Joinable NPC lvl when joining party

Ashendil

Aren't joinable NPCs supposed to have a similar lvl as the PC when joining the party? My lvl 3 PC seems to keep picking up lvl 1 NPCs.

Luthore

In general yes, but it depends on the NPC in question. I believe this chart is still accurate.
http://www.forgottenwars.com/bg1/good.htm

However, In your case it seems strange because at level 3 any NPC should be at least above level 2.

Wanderon

I believe the level is set the first time you talk them also even if you don't pick them up at that point.

Ashendil

Well, Kagain just joined my group - the amazing thing about that being that I had never ever met him before in my 6+ go-throughs - and he has like 150XP

Metal_Hurlant

I've noticed the NPCs are starting at level 1 as well. In the original game, most of the NPCs will start at a higher level similar to your level when you pick them up.

The only good thing about this is that you can get max hp for the NPCs which is good from a powergaming perspective. Otherwise, it's another thing that's been changed from the original game.

Luthore

Just to clarify, is EVERY npc starting at level 1? Regardless of player level, some NPCs start at a higher level. For example: Ajantis, Alora, Coran, Kivan, Yeslick, Branwen, Faldorn, Quayle, Safana, Skie, Xan, Eldoth, Shar-Teel, Tiax, and Viconia; All start at level 2 or higher.

You said you picked up Kagain with 150xp, I'm assuming this means that the other NPCs have their min XP amounts as well and are level 1?

Metal_Hurlant said:

I've noticed the NPCs are starting at level 1 as well. In the original game, most of the NPCs will start at a higher level similar to your level when you pick them up.

The only good thing about this is that you can get max hp for the NPCs which is good from a powergaming perspective. Otherwise, it's another thing that's been changed from the original game.

All NPCs still should be following a level scaling similar to the one in the link I posted earlier. Personally I've run around with a higher leveled character and have found the NPCs scaled up accordingly. Unfortunately, I would much prefer to have the problem of only finding the lowest level version of an NPC since it gives me greater control over shaping their progression.

EDIT: It would be nice if this was implemented as a game option. Some how disabling the game's internal player level check when spawning a joinable NPC and consequently giving you a low level one for your party. OR making it so that if you accept them into the party the revert to their low level equivalent...

Daelric

Wanderon said:

I believe the level is set the first time you talk them also even if you don't pick them up at that point.

This has to be correct because when Dorn rebukes you at the FAI, if you still deny him after the fight in Nashel, and then try to pick him up much later which is what I did, he was at level 1. I wonder if there is ever a scenario where he starts at a higher level?

Quartz

Ashendil said:

Well, Kagain just joined my group - the amazing thing about that being that I had never ever met him before in my 6+ go-throughs - and he has like 150XP

Good. Otherwise his HP rolls are stupid.

LadyEibhilinRhett

@Luthore
Holy shit. I just looked through these charts, and I was shocked to see how bad some of the higher leveled versions of the characters were. I never knew that default level 6 Xan had less max HP than Alora. . -c .

Quartz

LadyEibhilinRhett said:

@Luthore
Holy shit. I just looked through these charts, and I was shocked to see how bad some of the higher leveled versions of the characters were. I never knew that default level 6 Xan had less max HP than Alora. . -c .

I use NearInfinity to edit a few of them to having more favorable HP. As you insinuate, Alora's HP is bloody awful.

For me that DOES unfortunately include lowering Coran's. If you pick him up at Level 3/3 he has 29 HP even though his max possible would be 27 HP.

Mechalibur

Luthore said:

In general yes, but it depends on the NPC in question. I believe this chart is still accurate.
http://www.forgottenwars.com/bg1/good.htm

However, In your case it seems strange because at level 3 any NPC should be at least above level 2.

Thank you so much for that! Coran's level is a bit strange. The PC only needs around 10,000exp for him to come at level 5/5 and a total of 30,000 something exp. I was a bit shocked when that happened, but now I get why!

Metal_Hurlant

Luthore said:

All NPCs still should be following a level scaling similar to the one in the link I posted earlier.

The NPCs are not following what they were in the original game. For instance, when you pick up Khalid and Jaheira in BGEE, they're both at Level 1. In the original game, Jaheira was level 1 and Khalid was level 2. Simlar instances with Xan and Dynaheir, level 1 in BGEE and level 2 in the original game. It seems all the NPCs I've encountered so far start at level 1.

Dee

I'm noticing this too. I'm moving this thread over to the Bugs forum, since this definitely doesn't seem to be working as intended.

Luthore

Well it's a bug i definitely want to have in my game! haha

I dont think the level sets when you talk to them either. For example, my high level character leaving Candlekeep meets Imoen on the road while she wears studded leather. Whereas my level 1 PC finds her in just leather. This is before even initiating dialogue. I think the game locks the level in AFTER you've spoken to them, hence why Dorn is level 1 if your level 1 PC talked to him early on (Will have to test this out with various level characters talking to him and following through on the party join thing). I have a feeling the game checks your level when the map containing the specific NPC loads (This could be tested by using Shadowkeeper to actually change your actual level to something else and see how the game reacts). It would have been nice if the game just did an XP check on the player rather than check their level since you can easily modify your XP level in game with the console.

IMO the ideal situation should have been to generate all NPCs as level 1 equivalents and then when they join the party they get some value amount of the players experience points. For example 75% or something like that. Perhaps even different percentages for different PCs (Like if Jaheira should be a higher level than the PC to simulate being more "experienced" set her to 115% CHARNAME XP when she joins the party the first time). This would also resolve Dorn being level 1 when you first meet him as he will appropriately be bumped to a range near the PC. And this also allows the player to more fully control stat distribution of the NPCs (For example if I lack a trap finding thief in my party, I don't want the game to give me a hide in shadows/move silently thief, especially if I've got that need covered already).

The only issue i see with the "ideal" situation (outside of Beamdog contractual obligations to not change the core game, etc, etc) is that your NPC will probably be undergeared in the midgame range. This would not be a big deal for most classes except for the arcane casters who would be stuck with only a couple 1st level spells until you get scrolls.