Crossbow To-Hit/Damage Modifier?

sab0t

what stat do crossbows use as their to hit and damage bonus?

I haven't played any BG game in awhile, and last I did was BG2, and I think I remember the damage being strength based, and I don't think I was ever sure about the attack bonus.

The descriptions in-game don't lend any information that might answer this for me, so I'm hoping someone here can.

Thank you in advance

valky

For to-hit they use Dexterity as missile-modifier, but they should not get any str-based damage bonus. Only x-bows with the 'mighty' attribute - which are non-existent in BG/BG2 receive a damage bonus based on the weapon and strength.
- a mighty heavy x-bow follows the rule as 2-handed weapon and receive 1.5x str as bonus
- a mighty light x-bow gets 1x damage bonus from str
(- a mighty hand-x-bow as per D&D receive 0.5x bonus from str)

Correct me if am wrong

Woo

I always thought pressing a trigger is pressing a trigger, +str bonus was like a house rule, I mean if you only have min str to pull the trigger, or max str, the trigger fires the same, how does your str effect velocity etc?

valky

Woo said:

I always thought pressing a trigger is pressing a trigger, +str bonus was like a house rule, I mean if you only have min str to pull the trigger, or max str, the trigger fires the same, how does your str effect velocity etc?

"Mighty" & "Composite" require a specific strength to use them, and usually can't be fired by a character, whose attribute is lower than the requirement. Like the material they are crafted from, it's sturdier and harder to use compared to a 'cheap' longbow or a simple crossbow. And as they also hit harder, they get a specific bonus from the user measured by the strength it requires to properly use them

Imagine a bow, which is fully spanned and only roughly half-spanned....which projectile does more damage^^ ? Or those nasty medieval x-bows, which requires a wind to even span them. I guess an Orc can do this without the wind but a Halfling not. So the latter can't use it.

Kinda...

sab0t

Ahh, thank you for clearing that up.

Woo said:

I always thought pressing a trigger is pressing a trigger, +str bonus was like a house rule, I mean if you only have min str to pull the trigger, or max str, the trigger fires the same, how does your str effect velocity etc?

I think the strength for damage has in mind how much "farther" you can wind the crossbow, perhaps? I'm not sure how that even works, but its my guess.

Woo

valky said:

Woo said:

I always thought pressing a trigger is pressing a trigger, +str bonus was like a house rule, I mean if you only have min str to pull the trigger, or max str, the trigger fires the same, how does your str effect velocity etc?

"Mighty" & "Composite" require a specific strength to use them, and usually can't be fired by a character, whose attribute is lower than the requirement. Like the material they are crafted from, it's sturdier and harder to use compared to a 'cheap' longbow or a simple crossbow. And as they also hit harder, they get a specific bonus from the user measured by the strength it requires to properly use them

Imagine a bow, which is fully spanned and only roughly half-spanned....which projectile does more damage^^ ? Or those nasty medieval x-bows, which requires a wind to even span them. I guess an Orc can do this without the wind but a Halfling not. So the latter can't use it.

Kinda...

Bows and crossbows are completely different, it takes strength to pull a BOW STRING, but with CROSSBOWS theres a crank, its wind up, clockwork, the strength requirement to use a crossbow is because they are heavy, bulky, unwieldy devices. strength has nothing to do with the mechanical components of a crossbow, which is what fires the projectile, the crank either is maxed and fire properly, doesn't reach max tension and doesn't fire, or you break it essentially tuning a guitar string too tight, again no strength needed.
Strength does however measure how far you can pull a BOW string back, thus causing more distance/force.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossbow

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bow_and_arrow

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composite_bow = pully system to require less strength on the pull.

and if you look at "Mighty" crossbows in D&D they have have massive strength requirements because they are basically hand held ballistas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballista

valky

Ah thanks for clarifying it, wasn't sure about the x-bows and haven't checked the rules, only my leftover knowledge from earlier days

But: "the crank either is maxed and fire properly, doesn't reach max tension and doesn't fire" -> isn't it just a measurement of strength, as a user with mediocre strength (ie mage) can never fully wind the mighty x-bow, but can use a normal x-bow, which have lower str-requirement.

ZanathKariashi

Dex bonus affects to hit for all ranged attacks.

2nd edition crossbows NEVER apply str bonus. They do however apply magic enhancement bonus's to both hit/damage + additional damage from the X-bow itself. Heavy cross bows already provide higher base damage then light ones to account for their higher minimum strength requirements. The crank can only be turned so far, so additional str has no baring to their damage at all.

(Though if you think about it, a stronger person could turn the crank with less effort and thus reload faster, so...possibly add an extra attack or 1/2 attack if your str is 50% higher then minimum requirement maybe? No real basis for that though, beyond an observation)

Bows on the other hand are supposed to apply str damage bonus up to a max of +2 (plain 18) for short/long bow, or any str damage bonus (fighter bonus and above) for composite bows, BUT they are NOT supposed to get their magic enhancement bonus to damage, only to hit. The reasoning is, short and longbows just a single piece of wood basically, and while stronger people could get greater damage to a point, their structure can only take so much pull force. Composite bows on the other hand, due to their reinforced composite nature can take even further pull strength without risk of snapping the bow.

Darts, thrown axes/daggers all get full str bonus, and any enhancement to both hit/damage.

Slings apply any str bonus to damage but don't apply their magic enhancement bonus to damage, only to hit.

This is from the 2nd ed handbook (which BG is based on). Baldur's Gate 1 (original) followed it pretty closely, except bows, which they allowed any str bonus AND applied enhancement bonus to damage.

sab0t

thanks for the elaboration! I'm not sure where I got it in my head that Str was applied...

Woo

I know when I played paper and pencil D&D we allowed it as a house rule, also made some crappy common healing items that didn't exist in early second edition to allowed players to take more damage without DM being cruel and killing people. Maybe something similar?

Avenger_teambg

I think this isn't a bug. xbows were intentionally left without strength bonus.

valky

same; they get hard-coded damage-bonus, ie Giant Hair crossbow. Requires 'only' 15 strength to use, but gets +5 damage to missile and is only a +3 weapon, so +2 from having 14/15 STR; though it'd be +3 as I'd consider it a heavy x-bow.
But then again, x-bow rules in iwd/bg up to NWN2+ are very very fishy.

sab0t

I'd just like to mention I did not intend to post this in "Bugs", I am unfamiliar with this forum structure and must have posted in the wrong section.

valky said:

But then again, x-bow rules in iwd/bg up to NWN2+ are very very fishy.

can you elaborate a bit on that?

TJ_Hooker

valky said:

same; they get hard-coded damage-bonus, ie Giant Hair crossbow. Requires 'only' 15 strength to use, but gets +5 damage to missile and is only a +3 weapon, so +2 from having 14/15 STR; though it'd be +3 as I'd consider it a heavy x-bow.
But then again, x-bow rules in iwd/bg up to NWN2+ are very very fishy.

Giant Hair Crossbow is a heavy crossbow, which by default get +2 to damage in BG 1&2.

ZanathKariashi

And you don't get a strength bonus to damage in 2nd edition till 16 (+1) or 18 (total, +2)