Well, maybe made a Lore check, but migt have found, well, the most tenuous link ever, but the year the Great Tree was discovered in IWD cannon is apparently 1221 dr. The Year of the Frozen Flower is its name on the roll, and it actually is mentioned by name in the Grand History... most years arent worth having their names recorded, so... well, could be somewhere in 'maybe' land, waiting for something official to be made about the region. Spine of the World isnt documented even halfassedly, beyond being described as so dangerous to cross (...thanks Hrothgar for sending us on a suicide mission!) by land OR air. Its understood you cross via the upperdark, sticking mostly to abandoned dwarven territory.
I think it's really odd that they don't make the video game lore canon, but at the same time they make the developer jump through hoops and get approval for every little addition or character. What's the point of all that hard work if none of it is official anyway?
I think it's really odd that they don't make the video game lore canon, but at the same time they make the developer jump through hoops and get approval for every little addition or character. What's the point of all that hard work if none of it is official anyway?
This is the best D&D related question I've seen in some time.
I think it's really odd that they don't make the video game lore canon, but at the same time they make the developer jump through hoops and get approval for every little addition or character. What's the point of all that hard work if none of it is official anyway?
Well, BG is semi-canon. Abdel is anyways, so they wouldnt want to contradict the... wonderful novels. *twitch*
If they don't want to acknowledge specific events of the game I guess I can understand that, but there are a lot of interesting characters and quite a few really memorable locations in IWD and the BG series that deserve inclusion in the greater official world. I think it would be nice if for no other reason than to acknowledge the hard work of those who created the games, and the fans they brought to the Forgotten Realms through the game products.
Given the dwindling number of staff in charge of D&D at this point, though, I imagine it isn't even on the radar to worry about older products. And, canon or not, the games are still fun and those who want to include them in their PnP worlds are free to do so.
Kuldahar lies in the Spine of the World mountains which to the south-east of Icewind Dale. Hence Easthaven (depicted next to Kelvin's Cairn) is in the northwest of the IWD I world map.
In IWD II, you airshipwreck at the western end of the Spine of the World (north of Luskan) and therefore move in an eastern direction in order to reach Kuldahar.
Kuldahar wouldn't be shown on that map, even if it was canon. Because it is east of it. Most of IWD takes place in the uncharted area of the Spine of the World east of the Ten Towns.
I have been there and liked it so It looks pretty "cannon" to me.
That's the best attitude towards such things, IMO. Ultimately all RPG material, 'official or not, are tools a game master can choose to use or not to use. Some company policy seems pretty unimportant to me in that regard.
Kuldahar wouldn't be shown on that map, even if it was canon. Because it is east of it. Most of IWD takes place in the uncharted area of the Spine of the World east of the Ten Towns.
Hm, but in the in-game dialog, the only direction given for the Ten-Towns from Kuldahar, is always "north". For example when you ask Conlan why he does not move away from Kuldahar:
"Ha! I wish that were possible. The southern pass has long since been snowed-in by this damnable weather we've been having lately. Now I hear tell that even the northern route to the Ten Towns has been blocked by an avalanche." - Conlan
Or if you start the HOW quest, but make Hjollder return you to Kuldahar before it is finished, and then talk to him again in Kuldahar:
"Welcome back, heroes. Are you ready to resume our quest?" - Hjollder "Yes. Let us return to the north." - CHARNAME
I suppose Kuldahar could be southeast or south-southeast from the Ten-Towns.
So I found this nice map of north-western Faerûn according to Forgotten Realms lore, and although it does not include Kuldahar or any of the other "Spine of the World" areas of IWD1 (Severed Hand, Dorn's Deep, etc), it does have several landmarks in or near the Spine of the World mountains that we know from IWD2 - including the caravan trail to Luskan (called the "Western Pass" in IWD2), the Ice Lakes and Black Raven River, and the Black Raven Monastery.
I had a go at tracing the IWD2 adventurer's journey from Targos (one of the Ten-Towns) to Kuldahar, on top of an excerpt of the aforementioned map (using the IWD2 game maps as a guide). Here's what I came up with:
The problem is that the path of the last section of the journey, from the Black Raven Monastery to Kuldahar, is unclear. The adventurers enter the Underdark through the crypts of the Black Raven Monastery, then travel a certain distance through the Underdark, and reach the surface again somewhere in the mountains. From there, Oswald picks them up with his airship and flies them to Kuldahar.
It's been a while since I played IWD2, and I don't remember if any more details were given regarding distances/directions/locations of that part of the journey. (Or even why they traveled such a strange route in the first place - what happened to the normal Kuldahar trail a.k.a. Eastern Pass?) If someone is currently playing IWD2, it would be nice if you could keep an eye out for any such details in dialog / journal entries / books / etc. and report back here if you find something.
One important constraint for placing Kuldahar, is that it needs a big valley to its south, where the Severed Hand is located (see the IWD1 world map). But is that valley completely inside the Spine of the World mountains, or is it open to the south? Anyone currently playing IWD1 please keep an eye out for relevant info on that.
PS: For the Ten-Towns region, my favorite zoomed-in map (from the ones I found online), is this one: (click for full image)
What a wonderful map, @ineth! Many thanks for your work!
Since the maps from IWD and IWD II are artistic and somewhat distorted in their perspective, I wouldn't take them too literal.
The northwestern-most of your Kuldahar-locations feels most reasonable to me: It is still relatively close to Icewind Dale proper and the location and direction of the Kuldahar Pass is also the most reasonable (you don't travel a huge distance across the mountains before you reach the pass, I think).
As I see it on Kuldahar being canon: if Abdel is canon and Kuldahar is not, then I have 0 respect or time for worrying about anything being canon. Because at that point canon means squat when it comes to quality.
ineth's "favorite" map is a good place to start in placing everything. Kuldahar, and the valley south of it, are actually outside the Dale/Ten Towns area. The original manual (I got it in .pdf format with my first purchase of the game) has a similar map, but shows Kuldahar south and slightly east of Easthaven. I'd post the map, but the quality is pretty lousy. The game may not be "canon," but at least Black Isle felt it was important to give it a specific location.
Timewise: "...the game itself takes place in Eleint, 1281 DR, Year of the Cold Soul. (This is sixteen years prior to Drizzt's arrival on the surface, as mentioned in the Icewind Dale Trilogy of books by R.A. Salvatore) Your characters will be literally making historyas they adventure through the game, and their actions may be felt for decades and centuries ahead..."
Comments
So, this is a rabbit hole then...
But indeed, Kuldahar is an awesome location!
Given the dwindling number of staff in charge of D&D at this point, though, I imagine it isn't even on the radar to worry about older products. And, canon or not, the games are still fun and those who want to include them in their PnP worlds are free to do so.
WHAT? This place, this beautiful place with beautiful music is not there?
Of course, I vote with both arms to make it canonized!
In IWD II, you airshipwreck at the western end of the Spine of the World (north of Luskan) and therefore move in an eastern direction in order to reach Kuldahar.
For example when you ask Conlan why he does not move away from Kuldahar:
"Ha! I wish that were possible. The southern pass has long since been snowed-in by this damnable weather we've been having lately. Now I hear tell that even the northern route to the Ten Towns has been blocked by an avalanche." - Conlan
Or if you start the HOW quest, but make Hjollder return you to Kuldahar before it is finished, and then talk to him again in Kuldahar:
"Welcome back, heroes. Are you ready to resume our quest?" - Hjollder
"Yes. Let us return to the north." - CHARNAME
I suppose Kuldahar could be southeast or south-southeast from the Ten-Towns.
I had a go at tracing the IWD2 adventurer's journey from Targos (one of the Ten-Towns) to Kuldahar, on top of an excerpt of the aforementioned map (using the IWD2 game maps as a guide). Here's what I came up with:
The problem is that the path of the last section of the journey, from the Black Raven Monastery to Kuldahar, is unclear. The adventurers enter the Underdark through the crypts of the Black Raven Monastery, then travel a certain distance through the Underdark, and reach the surface again somewhere in the mountains. From there, Oswald picks them up with his airship and flies them to Kuldahar.
It's been a while since I played IWD2, and I don't remember if any more details were given regarding distances/directions/locations of that part of the journey. (Or even why they traveled such a strange route in the first place - what happened to the normal Kuldahar trail a.k.a. Eastern Pass?)
If someone is currently playing IWD2, it would be nice if you could keep an eye out for any such details in dialog / journal entries / books / etc. and report back here if you find something.
One important constraint for placing Kuldahar, is that it needs a big valley to its south, where the Severed Hand is located (see the IWD1 world map). But is that valley completely inside the Spine of the World mountains, or is it open to the south? Anyone currently playing IWD1 please keep an eye out for relevant info on that.
PS: For the Ten-Towns region, my favorite zoomed-in map (from the ones I found online), is this one:
Since the maps from IWD and IWD II are artistic and somewhat distorted in their perspective, I wouldn't take them too literal.
The northwestern-most of your Kuldahar-locations feels most reasonable to me: It is still relatively close to Icewind Dale proper and the location and direction of the Kuldahar Pass is also the most reasonable (you don't travel a huge distance across the mountains before you reach the pass, I think).
Timewise: "...the game itself takes place in Eleint, 1281 DR, Year of the Cold Soul. (This is sixteen years prior to Drizzt's arrival on the surface, as mentioned in the Icewind Dale Trilogy of books by R.A. Salvatore) Your characters will be literally making historyas they adventure through the game, and their actions may be felt for decades and centuries ahead..."