So do most of you use the kits?
chickenhed
Member Posts: 208
Let me explain. I always believed that kits, in many ways, represented the new 3.0 prestige classes that were coming out at the time. I love kits! They ad flavour to the game and allow special abilities for being a pure class (which brings me to another topic. I never liked that you could dual kits. Sorry. I just don't. Having the kit IS the flavour! But I digress).
However, like prestiege classes, I never felt it was "right" to be able to play a kit from the get go. I always liked the idea of DEVELOPING into the kit, which is why I thought it was perfect that the kits got introduced in BG2. By that time, for example, I am such an awesomely awesome paladin that I can become a Cavalier! Or I have developed a hatred for the undead, so undead hunter it is! You get the idea.
For BG:EE, as much as I love it, I actually do not choose kit from the get go. If, again for example, I want to play an Undead Hunter, I will start as a paladin in BG1 (BGT or BG:EE) and then I will change him to an undead hunter in BG2.
Anyone else play this way? Or am I one of the few.
However, like prestiege classes, I never felt it was "right" to be able to play a kit from the get go. I always liked the idea of DEVELOPING into the kit, which is why I thought it was perfect that the kits got introduced in BG2. By that time, for example, I am such an awesomely awesome paladin that I can become a Cavalier! Or I have developed a hatred for the undead, so undead hunter it is! You get the idea.
For BG:EE, as much as I love it, I actually do not choose kit from the get go. If, again for example, I want to play an Undead Hunter, I will start as a paladin in BG1 (BGT or BG:EE) and then I will change him to an undead hunter in BG2.
Anyone else play this way? Or am I one of the few.
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Comments
I also really like the kits mind you. Not a lot of classes I tend to play but I use Cavalier, Assassin and now also Blackguard. Main character's a Sorcerer though. I think more options is always a good thing, and the kits most certainly improved the game a lot in that regard. Dream game would have BG:EE's classes and ID2's races... and apparently the latter just might happen.
Following these principles , it helps the player roleplay a different kind of character , makes classes more versatile etc... and that's how Ilike to think - I play a kit because my character will roleplay that way.
They also work very well with the experience cap and let you be something that NPCs dont take advantage of (Other than Dorn ).
I guess I do not "roleplay" the character "on the screen". Rather, in effect, I play "the god" of the PC -- watching over them and protecting them.
In that sense, I create my own "kit" by how I define and develop my on screen PC (who, usually, is based on my real-life wife -- small, athletic, smart, and the center of my attention).
Actually, I "lead" her to do what I want -- we ballroom dance competitively. Poking is usually counter productive (except occasionally at night)
- Cleric: the choice is between 3 deities. Quite often the RP of the character I have created matches neither Lathander, Helm nor Thalos. However with Divine Remix on (mod), I then almost always go for a cleric kit.
- Bard: I feel the kits really change the use of the class. The Blade is very melee-oriented; both Jester and Skald will be busy most of the time using their harp at the back of the pack. When I want neither of those role-plays, I go for the plain Bard.
Finally there is another thing I have sometimes done in order to add flavor, especially in a solo playthrough: cheat and give from the start one special item to my PC (just like many NPC's enjoy them), such item fitting with the personality / RP behind the character. Without it being cheesy. Once I had even upgraded that special item twice throughout the saga, as the PC was getting more experienced (ie once at lvl.10 and again at lvl.20) ... was fun.
For example, Choose a Cleric of Lathander right off the bat makes sense to me. However, a Kensai, or an assassin, or a bounty hunter, or an archer, etc. Those ones, to me, are developed skills. I personally find it a bit more fun to NOT start right out of Candlekeep with those skills.
One more note, I AGREE that it's great to have the option to take kits at the beginning. At no point do I wish BG:EE did NOT have them. I was just talking about the way I personally play the game.
I also think that a part of the problem the OP is experiencing is that the kits all seem to be objectively BETTER than the straight class, instead of just a variant. The perks almost always outweigh the cons, and when they don't (*coughbeastmastercough*), people tend to just ignore that kit. If the pros and cons of the kit really seemed to balance each other out, I don't think it would feel like a "prestige class", and you'd feel less weird about taking the kit at level 1.
It would also feel less like a prestige class if multi-class characters could choose a kit, and/or if you could pick multiple kits for dual/multi-class characters (which would further emphasize that the kits are just a TYPE of that class, and not an exclusive special version of it).
I'm partial to the swashbuckler kit for thieves.
Specialist mages aren't really kits and I hate being locked out of any school or having wild surges so I leave my mages vanilla. Ideally though I'd like to see broader spells selections for every school so each specialty has alternatives for common used spells they may be locked out of.
I like the cavalier and inquisitor paladin kits and the archer ranger kit. The avenger druid kit is cool too.
how would you roleplayingly explain even the sole fact that your character became a paladin (even just an ordinary one) in candlekeep? pretty hard to wrap your head around that, right?
can be done sure, but never seemed right to me so i've never tried playing a paladin in BG.
or a barbarian??? how'd he become a barbarian in such a cultivated environment?
or a ranger, if you've been barely at all exposed to wilderness?
Personally, I have always thought class kits were fun. Back in school, when I played AD&D 2nd Edition, I loved the "Player's Option" series, especially "Skills and Powers." In fact, I just glanced at my bookshelf and there it is! This book contains several class kits, including the Animal Master, Assassin, Barbarian, Cavalier, Jester, Swashbuckler, and Weapon Master (Kensai). The rules specifically state that a character may only have one kit, and that it must be chosen at character creation (so no multiclasses with multiple kits, nor choosing a kit when dual-classing). However, the kits from "Skills and Powers" are much less mechanical than those in Baldur's Gate, with most of them only granting minor roleplaying abilities (Cavaliers only get a +2 bonus to saves against mind-affecting magic, for example).
Personally, I never thought that 3E's prestige classes really functioned as intended. I was never fond of the entire leveling system in 3E (I prefer systems where a character's class, and therefore play identity, is chosen from the start) and prestige classes just felt clunky. Many PrCs had nonsensical prerequisites that forced you to allocate resources in non-intuitive ways just to qualify, and many of them were so narrow and specific that you have to wonder why they even bothered to make a new class for what seemed like an individual character. Plus, when you set the precedent of making a unique prestige class for every possible specialty character, people start to expect it, and nobody pays much attention to the base classes anymore except as the starter class until I can enter my REAL class. That's not even getting into all the outrageous character optimization shenanigans you could achieve by mixing prestige class levels.
I much prefer kits, which allow you to customize your character to make it a novel play experience in terms of mechanics, while also providing inspiration to develop a rich backstory. I don't want to have to wait until level 6 to become an Assassin, I want to BE an Assassin right from the first play session!
I also think your idea of it being something you should develop IN to is interesting as well.
Nice post.
However, as this is pretty much a nostalgia trip/replay, I'm just treating EE as a "new game+" type thing where everything is unlocked from the get-go.
Sucks that there isn't enough experience for my Kensai to get grand mastery of Katana AND dual into a sorcerer, but it's nice to have a road map without being constrained.
Kits are definitely one of the best things about 2e, though, and if I'm single-classed I pretty much always use one.
I always enjoyed the variety of character options and class flavor represented in Baldur's Gate 2, and I have been having a blast playing a swashbuckler in BG:EE. The only multiclass character I ever consider playing seriously is a cleric/mage due to the enormous number of spells at your disposal, I would much rather have it all packed into a kit. In the case of swashbuckler, I don't have to jump through the hoops of being a fighter/thief. The bonuses aren't all the same, but I don't have to deal with split experience and I love the kit features, despite not being able to wear a helmet. =P
Of course, as it has been pointed out already, many classes don't even make any sense (a paladin or ranger raised in Candlekeep? Really?) storywise.
Gameplay wise however, the choice of class is a good thing.
The choice of kits at level one, on the other hand, is flawed both gameplay wise AND storywise.
Quite a few kits aren't balanced for the earlier levels.
Giving the player the opportunity to grow familiar with the basic class helps them making a good decision. The same counts for the old BG1 proficiency system, by the way (it is very user friendly to let the players choose "large swords" and leave them time to decide between long sword with shield and two-handed sword for example).
Most of us here are seasoned veterans and have played the game countless times. This game shouldn't be measured by our standards. Imagine you've just convinced a friend to try Baldur's Gate.
Would you seriously recommend them BGT, BGtutu or BG:EE on their first run (I'm talking about basic gameplay here, not about graphics and comfortable interface)? Think about it. Can you expect them to make a reasonable decision concerning kits and weapon proficiency?
I've just recently introduced my girlfriend to Baldur's Gate and am convinced that it was the right decision to advice her against BGT and BGtutu. Now that she is almost through the first game and has been able to experience all aspects of her class, she feels competent enough to choose a kit.
On the other hand, the veterans should have the opportunity to choose a kit right away at level one.
Perhaps there should be a warning during character creation, recommending new players to play the basic class first and decide later in BG2 (I really hope BG2:EE allows you to choose a kit if you haven't already in BG1:EE). On top of that, the BG1 weapon proficiency system would be ideal, but that is another topic altogether.
Originally, I took Swashbuckler on my Thief in BG 2 and that's just my favorite kit in the world.