Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Axis & Allies 1942 Online is now available in Early Access! Buy it on Steam. The FAQ is available.
New Premium Module: Tyrants of the Moonsea! Read More
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

How to fix the Interface

Because, frankly, it needs a little work. I've sent Minsc into a group of Kolbolds in Nahkel mines one too many times when all I was trying to do is move the map around. Have two very different actions linked to the same control is...ambiguous at best. To top it off, I can't pause it quickly to fix it when I make a mistake. Minsc, thus far, has been doomed!

(Though, before I whine any more, might I say, the game is fantastic overall. Seriously, to do this well porting to the iPad is immense! I'm just hoping to help improve things.)

How to fix it:
1) Moving the map around should be a 3-fingered swipe action-- I put three fingers on the screen, I move the map around. I use 1 finger, I move a character. I think people should take to it, it's the way a lot of graphic editing programs work on iPad. Besides, people can always be taught.
2) Double tap to auto pause-- That way, no matter where I am tapping, I can quickly pause the game. This would be immensely useful since I don't have access to my long abused space bar...

Touch pads make for some unique challenges for RPGs. But the way I see it, if BG can fix it, others can follow. Maybe we'll see more hardcore games on the iPad at that point :-).

And again, to try and avoid sounding like a huge whiner, you've done a great job so far guys, loving the product. Keep up the good work!

davemo
«1

Comments

  • BigityBigity Member Posts: 98
    No. I don't want a 3 fingered swipe, because I use a stylus.

    Double tapping I can see, as long as you are double tapping off of any objects/characters.

  • Space_hamsterSpace_hamster Member Posts: 950
    One solution; If you turn on more of the auto-pause warnings, it would pause the game with enemies spotted and prevent situations like Minsc wondering right into them.

  • iKrivetkoiKrivetko Member Posts: 934
    edited December 2012
    Well, pause does deserve a separate gesture of its own. Not double tap, however - that is a rubbish idea.
    A two-finger tap should work fine.

    The problem with scrolling the map and moving most probably exists because the action is registered when the touch event starts, rather than when it ends. If that is the case, fixing it should be really simple.

  • BytebrainBytebrain Member Posts: 602
    I think the OP has a point, the iPad is made for multi touch, and stylus is fine, but should not prevent better design.

    The issue, I think, could be prevented if they made the drag function less sensitive. It's like dragging on ice. Lots of games and apps have a lot less sensitivity.

    Double tap for pause, three finger, two finger and single touch is great solutions to simplify things in the game.

    Stylus is an option and not the norm on the iPad.

    muswellbrookoldsch00lJayCarr
  • BytebrainBytebrain Member Posts: 602
    To clarify, the hardships people have with targeting on the iPad is because the sensitivity of the "drag screen" function is so high. Sometimes when targeting, the screen "wobbles" (is that a word?) under my finger...

  • ScottYelichScottYelich Member Posts: 6
    It's pretty clear that the interface is just a minimally hacked up PC (ie: mouse) interface. What we need is an interface "re-imagined" :-) If we can't get that, then perhaps some modifiers vs overloading (ie: no single tap for move and tap+scroll to scroll [and sometimes get a move]).

    Seems pretty simple to add some pop-up or always-on options for things like "select multiple chars" (which ctrl-click on a mac) -- I want to do simple things (*GRIN*) like (1) select formation editor, tap tap tap+drag already tapped to move, double tap to erase, then save -- and have my own formation -- this would go along way since we don't see to have any (2) sane AI for things like auto-attack w/ handed-to-hand, auto-attack w/ ranged, auto heal, defend/attack/hide(avoid)/etc . (3) modifier key so I can tap loc1, tap loc2 tap lo3 and set waypoints (4) when doing 3 (or even a single move-to-point) drop a second finger to rotate the party formation .. and be able to keep tapping to set more waypoints. Would get great to set waypoints on individual chars as well as whole party. Mostly, I'd just like to be able to adjust the contrast, brightness and be able to keep the zoom past 1.5 (why now allow some more range, 2x more out, 3x more "in" -- yes, the graphics are dated and blurry as all hell, but doesn't matter)

  • BytebrainBytebrain Member Posts: 602
    edited December 2012

    It's pretty clear that the interface is just a minimally hacked up PC (ie: mouse) interface. What we need is an interface "re-imagined" :-) If we can't get that, then perhaps some modifiers vs overloading (ie: no single tap for move and tap+scroll to scroll [and sometimes get a move]).

    Seems pretty simple to add some pop-up or always-on options for things like "select multiple chars" (which ctrl-click on a mac) -- I want to do simple things (*GRIN*) like (1) select formation editor, tap tap tap+drag already tapped to move, double tap to erase, then save -- and have my own formation -- this would go along way since we don't see to have any (2) sane AI for things like auto-attack w/ handed-to-hand, auto-attack w/ ranged, auto heal, defend/attack/hide(avoid)/etc . (3) modifier key so I can tap loc1, tap loc2 tap lo3 and set waypoints (4) when doing 3 (or even a single move-to-point) drop a second finger to rotate the party formation .. and be able to keep tapping to set more waypoints. Would get great to set waypoints on individual chars as well as whole party. Mostly, I'd just like to be able to adjust the contrast, brightness and be able to keep the zoom past 1.5 (why now allow some more range, 2x more out, 3x more "in" -- yes, the graphics are dated and blurry as all hell, but doesn't matter)

    Hmm....
    I'm sorry, but most of this didn't make any sense to me... Maybe if you'd not had it in a wall of text, it would have , I don't know... :-)

    Regarding the contrast and brightness I think that would be cool, but I've never seen that in an iOS app or game, maybe it's something Apple restricts to their Options menu?

    I'm fine with the zoom personally, father out would be overkill on a tablet IMO.

    For me, my biggest disappointment is that they haven't utilized the unique advantages of the iPad, namely multitouch.
    They could have used multi fingered tap and multi fingered drag to different functions.

    They could have used a simple "swipe" over the bottom bar to show all tooltips etc.

    They could have had used double tap on spells to see detailed descriptions in the Spellbooks instead of the slow tap&hold.

    In the journal, they could have had one finger scroll as it is now, and a double tap to go into edit mode.

    There's so many, many things they could have done to make the interface easier and more intuitive on the iPad, without having to change the GUI at all.

    I think they should have consulted with someone used to programming for touch screen devices for some advice on this one, because they've been blind to most of the advantages of the iPad as a whole.

    muswellbrookpopo
  • iKrivetkoiKrivetko Member Posts: 934
    Bytebrain said:


    There's so many, many things they could have done to make the interface easier and more intuitive on the iPad, without having to change the GUI at all.

    I think they should have consulted with someone used to programming for touch screen devices for some advice on this one, because they've been blind to most of the advantages of the iPad as a whole.

    Couldn't have said it better. It seems that they've spent so much time enhancing the code, that they've utterly forgotten to enhance the gameplay. A shame, but nothing unfixable.

    muswellbrookpopo
  • muswellbrookmuswellbrook Member Posts: 12
    edited December 2012
    Bytebrain is right. iPad version needs to exploit multitouch and gestures. Likewise the OSX version will benefit as well. Is there a feature request we can make?

  • JayCarrJayCarr Member Posts: 8
    Perhaps the better overall solution would be to have a short list of multi touch gestures that could be assigned to different actions and simply let the user picks. There really isn't much need to have a uniform set up on a multitouch device. I've clearly stated my preference, but why should I be the only one to have my way?

    davemo
  • davemodavemo Member Posts: 147
    I love the configurable gestures option. I would like to see two fingers for scroll. Still, it does seem odd that the game as such a problem differentiating between click and drag. Seems lake those should be sufficient. This is my only app that has problems differentiating. It has yet to affect game outcomes for me, but it is annoying.

  • JayCarrJayCarr Member Posts: 8
    edited December 2012
    In principle I agree, but my general theory on interfaces is that you should avoid any kind of ambiguous input because you're only asking for trouble when you have it.

    But yeah, being allowed to choose your input is likely the best option because different people are going to have differ net experiences with with other apps and, thus, different expectations.

  • JayCarrJayCarr Member Posts: 8
    In principle I agree, but my general theory on interfaces is that you should avoid any kind of ambiguous input because you're only asking for trouble when you have it.

    But yeah, being allowed to choose your input is likely the best option because different people are going to have different experiences with with other apps and, thus, different expectations.

  • popopopo Member Posts: 13
    Other major issues with the touch interface are the lack of audio/visual feedback on taps and the lack of tooltips.

    Tooltips are an important part of the interface and they're not something that you can just remove without significantly changing the gameplay. The tooltip popup becomes increasingly important as you survey your inventory. Strangely, there's still a "tooltip delay" setting in the Settings area, which is strange as the iPad version doesn't use tooltip delays.

    Regarding A/V feedback -- once a character selects an action and a target, there needs to be a confirmation that the target is "set". On the PC version this is less necessary because the mouse click tends to be extremely accurate. But on the touch version, you frequently "think" you've targeted an enemy, only to later watch your character walk over to the point you selected instead of target the enemy you selected.

    Another issue is the general touch-targeting of all things: Enemies, item-drops, chests, etc. How many times must I false-target the wrong thing? This is an extremely frustrating interface and it's very clear that this was not effectively play-tested.

    Overhaul has done a really amateur job on the iPad version IMHO. This is one of the greatest games of all times, but the "enhancements" done by overhaul are really not professional level.

    I've stopped playing at this point. I hope there's an update. But frankly I'm not optimistic, as they spent an enormous amount of time (and likely money) to produce something that is amateurish at best. $10 is a ridiculous price for something so unpolished.

  • CerevantCerevant Member Posts: 2,311
    I'm a little confused, but I don't have an iPad to try this out...

    In the PC version, in combat, when you click on a character then click on the target, the circle at the target's feet becomes 4 inward pointing arrows, indicating that monster is targeted. If you just click on a character, you can look at the foot circles to see who that character is targeting.

    I can't see why they would strip this functionality out of the iPad version - can someone confirm for me if it works on the iPad as I describe?

  • BytebrainBytebrain Member Posts: 602
    @Cerevant
    It does when you're NOT using pause, but when you're using pause on the iPad edition it doesn't show the target indicator. That's the problem....

    davemo
  • CerevantCerevant Member Posts: 2,311
    Well, that's surprising. So are there foot circles at all when paused, or do they just disappear?

  • BytebrainBytebrain Member Posts: 602
    Just round circles, no target indicators of the kind you described, though they appear when pause is off.

  • CerevantCerevant Member Posts: 2,311
    Well, hopefully that's an easy fix. I can't think of why it would be behaving that way...

  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 1,933
    To be fair, that is exactly how it works in the PC version (the target circle doesn't change while paused, only once the clock is running). So this isn't an issue of introducing a flaw, but rather making a change that will help on a touch screen.

    I've been playing it quite a bit. As I've grown used to the eccentricities they bother me less. I can even navigate doorways and target opponents pretty consistently on the first try now. But the learning curve was too long and the input is still too erratic. It needs some tweaking.

    davemo
  • IllydthIllydth Member, Developer Posts: 1,641
    edited December 2012
    popo said:


    Another issue is the general touch-targeting of all things: Enemies, item-drops, chests, etc. How many times must I false-target the wrong thing? This is an extremely frustrating interface and it's very clear that this was not effectively play-tested.

    Overhaul has done a really amateur job on the iPad version IMHO. This is one of the greatest games of all times, but the "enhancements" done by overhaul are really not professional level.

    I've stopped playing at this point. I hope there's an update. But frankly I'm not optimistic, as they spent an enormous amount of time (and likely money) to produce something that is amateurish at best. $10 is a ridiculous price for something so unpolished.

    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/11786/know-bugs-and-issues-with-bgee-ipad

    Last post by Trent.

    They could have charged you 20, which is what the PC game is worth.

    As to the rest of the comments: feel free to go find another game if this is so amateurishly done. It's not as if MULTIPLE threads and posts in this forum from the moment the game was released weren't utterly clear that the interface could use some work. If you purchased it not knowing / researching this, that becomes your fault. If you purchased anyway despite what the commentary was suggesting, that, also, becomes your fault. Have a little bit of patience and you'll find a well working game, I have no doubt.

    It's also not as if it's not UTTERLY clear that the game is both more than playable and useable in it's current form. It certainly could use being better, but that doesn't make the game either "unplayable" or "amateurish".

    Nor does it make your comments either useful or worth while.

    --Illydth

    BytebrainatcDavemuswellbrookdavemo
  • iKrivetkoiKrivetko Member Posts: 934
    Well, it might be called amateurish and whatever else you want to call it, but 10 bucks is a negligible sum to pay for the only rpg on the iPad. Pioneering is never easy, especially when you have 4 other platforms to deal with.

    davemo
  • Great_PalinGreat_Palin Member Posts: 8
    This comment is neither useful or worth while:

    feel free to go find another game

    Nice victim blaming you have there. IMO, the game is not ready on the ipad. There are some seriously broken bits that should have been fixed long before it was available for purchase. It should not be the end user's job to hunt through forums trying to discern whether or not a game is finished and ready to play. I'm not playing anymore either, hoping that these issues will be addressed in future releases.

  • Garrison64Garrison64 Member Posts: 72
    I'm playing just fine on the iPad. Saying it isn't ready is simply not true. It could use a tweak here and there, which I understand they are working on, but even without that it plays just fine. No port like this comes without a few bugs and glitches to be found by end users. I don't understand why people always expect perfection with these things.

    davemo
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 1,933
    I agree 100% Garrison. There are some issues related to the port; but it works! It's BG on the iPad! It will be refined by later updates, and I look forward to that. But in the meantime, I have a fully functional complete game of Baldur's Gate I can play anywhere.

    My wife, who is not a gamer, saw me playing on the iPad the other day and said she thought it looked great, better than the original. That's probably just because its on a smaller screen, and isn't pixilated like on my big screen at home. But my point is, a casual observer taking a glance at the game was very favorably impressed.

  • IllydthIllydth Member, Developer Posts: 1,641

    This comment is neither useful or worth while:

    feel free to go find another game

    Nice victim blaming you have there. IMO, the game is not ready on the ipad. There are some seriously broken bits that should have been fixed long before it was available for purchase. It should not be the end user's job to hunt through forums trying to discern whether or not a game is finished and ready to play. I'm not playing anymore either, hoping that these issues will be addressed in future releases.

    Everyone's definition of "ready" is different Palin. HOWEVER what wasn't at question were the number of iPad users that were, basically, demanding the game be released. The game is mostly stable, it's interface does work, with drawbacks and issues, and the game is playable to a VERY significant degree.

    Could it have been released at a later time with fewer issues? ABSOLUTELY. Would they have avoided a black eye doing so? Hell no.

    Look through the forum posts from the 28th through last friday...you'll see the rabidness of many posters on the boards here all but demanding Beamdog get off their asses and release the software. NOW they've got the rest of the rabid posters screaming about how unprofessional the release is.

    "RELEASE IT NOW AND MAKE IT PERFECT!!"

    I said it to those who were posting through Friday and I'm saying to all posting now.

    Get a grip. The game is more than playable. The stuff that's not up to snuff will be fixed (check the threads someone's already been told that a patch for the iPad will be out in the near future).

    If you want a perfect release on a piece of software don't download it less than a week after it's first version hits the stores. Wait for 2 patches, then start playing. Nothing in the software or game industry is perfect in it's first launch. Not from companies like Bethsheda or Blizzard and not from companies like Beamdog.

    Deal with it.

    muswellbrookplan9audavemo
  • BG2BG2 Member Posts: 19
    iKrivetko said:

    Well, it might be called amateurish and whatever else you want to call it, but 10 bucks is a negligible sum to pay for the only rpg on the iPad. Pioneering is never easy, especially when you have 4 other platforms to deal with.

    Please, there are plenty of other RPGs on iOS. For starters try Spiderweb's offerings.

  • IllydthIllydth Member, Developer Posts: 1,641
    edited December 2012
    Taking the first app from Spiderweb (Avadon: The Black Fortress) as an example (since you brought up Spiderweb's offerings).

    Looks like the first version they release was on June 17th...and the first patch (1.0.1) came out July 20th...33 days later. What you're comparing to right now (version 1.0.4) came out November 29th, 2012...somewhere around what? 7 months?

    7 months from now I give everyone the right to call this game amaturish if they so care to.

    I also guarantee that the first version of Avadon: The Black Fortress didn't have the following or popularity (read demands from the community and pressure from both the community and stakeholders) as this software did.

    (And since we're on the topic, not to make disparaging remarks about other developers, but why do all three of their games look IDENTICAL to each other?)

  • JayCarrJayCarr Member Posts: 8
    edited December 2012
    Everyone: I started this thread to draw attention to possible areas for improvement to the interface. If you are not discussing this issue I cordially invite you to take your conversation elsewhere. This is not supposed to be a debate over the definition of the word "complete" nor a philosophical discussion of how said definition may or may not effect your personal fulfillment.

    Please stay on topic.

Sign In or Register to comment.