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Unexpected Thaco penalty on weapons created by spells

VindsvalVindsval Member Posts: 15
edited January 2013 in Fixed
Current Behaviour :

Some weapons created by spells give a penalty to thaco :
ghoul touch gives a -1 to hit
polymorph self in gnoll form gives a -3 to hit
Phantom blade gives a -2 to hit (even if the description says the caster is considered proficient with the blade)

Meanwhile, shocking grasp gives a +4 to hit, but i believe it is the way touch attacks are implemented in ADD2

Expected Behaviour : These spells shouldn't give any penalty to thaco.
Post edited by Jalily on

Comments

  • MortiannaMortianna Member Posts: 1,356
    Current Behavior
    When my mage casts Ghoul Touch, she receives a 1 point penalty to her THACO (she has 11 STR). Oddly, when Eldoth casts the spell, he receives a 1 point bonus to his THACO. This is different than the game behavior of Ghoul Touch in BG2/ToB, which gives a bonus to the caster's THACO. The BG2/ToB version also no longer required the blunt weapon proficiency in order to use the spell without a "to hit" penalty (as was the problem in vanilla BG).

    Expected Behavior
    Ghoul Touch no longer gives a penalty to THACO. Ghoul Touch behaves in the same way as it did in BG2/ToB.

    (Chill Touch also lost its "to hit" bonus in BG:EE, but I haven't noticed anyone receiving THACO penalties with it.)

  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862
    Yeah, this is a real bug. Registering.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Avenger_teambg said:

    Yeah, this is a real bug. Registering.

    Great. BTW these spells should probably also be checked (I'm unsure of their current behaviour):
    chill touch, vampiric touch and the priest spells cause serious wounds, cause critical wounds, slay living.
  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862
    Of this list, only chill touch is buggy.
    Vampiric touch doesn't use created items.
    The rest (including harm), were correct.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Avenger_teambg said:

    Of this list, only chill touch is buggy.
    Vampiric touch doesn't use created items.
    The rest (including harm), were correct.

    Thanks, I'm still a bit confused, though, what proficiency (if any) do these touch spells use, or it always a fixed amount (e.g. +4 THAC0)? This is not very clear from the manual or in-game descriptions
  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862
    They should use the 'default' proficiency - 1 star.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Avenger_teambg said:

    They should use the 'default' proficiency - 1 star.

    Okay, but don't touch spells get a bonus to hit, +4 or +5 or something, so that the overall to hit is something like +4 for all classes? Can anyone confirm? Thanks

  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    edited December 2012
    @Avenger_teambg - BTW this thread (http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/201232#Comment_201232 ) lists lots more incorrect proficiencies and other issues with magically-created weapons, should I create a new bug report thread for this or continue here?
  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862
    @Oxford_Guy wait for next patch so we see clearly what's still remaining to be fixed.
    I think one doesn't have to set the item type to 'hand to hand' as @lunar mentioned in that other post.
    It is enough if the proficiency is set to 0 (Long sword is kinda misnomer, in the bg2 engine the bg1 legacy proficiencies are not used).
    I know Sol's orb isn't fixed yet.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Avenger_teambg said:

    @Oxford_Guy wait for next patch so we see clearly what's still remaining to be fixed.
    I think one doesn't have to set the item type to 'hand to hand' as @lunar mentioned in that other post.
    It is enough if the proficiency is set to 0 (Long sword is kinda misnomer, in the bg2 engine the bg1 legacy proficiencies are not used).
    I know Sol's orb isn't fixed yet.

    Okay, will wait to see what the next patch does, this is meant to be out today, right?

  • MortiannaMortianna Member Posts: 1,356
    Oxford_Guy said:

    Avenger_teambg said:

    They should use the 'default' proficiency - 1 star.

    Okay, but don't touch spells get a bonus to hit, +4 or +5 or something, so that the overall to hit is something like +4 for all classes? Can anyone confirm? Thanks

    It looks like Chill Touch gives a +5 to hit and Ghoul Touch gives +4. Since mages suffer a -5 penalty to hit when using non-proficient weapons (due to these spells being coded with the Club proficiency), this would explain the "non-existent" bonus and one point penalty to these spells, respectively.

    Lets hope this gets fixed in the next patch.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Avenger_teambg said:

    @Oxford_Guy wait for next patch so we see clearly what's still remaining to be fixed.
    I think one doesn't have to set the item type to 'hand to hand' as @lunar mentioned in that other post.
    It is enough if the proficiency is set to 0 (Long sword is kinda misnomer, in the bg2 engine the bg1 legacy proficiencies are not used).
    I know Sol's orb isn't fixed yet.

    Avenger_teambg said:

    @Oxford_Guy wait for next patch so we see clearly what's still remaining to be fixed.
    I think one doesn't have to set the item type to 'hand to hand' as @lunar mentioned in that other post.
    It is enough if the proficiency is set to 0 (Long sword is kinda misnomer, in the bg2 engine the bg1 legacy proficiencies are not used).
    I know Sol's orb isn't fixed yet.

    @Avenger_teambg - okay, it looks like many, but not all, of the touch spells/magically created weapons have been fixed in the new patch, but some problems remain (for details, see: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/203945#Comment_203945 ):

    Still Bugged:

    Ghoul Touch-still has club proficiency, bug. [would love this one to be fixed!]

    Searing Orb-still has dart proficiency, bug.

    Seeking Sword-still uses longsword proficiency, bug.

    Fixed:

    Chill Touch-fixed, proficiency set to 00 Large Sword, omitting non-proficiency penalty.

    Phantom Blade-fixed, proficiency set to 00 Large Sword, same as above

    Flame Blade-fixed, proficiency set to 00 Large Sword, same as above

    Spiritual Hammer-fixed (was it bugged, I thought it using hammer prof. was its speciality?) proficiency set to 00, this ignores weapon proficiencies now, before it used hammer prof.

    Cause Wounds, Slay living, Harm, Shocking Grasp-unchanged, they are still okay.
  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862
    about hammer, in tob we have this in its description: For the duration of the spell, the priest may use the magic weapon without a non-proficiency penalty.

    So, it is handled all the same as other created weapons no penalty, no bonus, except the hammer's to hit increases with every 6? level
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Avenger_teambg said:

    about hammer, in tob we have this in its description: For the duration of the spell, the priest may use the magic weapon without a non-proficiency penalty.

    So, it is handled all the same as other created weapons no penalty, no bonus, except the hammer's to hit increases with every 6? level

    @Avenger_teambg - thanks for the clarification, only the 3 spells I identified to fix now, good work! :-)
  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862
    I forgot ghoultouch, or somehow it fell between the patches. Fixing it too.
  • VindsvalVindsval Member Posts: 15
    edited December 2012
    Thanks a lot for the fixes and work in progress !

    But the special hallberd from the gnoll form is still giving non proficiency penalty . The other forms seems ok, though ;).

  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Avenger_teambg said:

    I forgot ghoultouch, or somehow it fell between the patches. Fixing it too.

    Excellent! :-)
  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862
    edited December 2012
    Also no one said anything about fireseed :D got it
    The special weapon is 'flind1'. If it doesn't work in this patch, maybe it will in the next one. It is fixed in my side for sure.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Avenger_teambg said:

    Also no one said anything about fireseed :D got it
    The special weapon is 'flind1'. If it doesn't work in this patch, maybe it will in the next one. It is fixed in my side for sure.

    Great job @Avenger_teambg I haven't used these spells much in the past, but will now! :-)
  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862
    merge with this: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/10843/unexpected-thaco-penalty-on-weapons-created-by-spells
  • Na_InisNa_Inis Member Posts: 1
    Re-awakening an old topic, I need to know if the Shillelagh spell is based on club/mace/or..? ....making a Shapeshifter/Fighter~
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