Sorcerer (a few questions)
Luciphear
Member Posts: 4
So I've been playing for a while as a Sorcerer, and I feel a bit lost.
According to guides, FAQs and a little bit of my own memory, in BG2 Sorcerers started out with choosing several spells in various levels of spells. However, in BG:EE they seem to only start out with 2(or was it 3?) LV1 spells(castable 3 times).
This leads me to wonder how many spells the character will end up with in the end? Is it still the same amount as in the original BG2, or is something altered?
Right now I'm sort of considering re-rerolling as a mage since I'm afraid that Sorcerer will deprive me of the fun of variety in spells. Sometimes I like having spells because I can, like summon something once in a while not because it's useful, but because it's fun. What I liked about the mage was that you could read up on scrolls and then you could just pick the poison of your choice.
Sorcerers however, reason I rolled one is because I much prefer their "memorization". They don't have to memorize specific spells, but instead get a certain amount of casts.
Also, will the sorcerer unlock the Lv9 spell level? I've tried reading up on this but I seem to find different answers to it, some say yes, others no. Same goes for intelligence and all that, it's quite confusing since it mostly refers to the original BG2, yet BG:EE shows quite a lot of difference.
TL;DR
*Sorcerers, how many spells do they achieve and is there a sheet of it or anything? (differs from Original BG2 it seems)
*Are sorcerers affected by Intelligence or any other stat? (does according to the description, but people say otherwise, although from Orig.BG2
*Are sorcerers a bit too hardcore for someone like me who fancies spells which doesn't hold much use besides being pretty cool/fun to use? Would a Mage be a better choice? (Wild mages are fun as hell but I sort of like having Neera around.)
Thanks in advance
According to guides, FAQs and a little bit of my own memory, in BG2 Sorcerers started out with choosing several spells in various levels of spells. However, in BG:EE they seem to only start out with 2(or was it 3?) LV1 spells(castable 3 times).
This leads me to wonder how many spells the character will end up with in the end? Is it still the same amount as in the original BG2, or is something altered?
Right now I'm sort of considering re-rerolling as a mage since I'm afraid that Sorcerer will deprive me of the fun of variety in spells. Sometimes I like having spells because I can, like summon something once in a while not because it's useful, but because it's fun. What I liked about the mage was that you could read up on scrolls and then you could just pick the poison of your choice.
Sorcerers however, reason I rolled one is because I much prefer their "memorization". They don't have to memorize specific spells, but instead get a certain amount of casts.
Also, will the sorcerer unlock the Lv9 spell level? I've tried reading up on this but I seem to find different answers to it, some say yes, others no. Same goes for intelligence and all that, it's quite confusing since it mostly refers to the original BG2, yet BG:EE shows quite a lot of difference.
TL;DR
*Sorcerers, how many spells do they achieve and is there a sheet of it or anything? (differs from Original BG2 it seems)
*Are sorcerers affected by Intelligence or any other stat? (does according to the description, but people say otherwise, although from Orig.BG2
*Are sorcerers a bit too hardcore for someone like me who fancies spells which doesn't hold much use besides being pretty cool/fun to use? Would a Mage be a better choice? (Wild mages are fun as hell but I sort of like having Neera around.)
Thanks in advance
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Comments
Quote from the Site above:
"Sorcerers give up a greater variety of known spells, but in return they are not required to prepare any of the spells they do know and can cast more spells per day. Should you make a sorcerer, make sure to pick spells that scale well such as magic missile, fireball, haste, stoneskin, etc. Avoid things that do NOT scale well like sleep, blind, etc. You may want to skip out on any spell you can cast from a wand (horror, sleep, fireball, etc.) as wands are plentiful and it will make you more versatile. Remember that you CAN still cast spells from scrolls. This comes in handy for Baldur's Gate 2 as you can simply use a find familiar scroll instead of wasting a known spell on a one-time use spell. On a side-note, sorcerers do NOT work as they do in 3rd edition (where they rely on Charisma). In fact, they do not really rely on any stat (other than the obvious Dexterity and Constitution). Intelligence does not give them more spells per day, nor does it make their spellcasting more powerful. Because of this, Sorcerers are good charisma monkeys should you make one, and you can afford to spread points between strength, intelligence, and wisdom in order to keep all of them decently high instead of the usual min-maxing involved with most other character classes. While Charisma and Intelligence do not bolster your abilities to cast spells, they still have high minimums of 9 so you couldn't make them true dump stats even if you wanted to.
Because of their limited library of spells, it's not a good idea to make a Sorcerer your primary spellcaster. Especially later in Baldur's Gate 2, the distinctive mage fencing duels where 3 spells are needed to remove specific protections put up by each mage or creature will leave Sorcerers at a distinct disadvantage to their more well-read brethren. Sorcerers carve out a very comfortable niche as the party's second caster, though. A Mage and a Sorcerer can typically out-cast two Mages of equal skill. Sorcerers are also better support casters, able to quickly renew a critical spell like Haste if it gets unexpectedly dispelled.
Humans, elves, and half-elves can be sorcerers. However, there is no multi- or dual-class option so there no reasons not to be an elf as they have superior racial advantages.
Recommended Spells to know per level
Level 1: Magic Missile and Shield are musts. Spook scales well toward the end of the game and offers you a way to CC a single target at your leisure. Pick your final two spells between protection from evil, identification, and charm person depending on your needs.
Level 2: Mirror Image is one of the best defensive spells in the game let alone for this level. Blur is also useful for the bonus saving throw if not the extra AC. Melf's Acid Arrow is the best damage spell at this level should you feel you need it. A more support oriented sorcerer might want Vocalize and Remove Fear. They are situational spells but having the multiple casts in case the effects are dispelled or enemies re-debuff your characters is handy. A sorcerer more focused on debuffing enemies should go for Web and Horror.
Level 3: Dispel Magic is an important spell to pick up at this level for both offensive and defensive purposes. Haste is a must-get spell at this level as it is such a universally helpful skill to whip out in every combat situation. Skull Trap is preferred to Fireball because it does not have an elemental association with it and does not hardcap at 10d6 (meaning it will eventually do more damage.) Slow is a great debuff spell at this level and is a good choice.
Level 4: Stoneskin is easily the most important spell at 4th level because it basically makes you immune to attacks for a certain number of hits. Emotion is a handy spell as it essentially serves as Remove Fear and Horror in one spell. Otiluke's Resilient Sphere can be used for some significantly cheesy effects, making the target immune to everything for a turn (good to drop on a character who will almost guaranteed die and you don't have time to heal him). A sorcerer focused on debuffing may want to pick up greater malision to help the rest of your casters land spells on enemies with high saving throws. Secret Word is a good final spell to learn because you can use it to strip enemy spellcasters of their anti-magic protections, one round at a time.
Level 5: Lower Resistance is a must especially on a sorcerer because when you do need it, casting it multiple times is essential. Breach is a great anti-defense spell severely inhibiting enemy mages and clerics from magically defending themselves. If you want to choose a summoning spell, Summon Monster 3 is preferred out of the list. Cone of Cold is probably the best overall damage spell at this level.
Level 6: If you didn't pick up either Lower Resistance or Secret Word, get Pierce Magic as it is a combination of both of them. Pick either Chain Lightning OR Death Fog as a damage spell. True Sight is a must because disabling enemy spellcaster illusions is key to many encounters in BG2.
Levels 7 and up: I will leave this in your hands. Basically don't take spells that are redundant with your earlier level spells. "
On the Same page you find your progression table, and yes you will be able to cast level 9 spells as long as you get level 18 and probably have the necessary amount of Intelligence.
It basicly says, Sorcers are quite fun but specialized pick your spells careful, mage offer a greater variaty and since you like spell switching I would advise against a sorcerer.
About variety of spells: on every level there is only 2-4 really good spells( well Lv9 is exception, but still i can easy pick 4 spells and don't fell bad for other spells) and there is High Level Abilities that too use 9th level slot, it's better if you can use spell that you need and not that you think you need( in mages case). If you really want to use other spells, use nps mages ( it's better to have 2 arcane magic users in party ( like main hero is sorcerer and use Neera for other spells if you need)).
About Intelligence: sorcerer don't need it despite game description. About stats you need 16 con for 2 more hp per level, 18 dex for bonus 4 AC, and 15 wis if you want to use Lv9 wish spell, well 10+ str so you can carry equipment. And that's it, you don't need int and cha.
My sorcerer stats is 12 str, 18 dex, 18 con, 18 wis, 9 int, 9 cha (sorcerer can't have int and cha lover than 9). It's only 84 point, you can roll better ( i don't botter because i cover all my needs). If you want discount in shop just use nps with high cha.
So well as you can see in my opinion sorcerer much better than mage.
Also, you have no required stats. Though if you plan to use Wish in the sequel, 18 int and at least 14 wisdom are recommended at creation. You'll want to have 18 of both at minimum before casting Wish. You could use potions to pump your stats, but I dislike being that reliant on consumables.
11+/18/15/18/14/13 would be awesome if you can get it. (Get the charisma and con tomes ASAP, and learn friends for your optional spell in the list below for maximum shop discount and full con hp per level)
If you don't care about charisma, pump your str with whatever is left for more carry weight.
You end up with 6 castings per day per spell level + any extras from items that give extra castings (Ring of Wizardy would allow for 12 castings of 1st level spells per day). You'll end with about 5 known spells up to 3rd and then they peeter off as the spell level goes up. And since sorcerer's don't get 5th level spells till lvl 10 (unlike a mage), you'll never get them.
At higher levels you'll eventually have 5 known spells of each spell level up to ....7th I think. And 4 per spell level for 8th and 9th.
In recommended Order of acquisition.
For 1st level spells, (Spook, shield, blind, [burning hands/friends/Prot from evil, pick one], Magic Missile).
Normally I'd recommend sleep but it goes from being OP in BG1 to useless in BG2...and you can't unlearn spells, so it's better to just cast it from the wand of sleep instead. Protection from petrifaction is also very useful in BG1, but almost worthless in BG2, so just have another spell caster handle it.
Spook serves a similar purpose, but only effects 1 character, but has a growing save penalty that allows it to remain useful as crowd control through the whole saga. Shield casts quickly (almost instantly), gives better AC then Armor spell, but shorter duration and blocks magic missile. Blind is useful for melee targets or mages, or one or two archers strong enough to warrant it, but it has no save penalty, so you'll need doom and/or greater malison to get to it stick at higher levels in the sequel. The optional spells include, backup troll finisher, allows maximum shop discount if you have 14 charisma, or very nice vs demons in the sequel). And lastly Magic Missile, which by the time you pick it last should be at or near full strength and finally useful. It just doesn't deal enough damage prior to 4 missiles to be worth casting, and depending on the enemy might be a waste anyway (it's mostly here to abuse in sequencers later).
2nd level. Web, horror, mirror image, invisibility (or Acid arrow), either knock or resist fear depending on your thief.
Web is just awesome since parties will be ranged heavy early on, and one you get something for your front liners to ignore webs, it gets even better (since Acid arrow doesn't stack anymore, patched out in the 2nd BG1 patch if memory serves, it's not nearly as OP as it was..but might work better for you, I haven't really had much luck with it, except as an emergency troll killer). Horror is nice for crowd control. Mirror image keeps you safe if stray arrows are a concern. Invisibility is just nice to have. Resist fear removes fear and make targets immune to fear for a few rounds, or knock if your thief has crappy open locks (handy if you plan to dual Immy)
3rd. Slow, haste, skull trap, Melf's Meteor's, dispel or flame arrow, if someone else can dispel
Slow is god, -4 save penalty, hits a group, -4 thac0/+4 AC/ Attack speed 10...awesome. Haste, 2x movement speed, extra attack, effects whole group (though triples fatigue usage). Skull trap, deals magic rather then fire, awesome, has no damage cap like fireball, but that doesn't matter till the sequel. It has shorter range, but can also be set without exploding and luring enemies into it (like Delayed blast fireball, except level 3 instead of 7), it's NOT party friendly so takes some practice to use effectively. Melf's Meteor's have 5 attacks per round (you get 1 meteor to throw per level if memory serves), can hit as +5 (i.e. any enemy now or later), and deal ok damage. Dispel is nice but might not be needed (Staff of the magi and Carsomyr in the sequel dispel on hit, as well as Inquisitor dispel is better..also clerics have WAY more 3rd level slots and not a whole lot of other useful options). Flame arrow on the other hand is just a heavy hitting single target spell. Nice in the sequel when you're firing 4-5 4d6 fire arrows (very nice for later sequencers as well).
4th: Greater Malison, polymorph self, stoneskin, minor sequencer, improved invisibility.
GM is essential, reduces a group of enemies saves by -4 and makes save spells stick a LOT better. Polymorph Self has a form that is impervious to magic, excellent for killing mages and liches with, also ogre form hits like a truck in melee, sword spider form has haste, 5 attacks per round and poisons (but is NOT immune to web like the Avenger's version is). Minor sequencer allows MM to be useful since you can set aside 2 of them to be cast at once later. Stoneskin, is just awesome, And improved invisibility makes you untargetable by spells for 4 rounds after action (unless the target can see through it) and increases AC by 4 as well.
5th: You shouldn't get any, but in case you do somehow, Cloudkill, breach, Spell Immunity, animate dead, lower resistance.
Breach removes Protection from magical weapons, and other melee weapon protection, needed. Cloudkill will instant kill nearly every enemy in BG1 or have a chance to kill, and against truly powerful targets still deals gradual poison damage (by-passes most spell protections). Spell immunity allows you to become immune to any school of magic of your choice. Handy vs "certain enemies" later in the sequel. Animate dead is pretty crappy for a lot of the game, but at 15+ in the sequel it gives some AWESOME skeleton warriors that hit hard, are nigh immune to magic, and can take quite a few hits if the enemy doesn't have magical blunt weapons. And lower resistance is handy for..well..lowering magic resistance...while there are some enemies that it's good against in BG1, it'll most shine in the sequel....
Mages are probably "better" for BG1 because it's so easy to rest in between combats spells per day is less important than versaility. Plus, mages hit level 5 spells while sorcerers do not.
Sorcerers are still really good, though. I think they make the best debuff bots in the game because if the enemy makes their save, you can just cast it over and over til it does work, and if they DON'T make their save you can switch it up to something else.
With proper spell picks, you can handle every situation as a sorcerer, though it does require good knowledge of spells are absolutely required for a such a thing (Solo sorcerer runs, with good spell picks are the easiest of single class caster runs)