Move silently usefull?

alaundo

Is the move silently skill usefull at all? I think for a thief only hide in shadows for backstabbing is usefull? Or do you need to invest points in move silently also?

Ravel

I've heard a number of things over the years about how Hide in Shadows and Move Silently interact with one another. Probably the best summary of stealth I've seen is from Volothamp's Comeuppance, which says:

A skill that enables the user to walk around, unseen and unheard. Only Thieves, Rangers, and Monks can Stealth, and their success depends on their Stealth rating (Thieves & Monks choose how many points per level to invest in the ability, while Rangers' Stealth is based solely on their level and Dexterity), and to some extent the amount of ambient light in the area (darker is better). It is only possible to enter Stealth mode while no hostile creatures are in your line of sight, although once you are in Stealth, you can walk around freely and remain unseen—as long as your luck holds. In BG1, there was only the one skill—Stealth—which in BG2 was broken up into the skills of Hide in Shadows and Move Silently. The way the game engine was set up created a bias that makes Move Silently far more important than Hide in Shadows (an imbalance that I find unfortunate): When you attempt to enter Stealth, the game takes your HiS and MS scores, averages them together, and compares that average with the result of a D100 roll (plus or minus any modifiers due to light conditions where you're standing). If you succeed, the game then continually checks to see how long you will remain hidden: The chance of staying concealed, the length of time that elapses between checks, and how long you will remain unseen after a failed check, all depend on your Move Silently score. One important benefit of this ability is that all Stealthed characters recieve a -4 THAC0 bonus; this affects only the hit they make while emerging from Stealth, of course, but it's still quite helpful.

While in Stealth, any action other than walking will cause the character to leave the shadows: Some actions merely "break Stealth," meaning you can quickly perform the action, move back out of sight range of any enemies, and drop back into Stealth again, without ever becoming visible. You will break Stealth if you pick a lock, open a door, attack a creature, or begin casting a spell, but you will still remain invisible for a time dictated by your Stealth or Move Silently score. Other actions, however, will cause you to immediately become visible; these include actually landing a hit on an enemy, finishing casting a spell that breaks Invisibility (pretty much all hostile spells do this), opening a container, or picking an object up off the ground.

A Thief's Stealth skill can be approximated, as I said, by Monks and Rangers, and also by several types of Illusion spells available to both Priests and Wizards.

It would be nice, though, to have some official word from the devs on exactly how these two stats interact with one another as there are a good number of different explanations out there.

alaundo

This is really good info thx! And yeah some offical words on the topic would be nice indeed. Seems i will at least even out the scores on Imoen for some backstabbing fun

Oxford_Guy

Thanks @Ravel - this is helpful, though it's still not absolutely clear how Move silently/Hide in Shadows are used, it would be very useful to get some official clarification on this

Wanderon

Thought I read someplace that stealth check in BG:EE was made by adding the two component skills together and dividing by 2 then using that number for the stealth skill

If so then 50 HIS and 30 MS would be the same as 40 in each.

Ooops - appears that info was already mentioned above...

Pecca

I've read somewhere that HiS determines the ability to hide and MS determines the ability to stay hidden.

Oh yes, here it is: http://www.supercheats.com/pc/walkthroughs/baldursgateiishadowsofamn-walkthrough01.txt

Don't know what to think though, it would be really nice to have some official info...

Wanderon

Well if it's true that the numbers are averaged to do the check to get stealthed and that MS is the number checked to see if you stay stealthed then you could focus your points on MS and leave HiS at the opening level until MiS is way up there.

marfig

Wanderon said:

Well if it's true that the numbers are averaged to do the check to get stealthed and that MS is the number checked to see if you stay stealthed then you could focus your points on MS and leave HiS at the opening level until MiS is way up there.

Indeed. This is usually the best strategy in BG1, if you wish to multiclass your thief, since there will be less points to distribute. It's also a good strategy for those thief kits which have a penalty to thief-like ability points.

MS at 90 + HiS at 10 = 50% chance to enter stealth-mode and 90% of maintaining it.

Since there will be hardly a time when you can't afford to keep hitting the stealth button until it succeeds, MS is the all powerful stealth skill in the game. HiS is largely irrelevant.

Oxford_Guy

marfig said:

Wanderon said:

Well if it's true that the numbers are averaged to do the check to get stealthed and that MS is the number checked to see if you stay stealthed then you could focus your points on MS and leave HiS at the opening level until MiS is way up there.

Indeed. This is usually the best strategy in BG1, if you wish to multiclass your thief, since there will be less points to distribute. It's also a good strategy for those thief kits which have a penalty to thief-like ability points.

MS at 90 + HiS at 10 = 50% chance to enter stealth-mode and 90% of maintaining it.

Since there will be hardly a time when you can't afford to keep hitting the stealth button until it succeeds, MS is the all powerful stealth skill in the game. HiS is largely irrelevant.

*if* this is how it actually works...

marfig

It has been confirmed to be how it works, @Oxford_Guy. Unfortunately never by the original developers, but by experimentation (which is as credible). http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/183/index/12667733/1#12882261

What remains to unknown is the effect of light (if any) on HiS.