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Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition has been released! Visit nwn.beamdog.com to make an order. NWN:EE FAQ is available.
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Man...

I've loved this game since 2000 when it was originally released. Seventeen years later, BG II: SOA has yet to be topped. The immersion, storyline, romances, characters, plots. Has everything.

Just boggles the mind.

Makes one wonder why AAA game developers focus on everything besides what makes certain games legendary. And why said developers dare to call some games role-playing when those games clearly are not.

*coughs*witcher 3*coughs*


RaduzielUnderstandMouseMagicNonnahswriterinkblowout

Comments

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 3,521
    because games are built to milk money, making a game fun that has no DLC makes companies no money, because AAA companies are just greedy money hoarding cows

    back in the day when BG 2 was made, games were made with more pride because companies were creating "art" sort of speak, trying to dish out the best they could do, to compete with others, and the best way to beat your competitor back in the day was to make a game fun

    now its all about the fancy looking graphics with DLC garbage to drain you as much as possible, fun isnt really necessary if they can make you addicted to it instead

    i believe i even heard the phrase years ago from someone that worked at blizzard ( around the year 2005ish ) and that person said something on the lines of: i dont make games to be fun, as long as games are addicting enough people will continue to pay for it

    this is probably how mobile games are built as well, more to do with addiction than actually enjoying yourself, for all those micro transactions

    lost1semiticgod
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 2,478
    edited May 31
    Because we keep buying this sh*t.

    After being a Fallout-fan for years I refused myself to buy Fallout 4.

    After being a Call of Duty-fan for years I refused myself to buy several games from this franchise (the last was Ghosts).

    After being a Pokemon-fan for years I'll probably pass the new Switch game based on the hideous Pokemon Go.

    Demand and supply. People buy sh*t, people sell sh*t. That's how AAA companies, drug dealers, lots of musicians and Apple survive.

  • HenryNYHenryNY Member Posts: 42
    Raduziel said:



    After being a Fallout-fan for years I refused myself to buy Fallout 4.

    After being a Call of Duty-fan for years I refused myself to buy several games from this franchise (the last was Ghosts).

    Refusing to buy is not the same thing as refusing to play. Did you actually play?

    Fallout 4 is a best game ever made.

    And some of the CoD games are too good to not play - play at least once on the veteran difficulty.

  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 2,478
    HenryNY said:

    Raduziel said:



    After being a Fallout-fan for years I refused myself to buy Fallout 4.

    After being a Call of Duty-fan for years I refused myself to buy several games from this franchise (the last was Ghosts).

    Refusing to buy is not the same thing as refusing to play. Did you actually play?

    Fallout 4 is a best game ever made.

    And some of the CoD games are too good to not play - play at least once on the veteran difficulty.
    I know what I like. Saw some friends playing and what I experimented was a sin against the franchise's name.

    Maybe I'm too harsh with CoD because I'm a military myself.

    PS: The best game ever made will always be Fallout 2 (despite the unfortunate lack of Full Party Control) and The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Baldur's Game is a close third place (the enhanced edition, because vanilla's mechanics were a pain).

    Now I'm going to close this account, change my name and move to Mexico.

    lolien
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 964
    as i got older i started useing a pick and chose approach with games and companys.

    fallout is just 1,2 and nv

    bioware is just: bg 1 and 2, nwn, kotor, je, me 1-3, and dao

    final fantasy is 4-10

    i can go on.

    it feels like after 2012 gaming went into a downward spiral with most things besides indies. even obsidian a company i love is not what it used to be now that chris left and pillars 1 may be the last game i play from them for awhile.

    WarChiefZeke
  • HenryNYHenryNY Member Posts: 42
    edited May 31



    it feels like after 2012 gaming went into a downward spiral with most things besides indies. even obsidian a company i love is not what it used to be now that chris left and pillars 1 may be the last game i play from them for awhile.

    GTA 5 is a game released in 2013, one of the best ever games of all time, in the most general category of video games.

    Far Cry 5 is released in March this year, quickly becoming a fastest selling game. Were it not for BG2EE I would be playing that.

    Just for a comparison, BG2 , not BG1, is widely rated the best of all D&D games. But if you broaden the category, it may still be a best (top 10 or at least top 50) RPG game of all time, but if you keep broadening the category, it will quickly fall out of the top 50 or even top 100 list.

    The gaming industry is more thriving than ever before.


    Edited: try to be accurate.

    Post edited by HenryNY on
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 5,580
    I think BG2 HAS been topped, several times. THe writing isn't all that complicated and the comapanions and whatnot are pretty simple. PoE's companions are more believable and complex characters. Almost every RPG since has better class, stat, background reactivity as npcs and even entire story beats sometimes play out differently based on who and what you are (DA:O and PoE 1 and 2 are really good about this). Heck BG2's story isn't even THAT GOOD. Its saved by the charm of its side characters and great performances. By today's standard's it doesn't really offer much in terms of writing depth or complexity. DA:O, PoE, and the Mass Effect series beat out BG2 in almost every area (ME loses out on the combat).

    Raduziel
  • Oswald81Oswald81 Member Posts: 23
    Well for me Throne of Bhaal always were lacklustre. I mean you spent a complete game to defeat a guy who is your secret brother and now he could join you. Lazy writing. And the HLAs wear off after a few hours, then all novelty lost. Shadows of Amn is rightfully considered a great game. TOB more medicdore. I tried some Neverwinter Nights, but I missed the party you could bring along in Baldur's Gate. Msybe I should look into some mod, but I don't know. Most mods usually has some hideous weaknesses that haven't been covered yet in the game. Personally I mostly play the game watching telly and hitting the pause-button a lot.

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 2,383
    The Baldur's Gate games were the last good non-1st person shooter type RPG's. I personally can't take the 1st person camera views in a D&D type setting. I'm admittedly old-school though. When there got to more buttons on the joystick then I have fingers, I lost interest quickly!

  • redlineredline Member Posts: 246
    Nostalgia goggles are powerful tools. Personally, I think there's a lot more fun to be had by taking them off once in a while and appreciating the incredible things that some modern games (such as the aforementioned TW3, which I personally think is a masterpiece) have to offer.

    O_BruceGirewan
  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 345
    redline said:

    Nostalgia goggles are powerful tools. Personally, I think there's a lot more fun to be had by taking them off once in a while and appreciating the incredible things that some modern games (such as the aforementioned TW3, which I personally think is a masterpiece) have to offer.

    Whilst there are some half decent modern RPG's, by and large they fall into the trap of being rushed into release and swamped with DLC/addons in an attempt to further cash out. Back when BG was made it was still the era of games being made by gamers, for gamers. It's extra sad when you factor in the vastly superior tech available to developers, often just used for WOW factor cut scenes rather than creating better immersion/player experience.

  • redlineredline Member Posts: 246
    @Borek I think you're painting with a broad brush and ignoring some of the great RPGs released in recent years (Witcher 3, PoE, Age of Decadence all come immediately to mind, though I know many would disagree with that list). None of those fit the cash-grab DLC mold you're describing.

    It's easy to say "games were better back then" because only the classics have stood the test of time, and all of the utter garbage has been forgotten. We're in the same situation now, but the bad games are harder to overlook because they're fresher in our minds.

    O_BruceThacoBell
  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 345
    redline said:

    @Borek I think you're painting with a broad brush and ignoring some of the great RPGs released in recent years (Witcher 3, PoE, Age of Decadence all come immediately to mind, though I know many would disagree with that list). None of those fit the cash-grab DLC mold you're describing.

    It's easy to say "games were better back then" because only the classics have stood the test of time, and all of the utter garbage has been forgotten. We're in the same situation now, but the bad games are harder to overlook because they're fresher in our minds.

    Oh for sure, there were plenty of bad games back in the good old days, but the investment required to make a half decent RPG is gigantic these days, that forces developers to always be chasing after revenue. Gaming is big business now, unfortunately big business and creativity often become incompatible over time.

    redline
  • O_BruceO_Bruce Member Posts: 2,515
    I very appreciate @redlinge speaking truth about nostalgia.

    ThacoBell
  • redlineredline Member Posts: 246
    Borek said:

    redline said:

    @Borek I think you're painting with a broad brush and ignoring some of the great RPGs released in recent years (Witcher 3, PoE, Age of Decadence all come immediately to mind, though I know many would disagree with that list). None of those fit the cash-grab DLC mold you're describing.

    It's easy to say "games were better back then" because only the classics have stood the test of time, and all of the utter garbage has been forgotten. We're in the same situation now, but the bad games are harder to overlook because they're fresher in our minds.

    Oh for sure, there were plenty of bad games back in the good old days, but the investment required to make a half decent RPG is gigantic these days, that forces developers to always be chasing after revenue. Gaming is big business now, unfortunately big business and creativity often become incompatible over time.
    You're spot on as far as the economics go. Game prices haven't changed in decades despite ballooning development costs, not even adjusting for inflation. It's no surprise that the modern games in my list (and I'd add Divinity:OS 1 and 2 to that as well) were either indie, Kickstarter'd, or (allegedly) put utterly hellish demands on their workers. Your standard retail release pretty much has to resort to post-release paid content in order to turn a profit, which is a huge challenge for single-player RPGs due to the lack of easy multiplayer revenue and the high costs of voicing, animation, etc needed for a story-driven game.

    BG2 was lightning in a bottle in that sense. Bioware employees have been pretty open about the fact that they were really only able to make the game that massive because it was the final days of sprite-based graphics, so content was cheap and easy to create. Modern Bioware supposedly needed to be bought out by EA just to stay afloat, because the tremendous amount of content their fans had grown accustomed to was simply not viable for an independent studio making modern games.

    So I'm contradicting myself a little, I suppose :) . But there are still some great RPGs out there today, if you're willing to give them a chance! They just won't have that familiar, comfort-food quality of the old favorites, so it might take a while to break through.

    BorekThacoBell
  • inkblowoutinkblowout Member Posts: 46
    Having recently played through BG1 and BG2 for my first time, I feel the exact same way as you. It's my favourite game currently and I think it's one of the best RPGs to exist.

    But there are other good RPGs out there which are amazing as well and I urge people to go and try them out. Who knows maybe there will be one game out there which will top BG2. Just how BG2 topped Mass Effect 2 for me, once people start putting games on a pedestal (whether it's nostalgia goggles or favoritism.) it just ruins the gaming experience, not enhances it.

    But I'd have to agree that BG2 does fall in line for one of the best RPGs to exist to this day. It truly is a masterpiece.

    redlineThacoBell
  • MonotremataMonotremata Member Posts: 38
    Aww come on Fallout 4 was awesome!

    Ill agree with Call of Duty though.. Between my Wii and Xbox Ive played them all up to Advanced Warfare which I never finished playing on the XB1. It just got weird, and I wasn't even going to bother with the next one when they went "Space Call of Duty". WW2 looks cool though. Gimme Modern Warfare or another WW2 game and Ill get it.

    BG 1 and 2 were definitely on top of the game when they came out. Theres a reason those of us who loved them when they came out bought the EEs too (I bought 1 and 2 for both PC and Mac and yep bought the EE's yet again). I hold them both very high, in my personal top 10 for sure, but there have been some pretty cool ones that have come out since. BG 1/2 is like the old Ultima series for me. Those to me are the best ones, but its because of personal attachments I have to them (seriously you could argue Ultima 4 or 5, maybe even 7/7 Pt 2 are the best ever because of what they did at the time). That doesnt mean Ill just skip everything else until I see another BG clone come out or something. Those are just the 'standard' I hold them too as far as the fun factor goes when playing an RPG. Icewind Dale wasn't an RPG like BG was, but it was still fun as hell and damn right I bought the EE version of that too just because. Same with Neverwinter Nights. Nothing like BG, but they were still great games. Hopefully I can finally finish NVN 1 with the EE. I made it all the way to the end battle of Hordes of the Underdark (after finishing the original and Shadows of Undrentide) and lost my save game I had before I reattempted it, and I cant even install my old one on an Intel Mac if I had the save still.

  • redlineredline Member Posts: 246
    edited June 2

    Perhaps the emphasis of game developers needs to change


    (Apologies for only quoting one line of your well-written post. I just wanted to address this particular sentiment.)

    It is changing, to an extent. Your comments assume that all modern games are AAA efforts focusing 100% on graphics and spectacle, and while that's certainly true for the heavily marketed, major studio releases, it's certainly not true for the games I mentioned, or for any of the countless indie efforts that small teams are pumping out in record numbers nowadays.

    Whether they're targeting the nostalgia market, operating under economic restraints, or deliberately trying to focus on story like you suggested, there are a lot of modern games - some of them extremely successful - that don't try to simply overwhelm the senses.

    This type of video game discussion mirrors the same convos about music, to a certain extent. People say that music is bad, not like the good old days, and they're unfailingly comparing pop music to some time-tested, genre-defining artist. The fact is, pop music has always been shallow, because that's what people want, but there's quality stuff below the surface if you're willing to dig. Likewise, game devs have always focused on pushing the envelope graphically, often at the expense of other qualities, because that's what markets well and impresses people... but there are always going to be a handful of gems that either defy that trend or somehow manage to meet their era's technical expectations while still making something with a soul.

    Ultimately, we're living in a golden era of video games right now, with a literally overwhelming selection of games for every genre, art style, platform, etc. The big-name releases can be a mess at times, but if you're willing to dig a little, there's a lot of wonderful stuff to play out there.

    ThacoBell
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,910
    @UnderstandMouseMagic One thing to keep in mind is that a Discworld game is going to be targeted at people who read Terry Pratchett. And while I love his books, that is not going to appeal to the target audience for the big titles these days, any more than a Discworld movie would appeal to the people who see Yet Another Predicatble Plotless Superhero Slaptogether! With Alleged Major Stars! Part 3!

    So while it is possible for games with good writing to be made, the major game companies are going to need big titles with proven concepts to make sure they recoup their investments. You get the same thing with movie studios, record labels, television, sports, etc. That is the reality, and at least we have options. No bigger than this city is, I can easily get to three jazz clubs with great food, two blues clubs where I'm unlikely to get in a fight, etc etc etc. I don't care that Country Schlock or PreTeen Pop or whatever sell out the NBA arena and the Corporate Outdoor Music Center. (Unless it screws up traffic, at which point I become Angry Old Guy.) I wish more people appreciated the games, music, books, etc, that I do, but we live in a world where enough people do so I can enjoy them and the artists, programmers, authors, etc, can make a living.

    redlineThacoBell
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