Overall I like the Game; However Making Black Pit Apart=Bad/ DON'T do similar in BG 2 Enhanced

Beowulf

I like the game overall- ok did crash a few times but I can not recall that occurring since the patch...also D twin Sword clown is not averse to jogging around the lake now.... I can not say I like the new portraits much though - look like impressionistic blahh as opposed tot he original airbrushes...


However- I began the Black Pitts for maybe 1 minute - and after checking up on things I realize it is NOT new content added to the game as a whole. I much rather it was not even created then. I suppose it would be a great deal of work to smoothly attach that in to the main game... regardless I am miffed that this was created for nothing. I realize some of you are RTS players... however I did not buy this game for RTS combat....

Be advised I do NOT want the game Creators to make a similar separate piece of content for BG 2 enhanced. Either do not create any thing like it or make it so it attaches to the regular campaign.

Overall though it is a fine bloody hunks of meat chopping game - but I want you all to recall there is much much more blood in a body than that and real life conflict is rather a bother when a Marine is down and screaming in agony... Cheers and hope it is all swell for you...

LuciusDei

I think it's like that because of that awful contract they have. They are restricted to what they can actually put into the game:

AndreaColombo said:

Beamdog / Overhaul also face contractual limitations regarding the addition of new content to the existing games. They can build new content as "expansions", but they cannot add to the core content in the main title. This limitation is due to the contracts for the original source content and limit the devs from adding new conversation for existing characters to the main game. Hence, adding banters, inerjections and romances to the original cast of characters is unfortunately not feasible. They will interact with new NPCs and react to new situations and areas, but that's about it.

Beowulf

Mmm really Lucius I did not know that... but yes there a million RTS games out there not the slightest interest in playing a BG one... hope they can do some copyright treating for BG2 if they want to add in new stuff like that then....

LuciusDei

Yeah. Sadly it's the worst contract in history. They can't do much with it. I don't know if you saw my edit before you posted, but that quote sums it a lot of what they can't do (other than changing the graphics, too.)

AHF

LuciusDei said:

I think it's like that because of that awful contract they have. They are restricted to what they can actually put into the game:

AndreaColombo said:

Beamdog / Overhaul also face contractual limitations regarding the addition of new content to the existing games. They can build new content as "expansions", but they cannot add to the core content in the main title. This limitation is due to the contracts for the original source content and limit the devs from adding new conversation for existing characters to the main game. Hence, adding banters, inerjections and romances to the original cast of characters is unfortunately not feasible. They will interact with new NPCs and react to new situations and areas, but that's about it.

Actually, this makes it easy to integrate into the game. They can do expansions ala Durlag's Tower, etc. This means they could have done the black pits as its own area within the game either as an area like the tower or as a separate piece to which you travel like the island with the werewolves.

I am sure there is a reason why they chose this format, but it wasn't due either to contrual limitations (if the quote is accurate) or technical difficulty (because half the BG1 and BG2 mods adding content integrate that into the game without difficulty).

mch202

Actually a lot of people like The Black Pits, which is nice addition to the game, If you don't like just don't play it.

Also take into account that they yet to reveal 'Adventure Y' which is an adventure which supposed to be bhallspawn-story related which will be integrated with the main campaign. There is a room for everyone.

Ekital

Honestly I like the way it's setup now. I rather prefer having it as a standalone expansion then it being incorporated into the main game. I prefer having a powergaming type of arena set battles on the side and my normal rp character within the bg storyline. I feel like black pits are meant to be a challenge and are supposed to be played separately. I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion and I believe it being standalone is perfect because it separates the two distinct types of play: roleplaying and hardcore/strategic gaming.

LuciusDei

@AHF Ah, I read it as it had to be outside of the main game, but I see what you're saying, there. Makes sense.

I wonder if they weren't allowed to use the existing NPCs in a completely new scenario, so they needed it to be separate so that you would need to make a completely new party. I'm sure that filthy contract is lurking there, beneath the surface somewhere.

Foerthan

The Black Pits allow for a higher XP cap than the main campaign, which is possibly part of the reason that it was separated. Going by the ending, it also looks like they plan on expanding on it eventually.

Regardless, I like it how it is. I've been through it three times now (two times solo, once with a party) and had a lot of fun with it. I personally think the mechanics of it wouldn't meld very well into the main campaign setting as you wouldn't be able to leave until you finish it completely. Think about accidentally getting into it with just CHARNAME and Imoen - there are a lot of class combos for CHARNAME that would make it almost (if not) literally impossible to complete. So, I think it's better this way, but that's just my opinion.

Edit: Also, the balance of the main game would be completely ruined after doing it. Everyone would be at or near level cap, so if you go to it relatively early, everything else becomes an absolute breeze. Not to mention the massive amounts of magic items and gold you can quite easily stockpile if you so choose.

Dalis918

Hey, if we're lucky, the sales will be awesome enough to make a revision of the contract up for grabs! Especially for BGII (BGIII? ) Icewind Dale I+2 and PS:T.

We can always hope and dream and to be honest I'll be surprised if the sales of this weren't awesomely high.

Troika

I agree, it should have been integrated into the actual game. I don't think it has anything to do with the contract either (a dev correct me if I'm wrong), they probably just ran out of time and went with this solution.

geselle

Actually the black pit should have been both. A subquest in BG:EE and a standalone. The arena crowd would be pleased, while we also have a subquest. Still one problem would remain: monster scaling

Rhyme

The only thing I'd really like to see different about The Black Pits is to put it in a sub-folder on the menu. I love it as a separate, standalone adventure that doesn't wreck the game-balance of BG1, and with all the talk we've heard about modders being able to build their own maps/quests/adventures from scratch, it would be very helpful to have a sub-menu from which to load those separate adventures, with The Black Pits being an official example of what could be done.

bbear

I prefer it to be part of the game, just like how they integrate the watcher's keep into bg2. Certainly it can ruin the exp level of the game, but players have the option of not to do that. Why not give other players the option to power play?

Beowulf

Ahh good example - Yes actually I would often play Watchers Keep very early on jump up in levels quickly and then smash through the regular content at level 19-20ish... but it was more enjoyable for me like that... So yes agree would have been good to make the Black Pits watcher Keepish with a cut scene and some guy at the start advising you about the content- like the priest of helm says to you when you are low level and about to enter the TOB expansion dungeon...

sterrius

hope someone to create a mod that let you play the black pits inside the campaing. (i dont think its impossible).

jasiekzar

For me, the best thing about BG saga is that you create your character at the beginning of the game and then you go with him through many adventures: first Candlekeep, Beregost, Nashkeel, BG, Ulgoth's, then Athkatla, Trademeet, Underdark, Saradush, Amkhetran... It's the multitude of different places your character (and his friends) travels through like you were in a story with a beginning and an end.

By adding new content separate from the game I am offered to play in fact another game which I don't want to because it's not the part of the story. It's also too short for me to make another story like for example the two parts of Ice Wind Dale.

I, of course, bought the game, just like I will buy every project that tries to revive the best game I have ever played and part of my childhood. I however beg the makers of bg2ee to make the map there a bit more crowded; it was crowded enough in BG1 even without the Black Pits, it won't be in BG2 because of the very limited number of locations. Of course, if the contract allows you to. Maybe there's way to change it a bit and add some new small town?

Beowulf

Wow jasiekzar I agree - story connection is where it is at - the separate content was just that apart from the story...perhaps they could have added the black pitts option after you completed the easy chapters... I mean if i really want to powergame I can try and obtain a wand to paralyze or fireball enemy while still level one so it is not really about me wanting to get awesome loot in the Pitts more of me just wanting a fun extra seamless experience = So YES to a new Town/City/Area in BG 2 - and a big please NO to yet another separate arena RTS game... (does this count as dead post resurrection? - the nazi Blizzard Forum mod guys hate that - sorry not on the internet 24/7 have a job...)

Chow

The Black Pits, while fun, would've fit much better for something more combat-heavy such as Icewind Dale. From Baldur's Gate I was expecting a little more story and other stuff to do than fight things.

That's just my two cents. Carry on.

Edit: Also, devs, keep arguing about the contract! Try and get the lawyers and fools in charge of this thing to know that having this kind of crushing conditions won't help anyone at all, there's no reason for it, and it will just bind their hands from making the game as great as it could be.

Mordeus

The details surrounding the contract is really quite confusing. You'd think that since they added quest content for Dorn, Rashaad and Neera into the main game, that they could have added in The Black Pits to the main map like Durlag's Tower.

Unless the contract stipulates that any major expansion to the game must come in the form of a Throne of Bhaal type expansion. Where it must be accessed externally. Either way the blame lies with whoever wrote up that horrible contract. Hopefully Wizards of the Coast will see the error of their ways and allow Overhaul some creative liabilities in the future.

Hopefully they can integrate Adventure Y into the main game but I suspect that might end up being accessed externally too.