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What's the point of an overdeity AO?

IntoTheDarknessIntoTheDarkness Member Posts: 118

AO is neither a bystander nor a player; it is both. It feels too much like a personified figure of Wizard of the Coast. When they need to *retcon* lore, they use AO as an excuse. AO also serves as an overseer of gods and mortals.

What's the point of any adventures or any power struggles between gods if there is one overdeity that is absolute and has its own agenda? Bhaalspawn saga is based on the premise that AO forbid any deities' intervention to the event, which doesn't really make much sense to me. Why doesn't AO just select a candidate to replace Bhaal?

And gods are forbidden by AO from exercising too much influence over the mortal world; one can't just strike a disbeliever with lightening, or eliminate rival gods' followers. But Bhaal fathered hundreds of offsprings that caused massive wars and altered fates of many people. I would consider that 'too much inflence' over the mortal world. Why would AO even allow that? If gods are allowed to give birth to hundreds of powerful offsprings, why can't evil gods be allowed to throw a ligntening to Drizzt and kill him at their whim?

I don't like AO and the existence of too many gods in D&D realm. WC is incapable of simulating all gods' schemes so they place AO as an overseer that forbids gods from fighting each other all the time. They are also incapable of keeping the mortal world in one piece if various gods start meddling with mortals' affair; so they again use AO as an excuse for gods not interfering with mortals. All these setting feel to artificial to me, especially AO; it's not a character, but rather a plot device employed to keep balance of D&D world.



Comments

  • RythgarRythgar Member Posts: 101
    As I udnerstand it, and detailed in the Avatar Series of novels, Ao is not the end of the line; there is a power above him.

    Ao, as a plot device, can easily be used as a deus ex machina, but I personally have never seen it done. To me, Ao is simply the writers leaving themselves room to explore the nature of the deities in the Realms without boxing themselves in a corner too often. Ao's decree about the Bhaalspawn is what it is, just like his decree resulting in the Time of Troubles: he keeps the other gods in check, and occasionally has to assert his authority.
  • LadyEibhilinRhettLadyEibhilinRhett Member Posts: 1,078
    What do you mean "the D&D world"? There are multiple worlds and settings. I am p. sure this is only an issue in the Forgotten Realms, and possibly several other campaign settings set on Abeir-Toril.
    Also. The only reason Bhaal was able to do that under the restrictions in place was because he did it during the Time of Troubles, when all bets were totes off, and lets face it Bhaal is not the only one who tried some crazy shit during the good ol' ToT. He was just the one who planned for and executed it the best.


    But anyways, Ao is just there to be a huge douche and watch everything with a soda in one hand and some popcorn in the other and watch the fireworks explode.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    @LadyEibhilinRhett
    Hey, now! I don't drink soda while I do that.
  • KomarrKomarr Member Posts: 80
    WotC is in the story telling business. For them AO is a Deus ex Machina ( tho in this case it might be Deus ex Deus). He's a literary device to resolve seemingly unsolvable problem. It isn't uncommon, particularly in situations where you have multiple authors involved. Look at comic books. For literally decades writers of characters like Superman fixed have problems in their own stories or retconned other writers stories through the device of giving ol' Supes some new power out of thin air such as reversing the flow of time, super-ventriloquism or super-weaving. And no I didn't make any of those up.

    Yes, a mark of a good writer is one that doesn't write him or herself into a corner. But it happens, as I said particularly where you have more then one writer involved. So they need a way to deal with it.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    Ao is a story device to enable a story about the "Time of Troubles". There had to be an overdeity capable of throwing down the other deities.

    There is precedent for the idea of a "Creator" of existence who cannot interfere directly in His creation lest He destroy it.

    I've seen it used in the "Thomas Covenant" series of novels. It is also used in the "Belgariad" series of novels upon which my screen name is based, where the "Creators" are seen as two opposing "Prophecies", who cannot directly interfere in their Creation, but who influence it through the actions of several "good" and "evil" "gods", as well as a second tier of powerful mortals, plus the combined actions of all the common mortals who worship the "gods".
  • LordsDarkKnight185LordsDarkKnight185 Member Posts: 615
    FYI...AO was actually a TSR plot device, before WOTC took over >.>

    And AO DID select a candidate to replace Bhaal...his name is Cyric. Dont F*** with Cyric.
  • reedmilfamreedmilfam Member Posts: 2,808
    Ao is the god of Xan. There is no point. That is the point!
  • AraminaAramina Member Posts: 64
    @LadyEibhilinRhett Huh, I'd always though Bhaal had started fathering kids way before the ToT. Otherwise how does that explain the full-sized dragon child with full-sized offspring of his own? (Yes, I know they're part dragon, but their "dragon forms" sure looked adult sized to me). Or any of his elven/drow/longer life-span kids?
  • LordsDarkKnight185LordsDarkKnight185 Member Posts: 615
    edited December 2012
    Aramina said:

    @LadyEibhilinRhett Huh, I'd always though Bhaal had started fathering kids way before the ToT. Otherwise how does that explain the full-sized dragon child with full-sized offspring of his own? (Yes, I know they're part dragon, but their "dragon forms" sure looked adult sized to me). Or any of his elven/drow/longer life-span kids?

    (Edit...I was wrong, I checked the timeline)

    Bhaal visioned his own death 12 years before the TOT...SO longer-life-span bhaalspawn make absolutely no sense.
  • IkMarcIkMarc Member Posts: 552
    AO and the rest of the gods are just based on Eru (Iluvatar) and the Ainur, from Tolkien's work, just like 90% of the D&D world and stories. Does that matter? No, its still pretty cool and literature in general consists of the same stories being told in different ways anyway. By the way, try exercising these kinds of questions on actual religions in the world and you will face some real inconsistencies.

    Anyway, don't take it too serious and just enjoy the game... :D
  • IntoTheDarknessIntoTheDarkness Member Posts: 118
    edited December 2012
    IkMarc said:

    AO and the rest of the gods are just based on Eru (Iluvatar) and the Ainur, from Tolkien's work, just like 90% of the D&D world and stories. Does that matter? No, its still pretty cool and literature in general consists of the same stories being told in different ways anyway. By the way, try exercising these kinds of questions on actual religions in the world and you will face some real inconsistencies.

    Anyway, don't take it too serious and just enjoy the game... :D


    Yeah, many stories from scriptures could be really weird... they were written thousands of years ago though.



    What bothers me is that my character's adventure dwindles in significance because of presence of too many gods. After Bhaal's death, Cyric can simply kill all Bhaalspawn(including the protagonist) and claim Bhaal's power because no mortals can oppose the power of a god. What's stopping him? A plot device of a decree from an overdeity who supposedly remain a spectator in most other matters of forgotten realms but this Bhaalspawn crisis. It feels almost as if all my adventures should be credited to AO and other gods who 'let me' live.
  • AraminaAramina Member Posts: 64
    @IntoTheDarkness I seem to remember in ToB Cyric half-mentioning that it was more than just Ao's order that held him back; he didn't want to provoke a war with Mystra and Kelemvor specifically. It always sat better with me that fear of retaliation was the real reason none of Bhaal kids were killed rather than Ao's orders. That was just his excuse to make himself feel better ^^
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