Tazok and the look of half-ogres in BG:EE

RedGuard

Just wondering. Since BG:EE is in the BG2 engine, but Tazok seems to resemble his BG1 self as opposed to his BG2 self. Should we expect him to look the same in BG2:EE or will we see his BG2 self?

Also, is it possible to override Tazok's file (or half-ogres in general) to get the BG2 animation instead? I kinda prefer that one over the BG1 version.

Madhax

I don't know the ins and outs of what these races are "supposed" to look like officially, but Tazok would appear to look like an Orog in the BG2 screenshot. Regardless, I'd just as soon they take him out of BG2 altogether and replace him with a nameless lackey. It's not like he contributes to the BG2 storyline, and it doesn't make any sense to find him there for obvious reasons.

RedGuard

I can't really tell with the face (sadly, this was the best shot I could get of BG2 Tazok), but the only real similarity I can see to the Orog (Chieftain DigDag) in the picture is they both have arm guards of a sort.

GoodSteve

No, Tazok uses the Orog model in BG2 which is something that has always irked me. I also don't see why he was added into the second game at all. Makes no sense whatsoever. They couldn't include a cameo by Kivan or Yeslick or someone like that but they bring back Tazok and turn him into an Orog? DAFUQ?!

colonel_burger

I always viewed it as him being made more twisted and gigantic by firkraag after his resurrection. But yes, sloppy mcslopslop.

ZanathKariashi

He does say that Firkraag had made him more powerful, so it's very plausible.

GoodSteve

He made him more powerful by changing his race completely? DAFUQ?!

Charname: "Hey Imoen, sorry you ate that lightning bolt from Davaeorn but we got a raise dead spell cast and you're back now! Oh yeah, the priest said if we threw in a couple extra gold he could raise you as an Ogre too! Now you backstab better than Shar-Teel!"

Imoen: "ME WILL CRUSH YOU! CRUSH YOU TO GOO!!!"

Silverstar

GoodSteve said:

"ME WILL CRUSH YOU! CRUSH YOU TO GOO!!!"

I swear I've always thought they said "two". Which doesn't make sense. You could slash someone into two, I always just figured ogres are dumb and got smash and slash mixed up. I should start reading the subtitles for "monsters" too, heh.

EnterHaerDalis

How the hell do you post pictures on this forum

Madhax

I forget who DigDag is, but I know that the model Tazok is using in BG2 is the same for the Orog Chieftans in the IWD games. So either that's the orog model, or the IWD games have been using a half-ogre model for their orogs.

I lack the D&D background to determine which is correct, and I have no idea what an orog is supposed to be anyway.

GoodSteve

Orogs were, back in the days of 2E, a mixed breed of Orcs and Ogres. This was retconned in 3.5+ and they became just an Underdark specific offshoot of Orcs.

ZanathKariashi

Well..technically speaking, getting Imoen raised as an ogre would be cheaper then a normal raise dead. Reincarnate is only about 1/2 the cost of what a raise spell is (and is a mage spell in 2nd edition, so a arcane spellcaster like Firkraag would have it), but the form they return in is random. (it also avoids nearly all the disadvantages that raise spells normally have except that the window to be raised by it is the shortest, just a few days).

Orog's are Half orc, half ogres, that primarily live in the Underdark, but do turn up else where. On the other hand, it's actually possible Tazok was meant to be an orog and BG1 didn't have a model or it. He is much smarter then your average ogre, which Orog's are actually more intelligent on average then orcs OR ogres.

Madhax

ZanathKariashi said:

Well..technically speaking, getting Imoen raised as an ogre would be cheaper then a normal raise dead. Reincarnate is only about 1/2 the cost of what a raise spell is (and is a mage spell in 2nd edition, so a arcane spellcaster like Firkraag would have it), but the form they return in is random. (it also avoids nearly all the disadvantages that raise spells normally have except that the window to be raised by it is the shortest, just a few days).

Hah, wow. Not being a PnP player, I kinda wish some of the more out-there spells like this had made it into BG and the like for me to mess around with.

GoodSteve

ZanathKariashi said:

Well..technically speaking, getting Imoen raised as an ogre would be cheaper then a normal raise dead. Reincarnate is only about 1/2 the cost of what a raise spell is (and is a mage spell in 2nd edition, so a arcane spellcaster like Firkraag would have it), but the form they return in is random. (it also avoids nearly all the disadvantages that raise spells normally have except that the window to be raised by it is the shortest, just a few days).

Orog's are Half orc, half ogres, that primarily live in the Underdark, but do turn up else where. On the other hand, it's actually possible Tazok was meant to be an orog and BG1 didn't have a model or it. He is much smarter then your average ogre, which Orog's are actually more intelligent on average then orcs OR ogres.

I am fairly confident that they refer to Tazok specifically as a Half-Ogre in BG.

Does the 2E reincarnate spell have a table of possible forms that the recipient comes back as? The one in 3.5 does and Orog is definitely not among them.

ZanathKariashi

Orog is, it's 100, GM's decision.

And an Orog is technically a Half-ogre...they could've just never specified/known the other half.

The 2nd edition version kind of sucks though. While you're guaranteed to get a playable character of...reasonable intelligence and ability...only PC races get class levels (which are randomly chosen when reincarnated based on your newly rolled racially adjusted stats (though you keep your largest xp total). Monstrous humanoids start with the base hit-dice and average stats of their race, though unlike most monsters, can improve their hit-dice with experience (the handbook mentions this but doesn't include an xp-table for HD level ups, still looking for one)

D100 Roll Incarnation - 2nd Edition
01-05 Bugbear
06-11 Dwarf
12-18 Elf
19-23 Gnoll
24-28 Gnome
29-33 Goblin
34-40 Half-elf
41-47 Halfling
48-54 Half-orc
55-59 Hobgoblin
60-73 Human
74-79 Kobold
80-85 Orc
86-90 Ogre
91-95 Ogre mage
96-99 Troll
00 - DM's Choice

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Aasimar069

BG1 Tazok shall keep his look, since he looks like this in BG1.

BG2 Tazok shall keep his look since he looks like this in BG2.


Thanks ;-)

RedGuard

So does anyone actually know if it's possible for me to override this in BG:EE and switch in his BG2 self if I wished?

Dee

It shouldn't be difficult. You can probably do it with NearInfinity, in fact; just edit the file's chosen animation.