Skip to content

a Bhaalspawn is actually a half-fiend?

hellhoundhellhound Member Posts: 33
edited September 2012 in Archive (General Discussion)
According to http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Tiefling:

"Some tieflings are not descended from mere fiends at all, but from powerful gods. These tieflings often have their own physical characteristics that set them apart. Tieflings sired by Beshaba, for instance, often have antlers instead of horns and pale, white hair. Those sired by Mask, on the other hand, are known for their tendency to cast no reflection[10] while half-fiends spawned by Bhaal often appear physically identical to humans, a characteristic they may have passed down to their descendants."

So a half-elf is actually a one-third-elf
«1

Comments

  • The problem with Wiki's is that anyone can add things...Learn to be a critical thinker, always question what has no citation. Now i checked PG. 127 of Races of Faerun, and it confirms the first half of that paragraph BUT "while half-fiends spawned by Bhaal often appear physically identical to humans, a characteristic they may have passed down to their descendants." IS not cited nor is it mentioned in RAC.

    BUT As for bhaalspawn being half-fiends, I might agree with you based on this, except that half-fiends are all supposed to be hideous and evil-looking, like tieflings +100, But you can chock it up to the fact that that "tieflings decended form gods" is a 3e thing, when bg is based on 2e material
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    Taking in fact that Bhaal was previous a human, before ascend to godhood, i feel uneasy in accept this fact, as any good deity progenity would be half-deva and neutral deities would have no classification. If they aknowledge the demon princes and devil lords as deities somehow, i would understand better this classification.
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    Welcome to Forgotten Realms. We have rules, except when we break them.

    In the technical sense of the term, CHARNAME is a tiefling. It's just the way Bhaal mated with stuff, he didn't pass down a physical trait so any given Bhaalspawn is a representation of that race.
  • TalvraeTalvrae Member Posts: 315
    Bhaal breed true from what i understand with anything, if do a dragon, it will be a dragon, if he do an elf, the result will be an elf, if he do an haf-elf the result will be an half-elf again... dragon magazine a long time ago had released rules for playing bhaal spawn by the way.... numero 288 apparentelly 3e rules... if anybody find it make me a sign
  • TalvraeTalvrae Member Posts: 315
    edited September 2012
    here it is
    edit: well was asked to remove it for copyright...
    Post edited by Talvrae on
  • jolly_bbjolly_bb Member Posts: 122
    Talvrae said:

    here it is


    - Must murder someone who is not hostile to the Bhaalspawn every 13 days or lose 1 Wisdom per day until the murder is completed (at which point all Wisdom returns).

    How come that did not make it to the actual game :P?

  • TalvraeTalvrae Member Posts: 315
    don't ask me... i simply report what's in the dragon magazine... i seriously don't like that template
  • kilroy_was_herekilroy_was_here Member Posts: 455
    HAHA... must murder someone who is not hostile to the Bhaalspawn every 13 days or lose 1 Wisdom per day? Try keeping a good alignment with that, or even a neutral one!
  • GrayvieGrayvie Member Posts: 49
    Well... that's what you get with 3ed rules I guess...
    I agree that killing a non hostle character once per 13 days is really rich =). Though I like that Infernal Temper trait.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    edited September 2012
    @Talvrae, I hate to be the wet blanket, but posting stuff from Dragon Magazine for public viewing violates their copyright (Dragon isn't OGL). If you wouldn't mind editing that part out of your post, that'd be super. :)
  • TalvraeTalvrae Member Posts: 315
    Okey sorry
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    No worries; I'm a staff member over at DnDOnlineGames, and we crack down pretty hard on that stuff, so I'm always hyper-aware of it.
  • hellhoundhellhound Member Posts: 33
    Ahh, I think kamuizin had an answer to this, I forgot the bhaalspawn in Baldur's Gate are descended from the human form Bhaal from the Time of troubles, and not spawned from his true god form.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited September 2012
    Bhaal presumably took various forms to "sow his mortal progeny," as we saw with Yagashura.

    Bhaal would had to have been out there begetting his mortal progeny before the time of Troubles, actually. Abazigal, who is a Bhaalspawn, has a son, Draconis (who one would assume is more than 15 years old). Bhaal foresaw that he would be killed during the Time of Troubles, so I think he went about plotting his resurrection well before the poop hit the fan in the ToT.
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    @Lemernis, never thougth of that, really 20 years... Draconis must be five years old at maximum and Abazigail must have made him at 15 years...
  • Lemernis said:

    Bhaal presumably took various forms to "sow his mortal progeny," as we saw with Yagashura.

    Bhaal would had to have been out there begetting his mortal progeny before the time of Troubles, actually. Abazigal, who is a Bhaalspawn, has a son, Draconis (who one would assume is more than 15 years old). Bhaal foresaw that he would be killed during the Time of Troubles, so I think he went about plotting his resurrection well before the poop hit the fan in the ToT.

    Definitely so, because there is only 10 years between the time of troubles and the year of the banner (1358 and 1368 respectively)
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited September 2012
    The lifespan of as dragon is very long, over 1,200 years for a Great Wyrm. (See here.)

    Remember, that Bhaal sired Abazigal!

    I'd guess that Abazigal is a relatively mature dragon--at least an adult.

    Anyway, that establishes that Bhaal was going around sowing his seed long before the Time of Troubles.

    Bhaal gets assassinated during the Godswar because he's vulnerable, as he's forced to walk the planet in an avatar, or body. But he was out there making babies long before that.
  • HoebaggerHoebagger Member Posts: 46
    Being polymorphed changes every bit of your DNA, so in theory if you as a human polymorphed into a an orc and mated with another human, your offspring would be a Half-Orc.

    Unless Bhaal went the Luis Royo route, we can assume that being a descendent of Bhaal has to due with his divine nature while the actual race has to do with the physical nature of what he was polymorphed into.
  • Hoebagger said:

    Being polymorphed changes every bit of your DNA, so in theory if you as a human polymorphed into a an orc and mated with another human, your offspring would be a Half-Orc.

    Unless Bhaal went the Luis Royo route, we can assume that being a descendent of Bhaal has to due with his divine nature while the actual race has to do with the physical nature of what he was polymorphed into.

    This isnt 100%...Half-dragons exist because a dragon polymorphs into a smaller humanoid (like a human or an elf) and mates with another small humanoid.
  • TalvraeTalvrae Member Posts: 315
    edited September 2012
    Lemernis said:

    Bhaal presumably took various forms to "sow his mortal progeny," as we saw with Yagashura.

    Bhaal would had to have been out there begetting his mortal progeny before the time of Troubles, actually. Abazigal, who is a Bhaalspawn, has a son, Draconis (who one would assume is more than 15 years old). Bhaal foresaw that he would be killed during the Time of Troubles, so I think he went about plotting his resurrection well before the poop hit the fan in the ToT.

    Actually Bhaal foresaw his death in The Moonshae Trilogy if i remember well... If anyone know when in take place in the time line that might give an idea
  • Talvrae said:

    Lemernis said:

    Bhaal presumably took various forms to "sow his mortal progeny," as we saw with Yagashura.

    Bhaal would had to have been out there begetting his mortal progeny before the time of Troubles, actually. Abazigal, who is a Bhaalspawn, has a son, Draconis (who one would assume is more than 15 years old). Bhaal foresaw that he would be killed during the Time of Troubles, so I think he went about plotting his resurrection well before the poop hit the fan in the ToT.

    Actually Bhaal foresaw his death in The Moonshae Trilogy if i remember well... If anyone know when in take place in the time line that might give an idea
    According to THIS timeline (And i trust it dearly to be accurate) http://www.o-love.net/realms/fr_time_books.html

    The moonshae trilogy happened in 1345/1346, 12 years prior to the year of shadows (1358)
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    You know, after looking it up I'm surprised that the Forgotten Realms novels only started being published in 1987. Didn't even know that The Crystal Shard was the second book in the setting.

    Thought that there were novels from way before that time.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited September 2012

    Talvrae said:

    Lemernis said:

    Bhaal presumably took various forms to "sow his mortal progeny," as we saw with Yagashura.

    Bhaal would had to have been out there begetting his mortal progeny before the time of Troubles, actually. Abazigal, who is a Bhaalspawn, has a son, Draconis (who one would assume is more than 15 years old). Bhaal foresaw that he would be killed during the Time of Troubles, so I think he went about plotting his resurrection well before the poop hit the fan in the ToT.

    Actually Bhaal foresaw his death in The Moonshae Trilogy if i remember well... If anyone know when in take place in the time line that might give an idea
    According to THIS timeline (And i trust it dearly to be accurate) http://www.o-love.net/realms/fr_time_books.html

    The moonshae trilogy happened in 1345/1346, 12 years prior to the year of shadows (1358)
    Thanks. So 27 years it was. Maybe Abazigal was just the result of a one night stand long before.
  • LordsDarkKnight185LordsDarkKnight185 Member Posts: 615
    edited September 2012
    Lemernis said:

    Talvrae said:

    Lemernis said:

    Bhaal presumably took various forms to "sow his mortal progeny," as we saw with Yagashura.

    Bhaal would had to have been out there begetting his mortal progeny before the time of Troubles, actually. Abazigal, who is a Bhaalspawn, has a son, Draconis (who one would assume is more than 15 years old). Bhaal foresaw that he would be killed during the Time of Troubles, so I think he went about plotting his resurrection well before the poop hit the fan in the ToT.

    Actually Bhaal foresaw his death in The Moonshae Trilogy if i remember well... If anyone know when in take place in the time line that might give an idea
    According to THIS timeline (And i trust it dearly to be accurate) http://www.o-love.net/realms/fr_time_books.html

    The moonshae trilogy happened in 1345/1346, 12 years prior to the year of shadows (1358)
    Thanks. So 27 years it was. Maybe Abazigal was just the result of a one night stand long before.
    HE had to have been, considering he had a son himself "Draconis"
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    @LordsDarkKnight185

    Not to mention that a young adult dragon is at least 50 years old. A full adult is 100-400 years old.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Hrm. Noteworthy:

    Abazigal is a half-dragon, yes. BUT as the son of Bhaal and an actual blue dragon, this would fall into the "sire is null" in terms of racial engendering. So Abazigal might be technically half-dragon/half-god, but in practice he behaves like a dragon.

    My theory where the Bhaalspawn is concerned is that your mortal mother is whatever race you are. So an elf bhaalspawn would have an elf mother, a half-elf would have a half-elf mother, and so on.

    ...Of course, in ToB, it's "revealed-ish" that your mother was human(?). But that's neither here nor there.
  • Yes it was revealed as such (Canon-wise abdel is human)
    But it would have been nice if it was possible to swap out the model for whichever race you are to make it fit more.
  • jpierce55jpierce55 Member Posts: 86
    Nope, not a half fiend.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447

    Yes it was revealed as such (Canon-wise abdel is human)
    But it would have been nice if it was possible to swap out the model for whichever race you are to make it fit more.

    Agreed. It should be pretty easy to make that fix, though. Just set the animation to use the race of the CharName.
  • HoebaggerHoebagger Member Posts: 46



    This isnt 100%...Half-dragons exist because a dragon polymorphs into a smaller humanoid (like a human or an elf) and mates with another small humanoid.

    Hmm, what other types of things are persistent after polymorphing then that isn't mentioned in the rules? Does that mean that polymorphing into an elf in order to use elf only armor shouldn't work? I've honestly never considered this before....
Sign In or Register to comment.