[Request] Something along the lines of Level 1 NPCs
AndreaColombo
Member Posts: 5,530
Originally posted on /r/FriendsOfBaldursGate.
THE MOD:
There's a mod called Level 1 NPCs (link: http://www.gibberlings3.net/level1npcs/) that allows full personalization of each and every joinable NPC in the game. The idea is nice.
THE REQUEST:
BG:EE could allow players to customize joinable NPCs to an extent upon recruiting them. Each joinable NPC could start at level 1 and automatically level up to match the average party level (ToB-style) upon being recruited. This way, it would be up to the player to allocate weapon proficiencies, distribute thieving skill ranks, and pick known arcane spells.
I think it would be good to give this kind of flexibility to players: being able to hand pick proficiencies and abilities would enable players to tailor each character to the kind of party they're trying to build and/or the weapons they'd like to try (e.g. without having to ditch their favorite NPC because they lack the weapon proficiencies they need to test a weapon they never used in 20 times through the game).
THE MOD:
There's a mod called Level 1 NPCs (link: http://www.gibberlings3.net/level1npcs/) that allows full personalization of each and every joinable NPC in the game. The idea is nice.
THE REQUEST:
BG:EE could allow players to customize joinable NPCs to an extent upon recruiting them. Each joinable NPC could start at level 1 and automatically level up to match the average party level (ToB-style) upon being recruited. This way, it would be up to the player to allocate weapon proficiencies, distribute thieving skill ranks, and pick known arcane spells.
I think it would be good to give this kind of flexibility to players: being able to hand pick proficiencies and abilities would enable players to tailor each character to the kind of party they're trying to build and/or the weapons they'd like to try (e.g. without having to ditch their favorite NPC because they lack the weapon proficiencies they need to test a weapon they never used in 20 times through the game).
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Comments
Um, so, yeah. This is one of the best features I've found as a mod for a party-based cRPG. The mod Level1NPCs is very buggy and, as a mod, requires a complete game reinstallation for each use, so a quality alternative for BGEE would be far preferable. The NPCs are very fun to recruit, but they often just don't work for the party due to poor attributes, poor attribute or proficiency point distribution, or a class which doesn't match the party.
I recognize that taking NPCs as they are has some charm, but really this just ends up with players forgoing most NPCs for the stat-best. By opening this up for player tweaking, all NPCs in the game become viable. I also recognize that Andrea doesn't mention class changes, and changing, say, Minsc to a sorcerer, would make some NPC statements incongruous, but I still find the option enhancing to gameplay and fun for replay purposes since now the characters can be chosen by personality rather than class or attributes.
The other aspect to address would be the manner of implementation. Level1NPCs has you select all the changes to the NPCs at mod installation. (Hence the need for a new installation with each game.) There is also a method I've seen employed both in a mod and also in-game for Dragon Age whereby you make all the selections at the moment you recruit the party member. I have a feeling it's easier to implement the latter way since the former involves a lot of presumptions regarding proficiency point allotment given level, but then again if the NPC is supposed to be able to change from ranger to sorcerer, it's probably best to know ahead of time if they're supposed to have armor on and a two-handed sword when first encountered.
By default I think at the very least we should be able to allocate weapon proficiencies and thieving skills stat distribution.
Perhaps an advanced option would let us reroll the stats of the NPCs and let us change their classes. I think this would also be a nice feature because its a bit annoying that BGEE will have all the kits from BG2, but all the BG1 NPCs will only have basic classes. An option like this one would allow us to play with all the kits that we want and at the same time still have access to our favorite characters.
Suggestion: When a new NPC joins the party, consider including the option to select the NPC’s skills and/or spells, or simply choose “recommended”. Some of the proficiency points could or should be pre-allocated depending on the rigidity of the NPC’s role. If a player chooses “recommended”, the recommendations should be shown before finalizing.
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http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/118/request-something-along-the-lines-of-level-1-npcs#latest
I suppose it would be a cool feature as long as it's optional.
Personally I like realism. I don't find it realistic to be able to choose the skills of NPC's when having them join your party. It turns them into tools instead of individuals which isn't good for the roleplay factor. To me it makes no sense to say: I want you to be good at wielding X weapon and making them so instantly. But I guess it wouldn't kill anyone to add this as an optional thing, personally I wouldn't want to play like that.
So I guess I'm the same opinion of Kore, sarevok and jay
Yes, it's nice that you can now pick up an NPC later in the game and still feel like you control his effectiveness, but it also changes from "Lets invite this powerful warrior into our party" to "Let's invite this person into our party and use 2 minutes to change him into whatever I want".
On the other hand, aside from Thieves and Sorcerers, possibly fighters, the classes don't allow much customising while levelling. A weapon proficiency point here and there.
I'm perfectly fine with it being optional, default turned off.
What do you mean completely different?
When you recruit Khalid at level 1, he's got two points in Longsword. When you recruit him at level 4, he's got three. When you recruit him at level 7, he's got four.
Clearly, this destroys customisation and immersion, as well as ruining the character. He's basicly worthless, at level 7, statted like that, right?
IT WORKS LIKE THAT? OH SHIT.
So if you pick them up early, they stay weak?
Characters like Khalid or Coran and all others have their own abilities/stats and it's good like that !!!!! I can't believe that people want to change that
Besides - creating more PCs is not what makes the gae worthwhile because they don't have interjections and quests.
Without that tweak (which I have installed) I'd first need to visit every map that offers an NPC, take him, and dismiss him again (i.e. in the Friendly Arm Inn) to make sure I can later on choose his proficiencies. I think a simple manual levelup insteaf of auto-levelup would be a better solution.
But to insist that no one's game should benefit from the option is needlessly overbearing. And, mind you, this is and ought to be optional rather than "forced," as @Lunever suggests.
For me changing an NPC's stats and class does nothing to change Minsc's or Jaheira's or Viconia's personality, so it interrupts none of the game content itself. The incongruity between NPC dialogue and class choices just puts a twist on it, sometimes hilarious (like a Berserker Tiax), sometimes making the NPC more like their personality (like an assassin Montaran or Berserker Minsc), and often for multiple playthroughs- and with a plethora of NPCs to work with. It enables me to play a wildly new game using my favorite NPCs or using NPCs I simply wouldn't have used otherwise. I've never recruited a number of NPCs simply because their stats aren't as good or I already have (or am) the classes I need. That's fairly common for players, but it's clearly a loss of all the content worked into those NPCs. This option let's a player recruit who they would based on simply on interest, not static, constant, original NPC design choices. The option primarily appeals to veterans players who want to shake up their game, plan their recruitments ahead of time, try radically new things, even experiment with multiple new classes and kits at the same time without losing the fun of meeting the game's native NPCs. In short, this type of option enhances the game's replayability by large factors.
The other advantage to having the option in the game, of course, is not having to mod it in- which is great regardless, but in the case of the actual Level1NPCs mod you can't make changes other than once per game+mods install, so it's a major advantage to having it something you just toggle for each game start without having to reinstall ad nauseum. Plus the mod itself is quite buggy and conflictive- at least from my experience, even having worked with modder Miloch directly to get a hotfix to make Branwen changes work (though there are numerous other NPCs that remain buggy in the mod). So a bug-free, functional mod option for this in-game would be a dream for me. Oh, and I've had problems trying to change NPCs using Shadowkeeper before as well, so this option would avoid those snags as well.
The other aspect would be implementation method. Earlier I suggested what Lunever has been suggesting: when the option is toggled you would, upon recruiting an NPC, be taken to a CC area similar to the usual PC CC process that lets you build the character as you wish. I could see putting the vanilla values into the various CC tab screens but allowing you to change them, thereby also allowing you to know how much you're tweaking the NPC's parameters as you do. Despite my enthusiasm about the Level1NPCs mod, I prefer not changing the stats much, keeping the total points available constant and the top score consistent for whatever class the NPC is being changed to. But that's just how I play; on the attribute tab there could still be a random roll selection like usual, making it also an option for the player to randomize attributes somewhat.
Implementing it this way also enables the determination of generic class-based equipment allotments for each customized NPC upon recruitment- i.e., studded leather for rogues, no armor for monks or kensais. I'm not sure but possibly the avatar appearance could also be changed accordingly the same way it's changed during the PC CC process.
Not sure of the overall doability factor for the BGEE devs, but there would be many happy fans of it...
That proves to me, that my suggestion "lets keep the level 1 characters and then do a level-up" is a very good common ground for anyone not stuck on an extreme position.
Having the characters join at level 1 ToB-style is fine with me though.