Worries regarding the Steam workshop
Taro94
Member Posts: 125
Steam workshop support is planned to be implemented, but this raises the question regarding the other platforms. Obviously, Steam is the largest market share, but I think it's no excuse for locking non-Steam customers out of some user-made content.
Fortunately, it appears that Beamdog is well-aware of this given Trent Oster's statements on the streams. Nevertheless, I think it's Important to write down potential problems resulting from implementation of the Steam workshop support.
Given that most players will have the game on Steam, content creators might not bother uploading their stuff to the Vault, making it unavailable for GOG and Beamdog users. Of course many creators and builders will post it in bother repositories, but it's going to be a problem for part of content nevertheless.
Even in the case of a modder putting their content externally in addition to the Workshop, in many cases one place is going to have it not up to date (as life has shown happens a lot when modders upload their work on multiple sites). This is once again going to hurt non-Steam users (who may find only an older version available to them), but to a lesser extent also Steam users, who will want to make sure the workshop version is up to date in comparison to the Vault version. This, in turn, might make content creators opt for uploading it on workshop only - to make it simpler for (Steam) players and for themselves alike (not having to update it in multiple places).
Then there are other potential issues - for example, non-Steam content creators will not be able to post their stuff in the repository that's likely going to become more popular than the Vault.
Unfortunately, these are some difficult problems to solve. I, myself, do not have any feasible suggestions for tackling them at the moment, but perhaps a discussion can give birth to some ideas. One way or another, I think it's Important we consider these effects of introducing the Steam workshop support.
If only Valve allowed direct downloads of the workshop stuff...
Fortunately, it appears that Beamdog is well-aware of this given Trent Oster's statements on the streams. Nevertheless, I think it's Important to write down potential problems resulting from implementation of the Steam workshop support.
Given that most players will have the game on Steam, content creators might not bother uploading their stuff to the Vault, making it unavailable for GOG and Beamdog users. Of course many creators and builders will post it in bother repositories, but it's going to be a problem for part of content nevertheless.
Even in the case of a modder putting their content externally in addition to the Workshop, in many cases one place is going to have it not up to date (as life has shown happens a lot when modders upload their work on multiple sites). This is once again going to hurt non-Steam users (who may find only an older version available to them), but to a lesser extent also Steam users, who will want to make sure the workshop version is up to date in comparison to the Vault version. This, in turn, might make content creators opt for uploading it on workshop only - to make it simpler for (Steam) players and for themselves alike (not having to update it in multiple places).
Then there are other potential issues - for example, non-Steam content creators will not be able to post their stuff in the repository that's likely going to become more popular than the Vault.
Unfortunately, these are some difficult problems to solve. I, myself, do not have any feasible suggestions for tackling them at the moment, but perhaps a discussion can give birth to some ideas. One way or another, I think it's Important we consider these effects of introducing the Steam workshop support.
If only Valve allowed direct downloads of the workshop stuff...
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Comments
I don't see why it would be any different for NWN:EE Workshop and Neverwinter Vault.
I think everything is going to be fine and there will simply be multiple paths available for people to get the same downloads.
My preferred solution is to remain on the vault (and my own private site, which ensures my work is available regardless of what happens elsewhere).
If we must engage with Steam, I'd rather have a stub there, that directs players to the vault for downloads and comments, if such a thing is possible.
Steam Workshop simply provides a great CC deployment vehicle for those who wish to use it. Mods will auto install to the right folders, can be optionally subscribed to and autoupdated if the CC author revises the content, and mod "lists" can be made to download groups of mods all at once (simplifying both PW and SP mod management).
The ease of use issue and the fact that many (I dare say a majority) of the new players who come to this game from Steam are not going to want to comb through other websites trying to piece together a mod and many wonderful modules and pws will not see the influx of potential players that they otherwise would have.
Competition is healthy, as is choice- This move gives us some of both.
I know its trendy to hate on Steam and I once did as well, being anti DRM 100% but over time my views changed and now I'm at a point im rebuying my gog games on steam as they come up for sale and will welcome workshop support in NWN.
I think the majority of content will remain unavailable on Steam but that's a choice you'll have to make.
I don't know how things are with Skyrim, but I know mods for some games that are only available on the Workshop. I remember the pain of trying to find mirrors for Torchlight 2 mods which seemed exclusive to the Workshop. Perhaps NWN will end up like Skyrim and have its content available externally - but who is to say it won't end up like Torchlight 2 and have much of its new content Steam-exclusive? And Torchlight does have dedicated modding sites. It didn't stop mod creators from not caring about posting their stuff in other places, too.
And the lack of direct downloads on the Workshop is at fault here.
I don't see steam replacing anything and I don't see how any serious pw would limit themselves to only users of one webshop / DRM platform.
Maybe Beamdog could make an exception and list the spread of users for each different platform to inform creators of their market shares but I doubt that will be possible. Releasing content the regular way that it can be downloaded without any account or sign up and extracted to a folder like anything else on the internet seems like the safest bet.
Personally, after 9 hours at the office, I don't want to unzip files and move them manually into the correct subfolders while Steam could do that automatically for me.
That's one reason why I like Beamdog and their Enhanced Editions: No need for manual installations of mods from external websites. Everything works fine on modern systems.
15 years ago I had a glorious time testing all mods from external websites for the Inifity Engine-based games, but now I got spoilt by Steam Workshop.
PS: This post is not meant to be disrespectful regarding the NWV.
It does seem inevitable that some content will be Workshop-only, and I'm not sure if that's a problem with a solution. I think if we can keep the vault relevant as a repository of knowledge as well as files, that would help, because it will be somewhere Workshop goers can go to get help with their CC, too. Workshop often features content in other languages too though, so that may be simpler for say, Russian or Chinese speakers making stuff.
When I think about it, I would probably be a little more concerned for the overall vault environment getting hit with an influx of new people (we can only hope!) than splitting the community across platforms
When this hits Steam there will more than likely be quite a bit of sales and a huge influx of players- Many of whom pretty much refuse to leave steam. case in point would be the amount of people currently 'waiting' to buy this until it hits Steam even though we can still get a steam key once its available.
One camp will say- 'its their loss' and to an extent it will be- However, the things released on workshop will have a far wider audience and the pw's that promote and are on workshop will benefit greatly concerning a potential audience.
How can you compete with auto updating, files being installed where they belong and merely having to check 'subscribe' to have the full module or whatever added right into your game? The 'unsubscribe' and immediatley be ready to test a brand new module or pw in seconds with no fuss...Couple that with a large and ready made audience who will be hungry for this stuff?
The op makes a good point- There are going to be things that end up being exclusive to Steam. The question is how much? There is also the question of what beamdog is going to do here (are they going to make some auto-installer or start their own 'creation club' type thing?)
I'll personally use both but if I can get something via workshop i would prefer to do it from there- And its nothing against the vault which I think has provided a stellar service in keeping this thing alive but who knows where things go from here.
Whether or not Steam will have an impact will depend on whether or not it will be able to divide the community. I imagine a lot of ppl predict the active population will pick up at great speed but that remains to be seen, it's possible it does but also possible it doesn't. There were also ppl who said that after the NWN EE announcement things would change dramatically but as of yet the total active population of all EE servers is about the size of a single very small non EE server.
Whether any third party download tool becomes necessary or impactful to play NWN is not something I would wish to make a bet on. We'll just have to wait and see what the result is but if it doesn't get a huge adoption rate I wonder how that will affect the play of those who demanded it.
Download manager programs are also quite old so it has very little to do with it being the year 20XX.
This potentially could make the Steam copy far 'better' than the others depending on how things go down.
I personally love Steam but other hate it and refuse to use it. In a couple years depending on where things are the community could be split by access to certain things as result- Its a valid discussion.
I'd say maybe beamdog should give everyone a key for all platforms and find a way to tie the online key into being the same for each copy? I dont know but at least that would allow everyone full access to everywhere the content might end up being because right now its full of unknowns.
If I were to guess (and granted I have a bias) I would say workshop is really going to take off and this game is really going to grow and down the line there will tons of exclusive things on the workshop.. But again, too many unknowns but certainly a legitimate concern and discussion.
TR
I'm just attempting to pinpoint potential problems that can arise by introducing it, in the hopes of finding some solutions.
At the moment, the only thing that comes to my mind, but isn't really feasible, would be sending content uploaded to the Workshop to some external server in addition to the Workshop, from where it could be downloaded directly. Unfortunately, the cost of maintenance of such a server and redundancy mean it's not really worth the trouble.