actually take away their movement bonus? I didn't see that in your list, but you mentioned doing it earlier. 2. Is this mod in conjunction with the Sun Soul Monk/Dark Moon kits or is it replacing them - I mean, does Rasaad still get his kitted special abilities, but with these differences to the base monk class? So could I play a Soul Sun version of your monk?

    Post edited by Ratatoskr on
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  • BCaesarBCaesar Member Posts: 453
    edited December 2016
    subtledoctor said:

    Never meant to suggest you don't do it. Just saying that sometimes it can be useful to step back and re-frame the way you view a project. It can illuminate new ways to get to your intended result, maybe doing so more easily or more thoroughly or more pleasingly. But those new ways of course are only options to consider, not mandates. :wink:

    Maybe I misread your description, it sounded like this class gets 6 profs to begin with and another every 2 levels. While a trueclass fighter - meant to be THE weapons master in these games - starts with 4-5 and only gets more every 3 levels. That's a pretty astounding superiority.

    As for the rest: it seems to me that monks should be squishy at low levels. Kung fu movies are replete with masses of low-level adepts being murdered in droves, before the line hero trains to become a master and overcomes the bad guy. But you don't start out as a master; that's the end-point.

    The game reflects this, with low-level monks being squishy and high-level monks being almost ridiculously overpowered. Seems to me, this is tending to make them supermen at all levels. BUT this stuff all just comes down to personal preferences. You should take this posts as merely other perspectives; not criticism.

    My goal as I test it is basically to make a monk around as useful on the front line as a fighter throughout the game. They aren't as over-powered end game with this as well since I removed their high magic resistance and immunity to disease, slow, charm, and normal weapons. If they end up being too over-powered I'll reduce their bonuses a little.

    It was 6 points per weapon and 1 per level, but there's a maximum of 1 on a single weapon at level 1 and three points per weapon maximum which means for a single weapon they'll be inferior to fighters. You may have a point though, I reduced it to 5 points at level 1 and 1 point every two levels and a maximum of 2 points per weapon.

    I do want the monk to be able to skilled in a greater range of weapons than the fighter. The idea is that the monk is expected to be skilled in many different kinds of melee weapons so he/she trains in a great range (and unarmed combat as well). Most guards or fighters have a specific weapon or few that they like and just stick with those and get really skilled with them. So the monk gets lots of points but can only put 2 on a given weapon (and only 1 at first level) whereas the fighter can put 5 on a single weapon. Also the fighter can use shields and missile weapons and the monk can't.
    Post edited by BCaesar on
  • BCaesarBCaesar Member Posts: 453
    edited December 2016
    Ratatoskr589 said:

    I admit, I'm not quite so happy about losing all missile weapons (I mean, come on. Everyone can throw rocks :smile: ). But if Rasaad stops dying every time I look away for 30 seconds, it's probably worth the trade off. Currently Rasaad always get stuck with darts or a sling because it's the only way he has a chance of surviving through the fight.

    Two questions. 1. Did you actually take away their movement bonus? I didn't see that in your list, but you mentioned doing it earlier. 2. Is this mod in conjunction with the Sun Soul Monk/Dark Moon kits or is it replacing them - I mean, does Rasaad still get his kitted special abilities, but with these differences to the base monk class? So could I play a Soul Sun version of your monk?

    1) I did remove their movement bonus. I forgot to mention that. That's added to my first post now.

    2) This modifies the monk and both kits, but I didn't modify unarmed combat or their various abilities. So the original monk gets its abilities and the kits get theirs instead.
    Post edited by BCaesar on
  • RatatoskrRatatoskr Member Posts: 711
    edited December 2016
    BCaesar said:



    1) I did remove their movement bonus. I forgot to mention that. That's added to my first post now.

    2) This modifies the monk and both kits, but I didn't modify unarmed combat or their various abilities. So the original monk gets its abilities and the kits get theirs instead.

    Sounds good.

  • BCaesarBCaesar Member Posts: 453
    subtledoctor said:


    As for the rest: it seems to me that monks should be squishy at low levels. Kung fu movies are replete with masses of low-level adepts being murdered in droves, before the line hero trains to become a master and overcomes the bad guy. But you don't start out as a master; that's the end-point.

    The game reflects this, with low-level monks being squishy and high-level monks being almost ridiculously overpowered. Seems to me, this is tending to make them supermen at all levels. BUT this stuff all just comes down to personal preferences. You should take this posts as merely other perspectives; not criticism.

    Well in all fairness low level warrior henchmen are very squishy in movies too. Despite wearing heavy armor they're usually killed with a half-hearted sword stroke by the hero or knocked out with a thrown rock by a hobbit. As long as monks are now roughly as durable as front-line warriors of similar experience levels then I'm happy. If it turns out they're much tougher I'll reduce their toughness. If it turns out they're still dying much easier than equivalent fighters then I'll increase it.

    I don't think they're currently as overpowered as you think they are, but there's an easy way to find out if you want to test it (I'm about to do a run through the Black Pits with a party of half monks and half fighters myself and see how that works). Everything's finished in Near Infinity so now it's into the testing phase while I figure out WeiDU. I've already e-mailed out all the files you can copy into your override folder to Ratatoskr589 and she's testing it. I'll be happy to e-mail them to you as well if you're feeling up for a run through BG1:EE (or at least the BG1:EE Black Pits).
  • RatatoskrRatatoskr Member Posts: 711
    edited December 2016
    Just FYI... If you zip the files into a folder, you should be able to attach them here as well for a direct download. Though that works best with smaller mods. If it's too large you may have to host it somewhere else instead.

    And I'll let you know how the test goes later. Using Black Pits is actually a good idea :) I was just going to cheat to higher levels to make sure everything worked as intended.
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    edited December 2016
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  • RatatoskrRatatoskr Member Posts: 711
    subtledoctor said:



    Ratatoskr589 said:

    Just FYI... If you zip the files into a folder, you should be able to attach them here as well for a direct download.

    That won't work here, because the files were modded in BGEE, so all of the strings will be broken in BG2EE/IWDEE.

    I was just thinking a direct download for testing on BGEE. But that's good to know.
  • BCaesarBCaesar Member Posts: 453
    subtledoctor said:


    All of this should be pretty straightforward in Weidu (though of course it doesn't seem that way if you haven't done it before. :lol: ) I'd be happy to help with some of the techniques this calls for.

    Ratatoskr589 said:


    I was just thinking a direct download for testing on BGEE. But that's good to know.

    Thanks. I got some answers to my questions in this thread so I should be ok. If everything goes well I hope to have a finished WeiDU mod by the end of the week. I may need some help changing the class/kit descriptions and the level up descriptions in WeiDU so I'll let you know.

    Once I get this mod completely finished and the balance how I like, then I'll worry about making one for BG1:EE with SoD and then for BG2. I have a complete list of everything I did, so if I can't just paste the files (which I was hoping I could) I can still edit them individually. And then of course I'll have to go through and edit all the weapons, Rasaad, and any monk creatures for each game. But first things first.

    Also made some more changes in version 1.01 reducing their stat bonuses and also their thief points, and making them take a bit longer to specialize (2nd point for weapons/styles at level 6, 3rd point for styles at level 9). I edited the changes in the first post at top, and then put what I changed at the bottom of that post (under changes from 1.00 to 1.01.

    And Ratatoskr I e-mailed you the new files and description so you should be all set. And then once I have an actual WeiDU mod then I can just attach it to the first post and everything gets easier.

  • BCaesarBCaesar Member Posts: 453
    subtledoctor said:



    All of this should be pretty straightforward in Weidu (though of course it doesn't seem that way if you haven't done it before. :lol: ) I'd be happy to help with some of the techniques this calls for.

    Well it is all finished and has a WeiDU installer now (both for BG1:EE 2.0 and after and one for earlier versions). I tested it and Ratatoskr tested it and it seems to all work as intended.

    I do have one thing I want to do though. I want to modify the following files under Dialog.tlk to reflect all the changes:
    32299 -Short Monk description
    31984- Sun Soul Monk Kit Description
    91981- Dark Moon Monk Kit Description
    24234- Monk Class Description

    They're the descriptions when you create a new character so I want to edit those without screwing anything else up. Do you know how to do that in WeiDU?

    Thanks.
  • RatatoskrRatatoskr Member Posts: 711
    I'll test the older version for you when I get the chance. As long as the descriptions show up you should be good since everything else was working already, but I'll go pick up Rasaad too just to make sure.
  • RatatoskrRatatoskr Member Posts: 711
    @BCaesar I did some testing and sent you notes about it, let me know if you need any more details. I'm thinking the 2da files might be different between versions.
  • BCaesarBCaesar Member Posts: 453
    Ratatoskr589 said:

    @BCaesar I did some testing and sent you notes about it, let me know if you need any more details. I'm thinking the 2da files might be different between versions.

    Ok, I got more information from subtledoctor about how to edit WeiDU here, and changed how it was set up. I e-mailed you the new version for pre-2.0. Let me know if that works and I'll post it here.
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