Wild mages - why?
BelgarathMTH
Member Posts: 5,653
Hi, I was wondering if someone could help me understand the appeal of wild mages. I've never really "gotten" the class.
For starters, most of what's on the wild surge table is just going to get you killed. Then, you have to spend precious spell slots on spells that reduce the chances of the very thing that's supposed to be your forte and makes your class special from happening.
Do people like the class just because of all the comedic ways to die? "Ha, ha, gated in a pit fiend that wiped my party and probably killed the entire population of the region (reload)." "Ha, ha, turned myself to stone (reload)." "Ha, ha, meant to web the archers and summoned a swarm of squirrels instead, while the archers slaughtered my party (reload)." "Ha, ha, meant to cast strength on my tank and fireballed my own party instead (reload)".
Um, yeah, totally hilarious. But I like to play a bit more seriously, with no or minimal reloads, so I would never play this class.
Does it have its defenders, and why? If not strictly for comedy, what is good about the class?
For starters, most of what's on the wild surge table is just going to get you killed. Then, you have to spend precious spell slots on spells that reduce the chances of the very thing that's supposed to be your forte and makes your class special from happening.
Do people like the class just because of all the comedic ways to die? "Ha, ha, gated in a pit fiend that wiped my party and probably killed the entire population of the region (reload)." "Ha, ha, turned myself to stone (reload)." "Ha, ha, meant to web the archers and summoned a swarm of squirrels instead, while the archers slaughtered my party (reload)." "Ha, ha, meant to cast strength on my tank and fireballed my own party instead (reload)".
Um, yeah, totally hilarious. But I like to play a bit more seriously, with no or minimal reloads, so I would never play this class.
Does it have its defenders, and why? If not strictly for comedy, what is good about the class?
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Comments
That's the good thing about it for me. Yes, it's hilarious to spawn in 200 rabbits when you cast a fireball, but for all good intentions, every single one of your spells has a 50/50 chance to be extremely lethal or to be a joke. And for me, that is very handy when fighting say...a lich.
It's sort of a mage+ for me. A mix between Sorcerer and Mage with a huge luck factor.
Wild mages, if used wisely, can be VERY powerful due to wild surges. It's possible for a low level wild mage to do a lot of damage with a single spell. So, for the magically inclined, and those who like messing with spells, and spell combinations, the Wild mage presents an interesting alternative to the regular mage classes. Oh, and who doesn't like summoning a hoard of rats?
I guess it comes down to how much you care about committing suicide with some frequency and reloading.
No, this is not a no reload class by definition, though you'd get one hell of a playthrough iron man style.
Nah, I kid. The worse save vs poison would probably do you in by itself.
How can the party not comment about a cow-kill? They'd have nothing to say about wild color changes for the caster? Wouldn't there be a remark or two about squirrels suddenly appearing around her? Or the caster's gender changing?
In a perfect world of CRPGing those are golden opportunities for some great banters--even just one-liners. It doesn't have to be a lengthy conversation. But something!
I hope that we will see something like that with Neera. Because sure enough, strictly from a tactical standpoint Wild Mages are likely to get people killed. I think the class's saving grace is that they do have tremendous potential for roleplaying and party interaction.
BUT yes, Wild Mages are there for comedic effect. In practice, they are specialized mages who's opposed school is reliability.
The chances something goes horribly wrong is not nearly as bad as you make it out, btw. You only roll on the wild surge table on a Nat 1, so it's as likely to happen as a critical miss. There are only about 5 rolls on the wild surge table that are reload worthy in and of themselves, then maybe another 5 which are "significantly" detrimental, and then maybe another 3 or 4 on top of that which are "bad" in that the spell does nothing. Then maybe another 2 which simply increase the odds those bad things happen.
If you rely on Reckless Dwoemer, then yeah you're gonna see bad things happen a lot more. But the chance of a catastrophic failure are pretty small. I don't know how to calculate the odds, but you need to roll 5% and then only 10% of the time beyond that are you going to "need" to reload.
I think the reset-worthy effects are more like 5% of the table though. So 1 in 400.
Wild Mages serve best in the blasty roll. Typically, overt damage is the least important thing your mage can do. If your fireball fails to cast, it's not a big deal. If that haste fails to cast, that could be big trouble.
It's why I'm such a huge fan of Aerie. She's SO GOOD at being my buffy.
@Elminster, if using gate in a crowded town does indeed cause reputation loss, I think that a lot of people are going to be pissed off when Neera accuses them of being evil and leaves the party over her own spell misfire. I do know from experience that innocents killed by party members under charm, confusion, or chaos do indeed cause the reputation loss, and I have had the experience of being annoyed and pissed off by a party member leaving after they themselves killed innocent bystanders.
@Jalily, I think your and @sandmanCCL's estimate of the chances of disaster is low. Critical misses are going to happen on every map of the game. And this issue brings up another issue of how the random number generation in the game program works - I and many other people are convinced that critical misses come up far more often than 5% of the rolls. And even if your 400 to 1 figure is absolutely correct, how many times will you roll the dice during a total run of even just the BG1 portion of the game? Quite a bit more than 400 times, unless you are severely restricting spellcasting from the wild mage. (She only casts as a last ditch, desperate, "Hail Mary" play.)
Also, @sandmanCCL's estimates of the number of suicide events on the wild surge table is *very* low in my opinion, as the "suicide" outcome is highly situational, and therefore constitutes a by-definition unsolvable chaotic equation of infinite variables. Accidentally casting a fireball or a meteor swarm while attempting to cast an AoE far away from the party could actually have a favorable outcome, but casting it on party members or self while at low level is suicide. That means every invisibility, mirror image, stoneskin, blur, mage armor, spirit armor, spell immunity, spell deflection, minor globe of invulnerabiltiy, fireshield, coldshield, mantle, absolute immunity, and any other defensive spell of any level is potential suicide. The chances and means for disaster boggle my mind.
Four hundred to one? Over time, even over one map, the chances of suicide by magic approach one hundred percent, in my opinion.
But that's half the fun.
Also in my estimation of fatal flaws, I actually factored in fireballs and stuff as detrimental outcomes. 5 of the outcomes are absolutely reroll worthy, and another 5 (the fireballs and such) are probably going to set you back pretty big, then you have another 5 or so where absolutely nothing happens and that could be pretty detrimental.
If you play like I do where you have multiple casters, simply relegate the important things to your other caster. If you're relying on that wildmage to the important things wizards can do for your party, you're kind of boned. If you use them to do things that you kind of except to fail anyway (hold spells, direct damage, etc.) they end up being less of a headache.
One thing I haven't seen any arguments against - my position that Neera or any other wild mage is a handicap to the party, and not an asset. Either playing a wild mage or taking one into your party is a means to laugh and have parody in your game, with reloading in almost every battle, or it is a way to make the game more difficult, as you will be wasting a party slot on a character who cannot fulfill her job function. Her every cast of a spell risks party wipe. I still don't see a reason for the class other than comedy or as a difficulty-increasing handicap to your party.
Haha, I kid. I actually completely agree with you, thank you for posting this thread, I've always felt the same way. There's also some good points in here, so I'm looking forward to running her with these different things in mind now.
While there is that chance of catastrophic failure, remember there is also the chance of serendipitous success. Ever seen a skull trap cast at x4 your caster level? It's pretty hilarious. It's also pretty funny when you get something like gems to spawn. "I better go invisibl- OOH SHINIES!"
In BG:EE, I don't see them really coming into their own because half the fun is using your level 1 spell slots on Reckless Dweomer and hoping you get that Disintegrate to go off. I guess it means you have more cloudkills per day? That ain't so bad. If the dice gods are with you.
But yeah for the most part they are pretty gimmicky. You guys all probably know by now I'm generally a fan of playing the game hardcore: I die and it's game over, Sarevok/Irenicus wins. Wild mages are the antithesis of that, and as such are not recommended for a serious "gatta go fast, gatta win!" mindset playthrough. If anything, they are the most fun classes if you are planning on doing any sort of playthrough where you describe what happens in a Let's Play style, simply because it breaks up the monotony of "I shot my fireball wand at a bunch of kobolds. All dead. Dead kobolds."
The chance of a wild surge is 1 in 20. A third of the surge results are clearly beneficial in combat. Roughly a third have no serious negative consequence in combat, but the desired spell does not fire. And about a third are decidedly bad outcomes. So it's only a 1.6% chance that something seriously bad will happen. Actually, the seriously unwelcome outcomes number around one fourth. So it's more like a 1.25 percent chance of something very bad resulting for any spell cast.
In any event, there's a 3% chance that the spell will be either an unexpected dud or disaster. And some of those dud results are even good, such a gems for the caster--just not directly helpful for combat purposes.