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SCS related spell protection removal

Hey Guys,

I'm a pretty long time BG2 player. Unfortunately, one of the things I've never really mastered was understanding what spell-protection removal spells are best used in certain circumstances.

I understand some of the basics. If I wanted to get a stoneskin down asap, I might use Breach.

However. If I'm fighting a lich that opens up with a spell sequencer or chain contingency of Immunity from Magical Energy, Protection from Elements, Protection from Magical Weapons and Spell Immunity: Abjuration (and later casts Spell Trap). As a side note: Am I just supposed to soak for the duration of SI:A? If I take that to be literal, then just about every anti spell protection spell I have shouldnt work, right?

I'm not really sure what the best spell to start peeling those off is supposed to be. Khelben's Warding Whip seems like a solid option, since it seems to remove one protection per turn, but then - why does Ruby Ray of Reversal even exist (unless it has some functionality that Khelben's doesnt have?)

I usually just try to brute my way through these encounters - using healing potions and maneuvering characters around to mitigate the likelihood of death. It'd be nice to know what spells I'm supposed to use

Thanks in advance

Wormking

Comments

  • Raven999Raven999 Member Posts: 20
    Hey bud!


    Don't worry, the spell removal/protection mechanics are pretty complex. The best way to learn about them is to play a mage as your main character, since we usually tend to focus a bit more on our main player character than we do our teammates.


    You got all the basics right, now it's just a matter of fine tuning your knowledge of the spell mechanics.



    For example, Spell Immunity is an excellent spell, but unlike what the spell description leads you to believe, Spell Immunity will NOT render the caster immune to every spell of a specific school. This is especially the case for Spell Immunity: Abjuration.

    Spell Immunity: Abjuration will protect the caster from spells like Dispel Magic, Remove Magic, Imprisonment...etc. but not from other Abjuration spells like Pierce Shield or Secret Word.



    As for the difference between Ruby Ray of Reversal and Khelben's Warding Whip, I can also help you with that. Both are excellent spells, but they don't do the same thing.

    Khelben's Warding Whip is a stronger version of Secret Word (SW will not penetrate Globe of Invulnerability, KWW will), but is weaker than Ruby Ray of Reversal.
    Khelben's Warding Whip is good, but it won't even make a dent in Spell Trap.
    You'll need something stronger for that, something like Ruby Ray of Reversal.

    Khelben's Warding Whip is basically a toned down version of Ruby Ray of Reversal that fires 3x instead of 1x.
    Very useful against mid level mages, but useless against top tier mages who use Spell Trap.
    Both spells have their use.

    Hope this helps.

    As and added piece of advice, don't forget to watch out for enemy Spell Shields.
    Those things are nasty and will eat up the first protection removal spell you throw at the enemy, with the exception of Dispel/Remove magic (which only work depending on your level vs that of the enemy's).

    If an enemy mage shields his protections with a Spell Shield, don't use up one of your high level protection removal spells to take it down. Use something cheap like Spell Thrust or Secret Word and keep the more potent stuff for after you bring the Spell Shield down.


    Hope this helps.

    brunardo
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,147
    @Raven999

    Thankyou, like the OP I can never work out what to use. Tend to use the "expert approach" of "throw everything, including the kitchen sink, and keep my fingers crossed something works"

    But by instinct I have tended to start with lower level and work my way up so by chance have been using Secret Word as you recommend.

    Is there anything you can do if the caster is "sancturied" (as in the message "can't target spells on enemies who are invisible or sanctury")?

  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,147
    @Raven999

    One more thing, how do you take down a Fireshield?
    I can never get rid of them and tend to end up using skeletons and breach so eventually the mage dies but the fireshield is still going.

    Oh and another thing, sorry.
    Does Lower Magic Resistance help if cast before any of the defence shredding spells?

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • Raven999Raven999 Member Posts: 20

    @Raven999
    Is there anything you can do if the caster is "sancturied" (as in the message "can't target spells on enemies who are invisible or sanctury")?

    Hey there!
    Glad I could help.

    The best way to get rid of illusionary spells like Sanctury, Improved Invisibility and Mislead is True Seeing and True Sight. IMHO, level six offers the mage/sorcerer some very deadly spells, so either of those scrying spells comes out as pretty expensive. Unless you're playing a solo mage, try to leave the scrying to the priests. They can do that and you can keep your precious level 6 slots for stuff like Mislead, Death Spell, Protection from Magical Weapons and Invisible Stalker.


    Chimaera is right. If you're playing the vanilla game, Breach should take down the Fireshield.
    If it doesn't, use Dispel Magic or Remove Magic.
    Spellstrike would also work, but IMO it would be a crime to waste a level 9 slot just to take down a minor nuisance like Fireshield.

  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,413
    edited February 2017
    Raven999 said:

    @Raven999
    Is there anything you can do if the caster is "sancturied" (as in the message "can't target spells on enemies who are invisible or sanctury")?

    Hey there!
    Glad I could help.

    The best way to get rid of illusionary spells like Sanctury, Improved Invisibility and Mislead is True Seeing and True Sight. IMHO, level six offers the mage/sorcerer some very deadly spells, so either of those scrying spells comes out as pretty expensive. Unless you're playing a solo mage, try to leave the scrying to the priests. They can do that and you can keep your precious level 6 slots for stuff like Mislead, Death Spell, Protection from Magical Weapons and Invisible Stalker.


    Chimaera is right. If you're playing the vanilla game, Breach should take down the Fireshield.
    If it doesn't, use Dispel Magic or Remove Magic.
    Spellstrike would also work, but IMO it would be a crime to waste a level 9 slot just to take down a minor nuisance like Fireshield.

    Umm, in vanilla spellstrike does not touch combat protections like fireshield. It dispels all spell protections, though.

    Ruby ray's one advantage over Khelben's is it can dispel up to any level of protection, thus it can dispel Spell Trap. Khelben's whip can work up to level 8, thus it can not dispel the dreaded spell trap. Also, since it is alteration, it has some importance when enemies use si:abjuration in mods like scs and improved anvil.

    Post edited by lunar on
    semiticgoddess
  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 598
    The fact Ruby Ray is Alteration makes no difference whatsoever in what it can remove, since Abjuration spell removers are not affected by SI Abjuration anyway.

    Ruby Ray has 1 use only: it is the lowest level spell that can remove Spell Trap.

    Simple guide to debuffing is:

    1) Remove Spell Shield with Spell Thrust or Breach (if lich)

    2) Remove Spell Trap with Ruby Ray

    3) Now use the appropriate spells to dispel any other spell protections the opponent has e.g. Spellstrike (everything), Spell Thrust (everything under level 6), Secrer Word or Khelben's etc

    4) Breach / Remove Magic

    5) Kill as desired

    Wormking
  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 598
    Should have added: if you have Spellstrike you can ignore step 2 since Spellstrike will remove everything as soon as Spell Shield is gone.

  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,527

    The fact Ruby Ray is Alteration makes no difference whatsoever in what it can remove, since Abjuration spell removers are not affected by SI Abjuration anyway.

    Ruby Ray has 1 use only: it is the lowest level spell that can remove Spell Trap.

    Simple guide to debuffing is:

    1) Remove Spell Shield with Spell Thrust or Breach (if lich)

    2) Remove Spell Trap with Ruby Ray

    3) Now use the appropriate spells to dispel any other spell protections the opponent has e.g. Spellstrike (everything), Spell Thrust (everything under level 6), Secrer Word or Khelben's etc

    4) Breach / Remove Magic

    5) Kill as desired

    Should have added: if you have Spellstrike you can ignore step 2 since Spellstrike will remove everything as soon as Spell Shield is gone.



    Okay. That's awesome. These two explanations are super useful. Essentially, once I have the spell shield and spell trap buffs removed, I can mass debuff to push across the rest.

    Thanks for all of the help guys. That's pretty enormously helpful.

  • brunardobrunardo Member Posts: 514
    This thread is great, helped me understand the dynamics alot better now...I think I got lucky on most of my playthroughs I always had keldorn!

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